Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary cap: Once upon a time in Kennywood

[Peat]

I think the issue is more why did the Pens go all in on the guy? It's not a bad contract, but didn't seem like a necessary one yet and he's not a guy, IMO, that is going to produce enough to warrant a much higher contract.

Pettersson's on course for a 25 point season after a 27 point pace. You look at what some of the younger guys around him who produce that much get paid - Skjei at 5.25m, Savard at 4.25m, Ceci at 4.3m, Girard about to get 5m - and I think even a small raise to 30-35 points would start making him look a bit pricy on the next contract.

Other side of it of course is why not? Even going short term, I think you're paying about 3m a year. That difference isn't huge and mightn't be worth foregoing certainty on a guy who's been a pretty solid 2nd pairing dman in a down year.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think the issue is more why did the Pens go all in on the guy? It's not a bad contract, but didn't seem like a necessary one yet and he's not a guy, IMO, that is going to produce enough to warrant a much higher contract.

What's so all in about it? They gave a middle pair defenseman middle pair defenseman money.

I guess maybe it's a year longer than ideal, but again, he's only 23 and will only be 28 by the time the deal is over. I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that his play will only improve over the course of this contract as well. So I don't see what the issue is.

 

[WayneSid9987]

There is a plus side to MP's contract.
That combined with Zucker added means they probably move on from JJ and his contract sooner.
I do have some faith that MP's play will improve through out the contract. He's young, real skinny and gets out muscled right now.
I'll wait and let Gonch/Martin + a good summer program do their thing with him.
ETA: Another plus is that he's pretty durable. He gets banged around alot out there. Once he thickens up, evens up the out-muscling thing and makes quicker decisions with the puck, he should be just fine.

 

[Shady Machine]

Pettersson's on course for a 25 point season after a 27 point pace. You look at what some of the younger guys around him who produce that much get paid - Skjei at 5.25m, Savard at 4.25m, Ceci at 4.3m, Girard about to get 5m - and I think even a small raise to 30-35 points would start making him look a bit pricy on the next contract.

Other side of it of course is why not? Even going short term, I think you're paying about 3m a year. That difference isn't huge and mightn't be worth foregoing certainty on a guy who's been a pretty solid 2nd pairing dman in a down year.

I'm not upset about it, but I personally don't think he's proven he's a top 4 guy yet. Locking him in now can be a benefit, but if he doesn't improve, it's got some risk associated with it. Personally, I'd rather sign him 2 years 3MM and use the extra million to keep x player here that maximizes the rest of real contention window.

It's honestly fine. Just not going wild about it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not upset about it, but I personally don't think he's proven he's a top 4 guy yet. Locking him in now can be a benefit, but if he doesn't improve, it's got some risk associated with it. Personally, if was up for it, I'd rather sign him 2 years 3MM and use the extra million to keep x player here that maximizes the rest of real contention window.

It's honestly fine. Just not going wild about it.

That million isn’t going to effect anything worthwhile and you’re likely dipping into UFA to fill the Pettersson role and getting a player like De Haan (injury concerns) or JJ (age and shitty) for that price.

Pettersson is having a rough year playing above his head. He will be fine and people trashing him or the contract are bizarre. Long term you’ll see a Dumo - Letang, Pettersson- Marino pairing which will stabilize the amount of time Petts has been getting against tougher competition.

 

[Gurglesons]

Expensive in terms of assets and cap hit, and unnecessary.

Petts is fine for a #4 defenseman, he's just playing far more minutes than he's ever played before this year with a partner who's not nearly as good as Marino right now. And his numbers are still solid in spite of that.

Exactly. We are likely spending a ton of that. If we had kept Kahun, I’d see the argument for moving McCann + JJ for a relative upgrade, but much like Maatta, Pettersson won’t lose us games.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Exactly. We are likely spending a ton of that. If we had kept Kahun, I’d see the argument for moving McCann + JJ for a relative upgrade, but much like Maatta, Pettersson won’t lose us games.

And unlike Maatta, we know Pettersson can skate and there are some changeable circumstances that contribute to his sometimes uneven play.

The residual effects from Maatta's cancer and shoulder issues were always going to be there, unfortunately.

 

[Shady Machine]

That million isn’t going to effect anything worthwhile and you’re likely dipping into UFA to fill the Pettersson role and getting a player like De Haan (injury concerns) or JJ (age and shitty) for that price.

Pettersson is having a rough year playing above his head. He will be fine and people trashing him or the contract are bizarre. Long term you’ll see a Dumo - Letang, Pettersson- Marino pairing which will stabilize the amount of time Petts has been getting against tougher competition.

$1MM could be the difference between retaining 1 of McCann, Sheary, Simon or having to move one. It could be the difference between keeping both goalies and moving 1. Again, let me emphasize, this is not a huge deal, I just don't see anything in MP that screamed "sign this man long term now" other than he did us a solid this year and JR had a verbal agreement.

I like him generally and now that Marino is here, I feel better about MP is a 2nd pairing guy. He's a good player and will rebound when things stabilize and generally happy to have him for the future.

 

[mpp9]

MP is nowhere near the skater Dumo is. So I think expectations should be tempered with the comparisons there.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

$1MM could be the difference between retaining 1 of McCann, Sheary, Simon or having to move one. It could be the difference between keeping both goalies and moving 1. Again, let me emphasize, this is not a huge deal, I just don't see anything in MP that screamed "sign this man long term now" other than he did us a solid this year and JR had a verbal agreement.

I like him generally and now that Marino is here, I feel better about MP is a 2nd pairing guy. He's a good player and will rebound when things stabilize and generally happy to have him for the future.

Pettersson took a sweetheart one-year contract last year, but I doubt he's inclined to do the Pens salary favours annually.

MP is nowhere near the skater Dumo is. So I think expectations should be tempered with the comparisons there.

Worth remembering though that Dumo was a year older in his first full season than Petts is now.

 

[Gurglesons]

$1MM could be the difference between retaining 1 of McCann, Sheary, Simon or having to move one. It could be the difference between keeping both goalies and moving 1. Again, let me emphasize, this is not a huge deal, I just don't see anything in MP that screamed "sign this man long term now" other than he did us a solid this year and JR had a verbal agreement.

I like him generally and now that Marino is here, I feel better about MP is a 2nd pairing guy. He's a good player and will rebound when things stabilize and generally happy to have him for the future.

He’s a guy who can play 18 minutes a night that fits our system and puts up 20+ pts. That’s worth 4 mil in today’s market at 30. The fact he is 23 and can improve (and technically has analytically) makes it a solid deal.

Not every player needs to be a game changer. Look at Tampa and Boston with D men like Carlo and Coburn.

 

[66-30-33]

There is a plus side to MP's contract.
That combined with Zucker added means they probably move on from JJ and his contract sooner.
I do have some faith that MP's play will improve through out the contract. He's young, real skinny and gets out muscled right now.
I'll wait and let Gonch/Martin + a good summer program do their thing with him.
ETA: Another plus is that he's pretty durable. He gets banged around alot out there. Once he thickens up, evens up the out-muscling thing and makes quicker decisions with the puck, he should be just fine.

I think JJ is the one we pay Seattle a 3rd round pick to take from us.

So...1 more year. Hopefully he's a bottom pairing guy, he's way over the top of his head on a top pairing even if he has been decent a good chunk of the season, he should be a bottom pairing and he will be fine probably.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think JJ is the one we pay Seattle a 3rd round pick to take from us.

So...1 more year. Hopefully he's a bottom pairing guy, he's way over the top of his head on a top pairing even if he has been decent a good chunk of the season, he should be a bottom pairing and he will be fine probably.

It would take a lot more than a 3rd for them. Remember, they have a useful player in the bag. So it's "useful Pens player" for Johnson + 3rd. It would take a 1st probably if it were going to Seattle through the expansion draft. Same as Vegas traded Rust for Fleury and a 2nd.

Any other team, sure.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think JJ is the one we pay Seattle a 3rd round pick to take from us.

So...1 more year. Hopefully he's a bottom pairing guy, he's way over the top of his head on a top pairing even if he has been decent a good chunk of the season, he should be a bottom pairing and he will be fine probably.

We should have a decent forward available so I don’t think a 3rd would cut it.

2 spots for Hornqvist, McCann, Blueger, Tanev plus if we add next season.

By that stage JJ shouldn’t be difficult to move anyway. He’s been decent on the 2nd pair when not played above where he should. Just unfortunate our #2, #3 have been out at the same time for a good chunk.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

By that stage JJ shouldn’t be difficult to move anyway. He’s been decent on the 2nd pair when not played above where he should. Just unfortunate our #2, #3 have been out at the same time for a good chunk.

All that has to happen is our defense staying healthy so Sullivan doesn't force JJ to play out of his depth!

 

[Empoleon8771]

JJ shouldn't be difficult to move going forward because:

1. He's owed less money than his cap hit going forward
2. He's been serviceable in a depth role this year
3. He's not overpaid with either money or term if he plays like a #5 DFD, which he has been when not with Letang (which is an oil and water pair that has both partners hurting the other one)

I don't think you'd move him for much, and I could see a situation where you have to add to him to not take money back (nothing significant, though), but I don't think he'd be that difficult to move. I think he'd be easier to move than Hunwick in 2018. Coincidentally, if the Penguins re-sign Sheary for cheap (which I wouldn't rule out at all), I could see Simon being the guy attached to Johnson to not take back any significant money for JJ.

 

[Tom Hanks]

All that has to happen is our defense staying healthy so Sullivan doesn't force JJ to play out of his depth!

That’s it! I also don’t think it would have changed much but as I’ve said if you’re winning whatever but the 4 game losing streak should change things up.

I wouldn’t expect it next game because we definitely outplayed LA by a good margin just didn’t finish. Huge Sully fan but I think he should change the top pair in a big losing streak.

Maybe it’s a case of Dumo is back any game now and we’ve won most of the time so leave it. Dont agree right now

 

[SEALBound]

It would take a lot more than a 3rd for them. Remember, they have a useful player in the bag. So it's "useful Pens player" for Johnson + 3rd. It would take a 1st probably if it were going to Seattle through the expansion draft. Same as Vegas traded Rust for Fleury and a 2nd.

Any other team, sure.

Um, what? What is this?

 

[Beauner]

Um, what? What is this?

Vegas was rumored to take Rust and flip him to Columbus. JR paid a 2nd so they'd take Fleury instead

 

[Peat]

I'm not upset about it, but I personally don't think he's proven he's a top 4 guy yet. Locking him in now can be a benefit, but if he doesn't improve, it's got some risk associated with it. Personally, I'd rather sign him 2 years 3MM and use the extra million to keep x player here that maximizes the rest of real contention window.

It's honestly fine. Just not going wild about it.

I get it, just I think there's some interesting stuff in the wrinkles. Like the risk factor - do you think if end of next season he was still the exact same player he is today, he'd be that difficult to shift to a team like Montreal or Florida that are desperate for LD?

I do really get the argument about short term deals and squeezing money to go hard for cups though. It's the one thing that makes me pause. 90% of the time I'll argue for term because it's a hell of a lot easier weaselling out of bad contracts than it is acquiring great ones but this is the 10% I'm uhming and aahing.

I think there's two possible arguments here.

One is that Rutherford thinks the window can be longer than most other people and has half an eye on that.

The second is he thinks the benefit of great long term contracts can kick in really quick. Which seems odd - surely it only kicks in at the end of the bridge? But maybe the stability is something he likes. Or he thinks it helps players. I dunno. Its odd that Rutherford's prepared to do mad things to keep the cap of UFAs down, but willingly swings big on his RFAs.

I will say this though - I don't think he's signed a bad long term deal here yet. Maatta came the closest but it was still more okay than bad. Obviously there's plenty of time for JJ and maybe even Hornqvist to go sour (JJ's still a little sour even with a decent season) but everything's come up smelling of roses. So all Pettersson has to do is not break the streak!

 

[ronduguayshair]

Vegas was rumored to take Rust and flip him to Columbus. JR paid a 2nd so they'd take Fleury instead

Let’s revisit this. Pretty decent gamble by JR. Goalies are replaceable/low priority in the salary cap era. Wingers not so.

 

[Peat]

Let’s revisit this. Pretty decent gamble by JR. Goalies are replaceable/low priority in the salary cap era. Wingers not so.

We've replaced all but 3 of our 16-17 cup winning wingers all while acquiring and moving another 3 to boot (plus a prospect graduate). I'm not sure there's a huge difference - its just about keeping the right guys for both. Which so far Rutherford has got very right.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Very interested to see what we do at the draft and in free agency this year. We lucked into an absolute stud with Marino, and that's incredibly important for us now and moving forward.

Still have a few issues to address though.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Very interested to see what we do at the draft and in free agency this year. We lucked into an absolute stud with Marino, and that's incredibly important for us now and moving forward.

Still have a few issues to address though.

We shouldn’t have that much money for free agency that could be a good thing or a bad thing

 

[Peat]

We shouldn’t have that much money for free agency that could be a good thing or a bad thing

This is very true but I also thought the same shortly before we signed Tanev. Trader Jim does some crazy things.