Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary cap: Once upon a time in Kennywood

[ZeroPucksGiven]

From Freidman's 31 thoughts.
31. Was watching Jason Zucker leave morning skate on a freezing day in Toronto. No socks. Minnesota winters toughen you up.

Some hard hitting journalism right there

 

[td_ice]

Some hard hitting journalism right there

Haha, I guess when you lock yourself into 31 topics, you are gonna need some filler some days .

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I think this close to the end of the season, if they would need to recall someone it would be easier to place the injured player on IR and call someone up.

players on ir still count towards the cap

900k in total monies or a 900k cap hit. If it’s total we are more than fine as daily cap hits for AHL players will be really low.

I forget

[4:22pm est edit] Monies I believe

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Whoever plays themselves into the starting role moving forward, be it Jarry or Murray, we'll be able to trade the other for a great return this summer at the draft. Teams like Colorado, Carolina, Toronto, and others would probably line up to throw their hat in the ring.

 

[USMC607]

Whoever plays themselves into the starting role moving forward, be it Jarry or Murray, we'll be able to trade the other for a great return this summer at the draft. Teams like Colorado, Carolina, Toronto, and others would probably line up to throw their hat in the ring.

I'm just really curious to what the return will be...

Because depending on what it is, it could set up next yr to be solid up and down the lineup and make us a top threat for the cup.

As long as the goalie that stays remains solid...

Well at least until our injury curse takes out half the team again.

 

[Flying Dego]

I'm just really curious to what the return will be...

Because depending on what it is, it could set up next yr to be solid up and down the lineup and make us a top threat for the cup.

As long as the goalie that stays remains solid...

Well at least until our injury curse takes out half the team again.

Jarry will save us money and I believe MM brings back the best return. GMs are creatures of habit and they love cup winners so MM should be coveted by a few teams.

Either goalie would do fine here... though it all depends on our team D, the goalie is secondary if that sucks.

 

[USMC607]

Jarry will save us money and I believe MM brings back the best return. GMs are creatures of habit and they love cup winners so MM should be coveted by a few teams.

Either goalie would do fine here... though it all depends on our team D, the goalie is secondary if that sucks.

Realistically who or what would we get for Murray from

COL
CAR
TOR

 

[Flying Dego]

Realistically who or what would we get for Murray from

COL
CAR
TOR

For me...

I'd like either a 1st (higher end) if not a high pick than a good young player on a rookie deal. We need to infuse more cheap talent. We'll need another cheap D or fwd to help with cap costs.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd be surprised if we couldn't come away from a Murray trade with at least a 1st from some of these teams.

Our prime objective this summer should be landing a stud LD to pair with Marino long-term. At any cost, just get that guy and get the right guy. No prospects or picks should be off the table assuming it's a guy who will be a great player for years to come.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Jarry will save us money and I believe MM brings back the best return. GMs are creatures of habit and they love cup winners so MM should be coveted by a few teams.

Either goalie would do fine here... though it all depends on our team D, the goalie is secondary if that sucks.

I wouldn't rule out Jarry bringing back more. You said it yourself: cheaper. I don't think contenders are flush with cap space this summer. Given the CBA and how free agency works, Jarry is going to be $2-4M cheaper than Murray regardless of how this season plays out.

I'd still prefer to keep Jarry, but it's worth considering. Maybe you could get @Big Friggin Dummy's high-end 2LD straight up for him, or close.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Murray or the return from Murray gets us far enough along the path toward acquiring that LD. I also pick Jarry over Murray moving forward every single time because of Murray's inconsistencies over the past couple years.

Even so, he's a young, potentially franchise goalie with multiple Cups. GMs will salivate over that this summer.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'd be surprised if we couldn't come away from a Murray trade with at least a 1st from some of these teams.

Our prime objective this summer should be landing a stud LD to pair with Marino long-term. At any cost, just get that guy and get the right guy. No prospects or picks should be off the table assuming it's a guy who will be a great player for years to come.

I do agree with you, but I wouldn't rule out Petts getting an NHL body now that he has money.

I harp on this again and again but his extremely wiry frame (for a dman) adversely affects everything that he does. He gets manhandled physically with regularity. He'll never be a hulking guy but he could play at 190-195 and be far more effective.

I'm sure the org knows about it and that Petts is a hardgainer, but there's remedies for that too.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think Murray or the return from Murray gets us far enough along the path toward acquiring that LD. I also pick Jarry over Murray moving forward every single time because of Murray's inconsistencies over the past couple years.

Even so, he's a young, potentially franchise goalie with multiple Cups. GMs will salivate over that this summer.

I don't think teams overpay for past Cups in quite the way you think they do.

Then again, goalies with Murray's cup track record are rarely (never?) traded so who knows.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think teams overpay for past Cups in quite the way you think they do.

Then again, goalies with Murray's cup track record are rarely (never?) traded so who knows.

I just think he'll get a Schneider type of deal. GMs love Cup experience and young cornerstone pieces. Murray's struggling lately, but he could easily find his footing again with a fresh start somewhere else, imo.

And I wouldn't say I think they overpay, but to discount the value of that kind of experience to a GM seems off. GMs value certain things like clockwork. Cup experience is one of 'em.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I do agree with you, but I wouldn't rule out Petts getting an NHL body now that he has money.

I harp on this again and again but his extremely wiry frame (for a dman) adversely affects everything that he does. He gets manhandled physically with regularity. He'll never be a hulking guy but he could play at 190-195 and be far more effective.

I'm sure the org knows about it and that Petts is a hardgainer, but there's remedies for that too.

I just think he's not thinking the game properly. Lots of rookie mistakes, thinking the game slowly, out of position and just looking wholly overwhelmed. I know he's wiry and can/should bulk up a bit, but I wouldn't say that's his big issue. He just looks like a dude who should be getting top minutes in WBS this season as opposed to shoe-horning him into a middle pairing spot.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I just think he's not thinking the game properly. Lots of rookie mistakes, thinking the game slowly, out of position and just looking wholly overwhelmed. I know he's wiry and can/should bulk up a bit, but I wouldn't say that's his big issue. He just looks like a dude who should be getting top minutes in WBS this season as opposed to shoe-horning him into a middle pairing spot.

He thought the game better last year. I was very impressed with his mental game at that time.

I think Petts gets mentally caught in-between being a linear, simplistic defenseman and a skilled PMD. In much the same way that I think Rust is caught between being a grinder-with-skill and a skill-first winger. In both cases the guys should go back to the simpler versions if that makes sense (please note that in Rust's case this means he's gotta move back to RW at least. I can't stand him on LW and yes I know he scored yesterday). For Petts, his frame exacerbates this in-between. Maybe I'm projecting/editorializing, but I see him thinking "what would a PMD do in this situation?" out there and not playing instinctively. One such situation resulted in that horrible goal against the Caps on Sunday to make it 4-3. Then again, as the trust-fund-baby who hates both of us says, I am given to speculative flights of fancy so this is perhaps fully off-base.

 

[Gurglesons]

He thought the game better last year. I was very impressed with his mental game at that time.

I think Petts gets mentally caught in-between being a linear, simplistic defenseman and a skilled PMD. In much the same way that I think Rust is caught between being a grinder-with-skill and a skill-first winger. In both cases the guys should go back to the simpler versions if that makes sense (please note that in Rust's case this means he's gotta move back to RW at least. I can't stand him on LW and yes I know he scored yesterday). For Petts, his frame exacerbates this in-between. Maybe I'm projecting/editorializing, but I see him thinking "what would a PMD do in this situation?" out there and not playing instinctively. One such situation resulted in that horrible goal against the Caps on Sunday to make it 4-3. Then again, as the trust-fund-baby who hates both of us says, I am given to speculative flights of fancy so this is perhaps fully off-base.

I think the issue is that Pettersson is playing 20-21 minutes a night which is absurd for a sophomore.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think the issue is that Pettersson is playing 20-21 minutes a night which is absurd for a sophomore.

A sophomore DMan?

Like. 2 have to be on the ice (I guess not on the PP, but bear with me). So an average of 20 minutes per DMan. 20-21 is absurd? Like "holy crap you're playing the sh1t out of this guy" absurd?

I don't buy this take. When you pay the guy $4M a year - or $3.5M a year including this year, whatever - you're saying he's an average defenseman at least.

 

[66-30-33]

All we need is a 1st for MM. Package that 1st with Petts for say Ekholm?

Ekholm-Letang
Dumo-Marino

 

[Gurglesons]

A sophomore DMan?

Like. 2 have to be on the ice (I guess not on the PP, but bear with me). So an average of 20 minutes per DMan. 20-21 is absurd? Like "holy crap you're playing the sh1t out of this guy" absurd?

I don't buy this take. When you pay the guy $4M a year - or $3.5M a year including this year, whatever - you're saying he's an average defenseman at least.

Average defenseman don’t play 20 minutes a night. He is also getting paid 750 k this year.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Average defenseman don’t play 20 minutes a night. He is also getting paid 750 k this year.

NHL.com Stats

Petts is 110th on this list at 19:38. The median guy, Derek Forbort, is at 17:51.

Is 1:47 per game really the big difference in Petts' effectiveness? I doubt it but he is above the median; I'll give you that.

Edit: Come on. He is paid $4M for the next 5 years to make up for his salary this year because they didn't have space in the offseason. This has been made abundantly clear by both Petts and the team.

Penguins sign defenseman Marcus Pettersson to contract extension | TribLIVE.com

"The framework of such a lucrative deal had been in place since the summer."
So yeah, he's on a 6 year/$21M deal. He and the team have said as much.



I think a better argument for Petts is that the advanced metrics don't paint him that badly. Not the ATOI or his money.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think the issue is that Pettersson is playing 20-21 minutes a night which is absurd for a sophomore.

Here are some numbers. They show he’s been more effective than some people say. He’s been quite up and down though so some of those rough stretches might skew opinions (Jan and particularly Nov). He’s not a flashy player either so when he’s played well/effective it probably doesn’t stick out in the mind as much.

October his GF% was really good (60+) and his xGF% was just above 50/50. Chances around 50/50. ATOI 18:42. 5 points +6 Team 8-5-0

November GF% was quite low (30ish) but xGF% was very good (around 60) so that’s weird. Chances around 60/40. ATOI 19:36. 3 points -9. Team 6-4-4

December GF% was really good (above 70%) but xGF% was just above 50/50. Chances around 55/45. ATOI 18:48. 6 points +10. Team 10-2-0

January GF% was down (below 40%) but xGF% was just above 50/50. Chances around 50/50. ATOI 20:41. 1 point -3. Team 8-3-1

February GF% was great (65%) but xGF% was just below 50/50. Chances around 50/50. ATOI 20:32. 4 points + 5. Team 5-5-1

Partners (don’t know when they played together).
Schultz 43%
Marino 29%
Ruhwedel 11%
Letang 6%
Trotman 5%

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'd be surprised if we couldn't come away from a Murray trade with at least a 1st from some of these teams.

Our prime objective this summer should be landing a stud LD to pair with Marino long-term. At any cost, just get that guy and get the right guy. No prospects or picks should be off the table assuming it's a guy who will be a great player for years to come.

Expensive in terms of assets and cap hit, and unnecessary.

Petts is fine for a #4 defenseman, he's just playing far more minutes than he's ever played before this year with a partner who's not nearly as good as Marino right now. And his numbers are still solid in spite of that.

 

[pistolpete11]

What were people expecting from Petts? I think he's been fine. He's had some rough spots, but it happens to 23 year old defenemen in their second season all the time. Mostly, though, he's been fine. I still think he has poor man's Dumo written all over him and let's not forget, Dumo wasn't even an NHL regular by the time he was 23. I will gladly go into the foreseeable future with Letang, Dumo, Petts, and Marino as the top 4 defensemen.

 

[Shady Machine]

What were people expecting from Petts? I think he's been fine. He's had some rough spots, but it happens to 23 year old defenemen in their second season all the time. Mostly, though, he's been fine. I still think he has poor man's Dumo written all over him and let's not forget, Dumo wasn't even an NHL regular by the time he was 23. I will gladly go into the foreseeable future with Letang, Dumo, Petts, and Marino as the top 4 defensemen.

I think the issue is more why did the Pens go all in on the guy? It's not a bad contract, but didn't seem like a necessary one yet and he's not a guy, IMO, that is going to produce enough to warrant a much higher contract.