Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Does anyone actually trust JR?

[Gurglesons]

Had to wait for the all out big move of Big Game Brass. Still wonder what happens if we got McDonagh like rumoured that deadline.

I don't particularly blame Rutherford for constantly going for it but it's not completely with hindsight that I think some years a less is more attitude to trading might have helped.

The issue is he played it both ways that summer. If you are going all out sign Bonino to a regrettable deal. Don’t try to permeate change than burn assets for the same type of piece. It’s like Kahun and Kapanen. Brassard + for McCann. There’s no logic here besides let’s swap in and out and hope it works.

In 2017 we waited to be the bridesmaid for Matt f***ing Cullen. Who was great here but was in the twilight of his career. And it was because we had Carter Rowney who could play 4C or something.

 

[Andy99]

Also, JR was “going for it” but he does it like a bull in a china shop when surgical precision is needed more...I don’t think he or Sullivan really have a coordinated, targeted plan or have a good handle on what type of players the team needs...it feels like he’s flying by the seat of his pants...why they both should have been fired and even now it’s likely a year too late...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Why are people saying the core didn't get it done the last three years? What am I missing? Crosby and Malkin were very good in 2017-18. 2018-19 was a toxic mess affecting everyone. This year they dealt with the worst run of injuries you can, were interrupted by a pandemic that prevented them from getting chemistry with new players and the team did not fit, and Malkin and Crosby were injured. I'm not excusing them from doing more, but the core not getting it done isn't the reason we lost the last three years.

Letang had a tragic Caps series, put up 1 total point agt both the Isles and Habs... Malkin has had all of two goals combined since the Caps series.

Crosby is really the only one who has played pretty well, and no one is worried about him being moved so.

 

[Peat]

The issue is he played it both ways that summer. If you are going all out sign Bonino to a regrettable deal.

Instead we waited to be the bridesmaid for Matt f***ing Cullen.

I suspect he didn't think Bonino was necessarily all out enough, particularly with a broken leg to recover from.

Tbh, I think he was in a bit of a damned if he did, damned if he didn't position then. Let players walk - not a lot to replace them with other than UFA overspending. Keep them - many of them have given their best. I guess that's where you make the case for trading the better support players but not so easy to do while trying to be all in.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

They were bad because they specifically flooded areas of our roster with talent while depriving others.

Rutherford’s lesson was we can win with mediocre D and he bought full in.. by signing mediocre D to full value contracts in Schultz and Hunwick. Smart move would have been to retain Hainsey on the cheap and let Schultz walk or traded him.

Or if you are keeping Schultz sell high on Olli or Cole.

I dunno. There's merit in trying to keep the most successful team of its era mostly together for a 3-peat run. I'm inclined to think 2018 was as much about bad luck as anything else.

JR's curious moves started piling up though, and then he was either spending a lot to correct them or outright ignoring them.

 

[Gurglesons]

I suspect he didn't think Bonino was necessarily all out enough, particularly with a broken leg to recover from.

Tbh, I think he was in a bit of a damned if he did, damned if he didn't position then. Let players walk - not a lot to replace them with other than UFA overspending. Keep them - many of them have given their best. I guess that's where you make the case for trading the better support players but not so easy to do while trying to be all in.

Well that’s the issue, like sign one of Dumo and Schultz and move the other. Olli was great for us in 2017 in the playoffs so we wouldn’t have assumed he couldn’t handle top four D minutes.

Move out Sheary as you had depth at RW and LW and Sprong and Simon who were close enough to being NHL ready.

I argued these points that summer. @Shady Machine and I consistently brought up the cost of what a center would cost in season. And we’ve seen it sadly play out exactly as we predicted.

 

[Gurglesons]

I dunno. There's merit in trying to keep the most successful team of its era together for a 3-peat run. I'm inclined to think 2018 was as much about bad luck as anything else.

JR's curious moves started piling up though, and then he was either spending a lot to correct them or outright ignoring them.

Then KEEP IT TOGETHER. That is my point. Hainsey was our second used D. Bonino our fifth used forward in 2017. He tried to play it both ways.

 

[Will Hunting]

Talking about playoff trends with Rust is not fair, that's my point. Different time and different role than now. These are completely different circumstances that we had this year so I don't know why would I have to judge him by Caps series. He proved that he can perform in the playoffs in the past. He has all the tools to do it again if you put him in the right role and his linemates care to show up (or the whole team cares to show up). Just scapegoating him seems very unfair to me. But yeah, I can change my tune next year but I am not there yet.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Then KEEP IT TOGETHER. That is my point. Hainsey was our second used D. Bonino our fifth used forward in 2017.

Hainsey was 36. I don't think anyone was wanting him to stick around for 3 mil per.

We didn't know how good we had it with Bones, even though he had a down year when we won.

I'd sure like him back.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hainsey was 36. I don't think anyone was wanting him to stick around for 3 mil per.

We didn't know how good we had it with Bones, even though he had a down year when we won.

I'd sure like him back.

Down year? He put up nearly 40 points and was playing ridiculous minutes in the playoffs.

We paid Hunwick relatively the same amount of money.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Why do people think it’s about scapegoating players?

I honestly don’t understand how some posters can bury their heads in the sand and ignore reality.

Letang is my favorite player and I know he’s been a big reason they have lost the last three playoffs series... being catastrophic agt the Caps and having little impact agt the Isles and Habs is what it is.

I’m not afraid to face that.

What dynamic is changing this season if they are all back together again, that will suddenly bring different results than the last three years?

I don’t see the logic that people expect different results by keep things the same...

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

6m is more than I'd have expected for just RFA years.

It's also a pretty hard can't afford.

I think they'd go 6ish in normal times due to his resume but that would probably be adjusted down due to the plague ramifications. Maybe 5.25 or so.

I have no idea what Jarry will get. Either way, we can't afford both guys. Even if we cleared cap and fit them in, I think it would be a very poor use of money. Fun thought but not feasible. In my mind, even though I hate it, our best move is probably to just suck it up and move Murray for whatever we can get.

 

[Will Hunting]

Why do people think it’s about scapegoating players?

I honestly don’t understand how some posters can bury their heads in the sand and ignore reality.

Letang is my favorite player and I know he’s been a big reason they have lost the last three playoffs series... being catastrophic agt the Caps and having little impact agt the Isles and Habs is what it is.

I’m not afraid to face that.

What dynamic is changing this season if they are all back together again, that will suddenly bring different results than the last three years?

I don’t see the logic that people expect different results by keep things the same...

I see your point. JR sees that too, he explicitly talked about it as well. I just don't think that trading Rust is the way to react on this (JR probably thinks the same way here, for better or worse). There are definitely other ways. Nobody wants to keep things the same.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Down year? He put up nearly 40 points and was playing ridiculous minutes in the playoffs.

We paid Hunwick relatively the same amount of money.

It was a down year, relatively speaking. HBK wasn't clicking like it had been and got split up, and Bones consequently scored less than half in the playoffs of what he scored the year before. That's why letting him go wasn't met with much opposition here, or anywhere, at the time.

Hunwick was a mistake from the beginning, no argument there. It would've been put to much better use on Bonino.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Malkin had one of his best seasons in years and you just tried to piss all over him to excuse Rust.

You just keep digging the grave deeper...

And this is about the last few years... Rust, Malkin, Letang, Dumo, Crosby, JJ!, Sullivan, JR... take your pick... as long as it isn’t Rust right?

You told me once gotta be rid of Kessel and the boys will stop following his lazy ass lead... yep... yep... killers out there agt the 24th ranked playoff team.

I don't know what's going on mate. But there's a clear chemistry with Geno And Rust and Rust was lucky that he found chemistry like that with the 101st best player in the game.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I see your point. JR sees that too, he explicitly talked about it as well. I just don't think that trading Rust is the way to react on this (JR probably thinks the same way here, for better or worse). There are definitely other ways. Nobody wants to keep things the same.

JR is also a moron, like his coach (a bigger idea mind you)...he fired shots at Rust last year. Then this year Rust plays well. In that feeble wrinkly brain of his, it might justify him moving Rust while his value is at the all time highest.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

JR is also a moron, like his coach (a bigger idea mind you)...he fired shots at Rust last year. Then this year Rust plays well. In that feeble wrinkly brain of his, it might justify him moving Rust while his value is at the all time highest.

And to touch on this a little more...

If JR could add JJ to Murray and Rust and get a 1st (16-20 range) and a solid young player and either another pick or prospect, I wouldn't put it past JR.

Would I like it? No. Not at all. But horse trading is the business.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It was a down year, relatively speaking. HBK wasn't clicking like it had been and got split up, and Bones consequently scored less than half in the playoffs of what he scored the year before. That's why letting him go wasn't met with much opposition here, or anywhere, at the time.

Hunwick was a mistake from the beginning, no argument there. It would've been put to much better use on Bonino.

Hunwick was fine until he got a concussion and the injuries just piled on. He never really played more than 14 games ever again after that. But he was solid in the first bit before his injury. People can't ignore that.

Bones was starting to look slower. He fits in the west to me because he fits that leagues skating and playing style. We're lucky we got what we got, out of Bones in his tenure. People need to let that shit go.

 

[SEALBound]

Not much here, but this is from another poster FWIW...

“I caught Yohe on with Madden today on the drive home. Highlights I remember from the discussion:

--Yohe likes Kapanen and thinks he will be a good fit with the Pens (reminds him a bit of Rust), but thinks Rutherford overpaid. And he thinks overpayment is kind of Rutherford's thing. Once he decides he wants a guy, he's willing to pay whatever price to get him.

This has been JR's MO for awhile though. His willingness to pay is what gets him trading partners. It's a double edged swords that always cuts both ways.

--On a related note, he thinks the window is basically two years until the end of the Malkin and Letang deals, and Rutherford has told him more or less explicitly that he doesn't care about draft picks or prospects right now, only players that might be able to help in that window.

Yup. I keep telling people that. This is still a win now team and I guarentee you that directive is coming straight from Burkle and Lemieux and the rest of the owners. Old man is old man...but he has his marching orders.

--The return for Murray isn't likely to be very good. Yohe thinks if it's a roster player, it'll be an unremarkable bottom-six forward or bottom-pairing d-man, otherwise a 2nd round pick at best. He thought Minnesota, Edmonton, and Calgary were the likeliest destinations.

I think Minnesota is the best location for everyone involved to be honest. Minny/St. Paul isn't that far from Thunder Bay, they need a goalie, and they have the assets to pay / have ones we want.

Hartman
Fiala
Foligno
Donato
Eriksson Ek (doubtful as they need centers)
Addison
Pateryn
2nd
Our 1st

Any one of those would be nice for the roster. I would even add ZAR as a sweeter to replace the forward or JJ to replace the dman. MM+JJ for Pateryn+Stalock? MM+ZAR for Foligno+Stalock?

Calgary would be more ideal as I think Bennett is the more ideal get. I see a lot in him that we loved about Bonino. Otherwise, it's their 2nd or more.

Edmonton would be tough...Chiasson would be an interesting option. AA would be sweet. Man would we have speed.

Jake-Sid-Rust
Zuck-Geno-Kappy
AA-McCann-Horny
BART

--The organization really likes Poulin and Joseph and wants to at least give them a chance to play their way onto the team. And Rutherford still seems pretty ticked about the team's playoff performance. So, put those two pieces together, and it adds up to a lot more wheeling and dealing in the next couple months to open up spots on and re-tool the NHL roster.”

Good...good...let that anger guide you into more changes. I just cringe at the prices you are willing to pay since you are mad...

"The problem some teams view in taking on Murray is that not only is he RFA and needs a new deal, but he’s arbitration-eligible and one team source told me they’re worried he’d command $6 million in arbitration."

LeBrun: Maple Leafs accomplish their goal in recouping first-rounder for Kapanen

$6mil long term isn't unreasonable. I think $5.75 for 4-5 years is reasonable as well.

Do people not want Dumoulin now?

His injury worries me. Post ankle injury Dumo was not great. Then 6 months of rest and rehab and he still didn't look great. If we can get a stud top winger for him, I think we consider it at least. Then use Rust to get another.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Hunwick was fine until he got a concussion and the injuries just piled on. He never really played more than 14 games ever again after that. But he was solid in the first bit before his injury. People can't ignore that.

Bones was starting to look slower. He fits in the west to me because he fits that leagues skating and playing style. We're lucky we got what we got, out of Bones in his tenure. People need to let that shit go.

ehhhhhhhh, Hunwick is hard to analyze but he wasn’t fine until the concussion. He was bad and then looked like he figured things out for a few games before getting concussed. There’s no way of knowing what would have happened without the concussion. Maybe the good games were a fluke, maybe they were the norm or maybe he was inconsistent but who knows because the sample size was crazy small.

 

[vikingGoalie]

go to #4 down on the podcast list...”talking some more JJ”



or try this Pixies through Jesse’s tweet, where I called up the podcast...

wow the numbers jesse puts out on JJ it's just mind boggling bad. wouldn't it be worth just burying him in the AHL or buying him out if no one will take him for a bag of pucks? He also says that apparently something was "close" on trading murray this last weekend.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hunwick was fine until he got a concussion and the injuries just piled on. He never really played more than 14 games ever again after that. But he was solid in the first bit before his injury. People can't ignore that.

Bones was starting to look slower. He fits in the west to me because he fits that leagues skating and playing style. We're lucky we got what we got, out of Bones in his tenure. People need to let that shit go.

Interesting take from the dude who defaults to Sullivan being responsible for every issue or prospect failure during the past three years.

 

[Gurglesons]

wow the numbers jesse puts out on JJ it's just mind boggling bad. wouldn't it be worth just burying him in the AHL or buying him out if no one will take him for a bag of pucks? He also says that apparently something was "close" on trading murray this last weekend.

Yeah. That part was insane. 140+ zone entries and he defended 8 LOL

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Interesting take from the dude who defaults to Sullivan being responsible for every issue or prospect failure during the past three years.

Hunwick did well because his game was simple and hard for Sully and Co to f*** up. He was fast and he was solid in his end.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hunwick did well because his game was simple and hard for Sully and Co to f*** up. He was fast and he was solid in his end.

Hunwick’s only full season without a scratch came with the league worst Leafs. Dude blew.

That summer is why @Shady Machine rarely posts here anymore because everything he and I were worried about played out exactly as we predicted.