Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary cap: Once upon a time in Kennywood

[Ugene Magic]

The Wild are still getting a 1st. We are just able to choose which year it is.

Yes. But like I said, there's a difference from qualifying and a pandemic crisis. The Pens will/would have qualified.

The Wild would be in full rights to keep the 2020.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yes.

I could also see where the Wild would fight this considering the circumstances. The Pens would very much make these playoffs had they been played. Qualify and a pandemic shutdown are two different things.

I'm not too sure if JR or the team would use such a pandemic for not honoring their deal when it was clearly identifiable they would make it.

The Pens are being robbed of a playoff run with Zucker though and we can’t just use the “well he has term” argument to blow that off IMHO.

The stipulation in the agreement was that if they miss the playoffs the Pens have the option to switch firsts... that stipulation is there because losing out on a playoff run is costly to this org... be that through their own fault or a pandemic, it’s still a playoff run they can’t ever have back.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes. But like I said, there's a difference from qualifying and a pandemic crisis. The Pens will/would have qualified.

The Wild would be in full rights to keep the 2020.

Highly doubt it.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The Pens are being robbed of a playoff run with Zucker though and we can’t just use the “well he has term” argument to blow that off IMHO.

The stipulation in the agreement was that if they miss the playoffs the Pens have the option to switch firsts... that stipulation is there because losing out on a playoff run is costly to this org... be that through their own fault or a pandemic, it’s still a playoff run they can’t ever have back.

They are going to finish the season. We'll have Zucker AND Guentzel as our LWs for the playoff run. And a hard reset on the malfunctioning team. Hopefully either Jarry or Murray gets hot again.

The playoff run is just going to happen over this summer in some weird location.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

They are going to finish the season. We'll have Zucker AND Guentzel as our LWs for the playoff run. And a hard reset on the malfunctioning team. Hopefully either Jarry or Murray gets hot again.

The playoff run is just going to happen over this summer in some weird location.

We shall see, but I have severe doubts about that.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The Pens are being robbed of a playoff run with Zucker though and we can’t just use the “well he has term” argument to blow that off IMHO.

The stipulation in the agreement was that if they miss the playoffs the Pens have the option to switch firsts... that stipulation is there because losing out on a playoff run is costly to this org... be that through their own fault or a pandemic, it’s still a playoff run they can’t ever have back.

It's a dick move. I doubt JR ever considers using unfortunate circumstances for the teams gain while getting over on a friend and fellow GM where it's looked down upon and ruins future trades and dealings.

That stipulation is there that they physically miss the playoffs due to their play and standings.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It's a dick move. I doubt JR ever considers using unfortunate circumstances for the teams gain while getting over on a friend and fellow GM where it's looked down upon and ruins future trades and dealings.

That stipulation is there that they physically miss the playoffs due to their play and standings.

I don’t see it as a dick move when you literally lose an entire playoff run that you paid a premium for.

JR sent what many considered their best prospect AND a first rounder, a premium price to be sure, with the idea he was paying this hefty price for this season’s playoff run.

Anyone pretending that they are guaranteed anymore healthy runs with Crosby and Malkin are being naive.

Once again that’s why he deemed a playoff run this season as an extremely high priority, or he wouldn’t have negotiated the option if they missed.

There is no way around that fact.

Minny still gets the Pens top prospect and a first, but it only seems fair the option is allowed to be used IMHO.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Whatever the Pens are able to do, I can't see JR doing anything contentious.

I can't remember when he's done anything but accommodate (in some cases over-accommodate) other GMs in the name of maintaining good relations.

 

[JTG]

You can't really call it a stroke of luck because of what is at stake throughout the entire world, but getting Jake back for a playoff push and playoff run is monumental.

 

[888 98 twins]

If we can't even have a parade to speculate absurd attendance numbers after we win the Cup, what's even the point?

 

[Zirakzigil]

They are going to finish the season. We'll have Zucker AND Guentzel as our LWs for the playoff run. And a hard reset on the malfunctioning team. Hopefully either Jarry or Murray gets hot again.

The playoff run is just going to happen over this summer in some weird location.

Zucker - Crosby - Guenzel actually

 

[Zirakzigil]

If we can't even have a parade to speculate absurd attendance numbers after we win the Cup, what's even the point?

Well I can only watch them on TV anyways, so I dont care where they play.

 

[Peat]

I think Rutherford will defer to keeping both and hoping the decision is made by Seattle. The league is quickly moving to a two goalie platoon and Murray is likely getting a shave on his expected contract if the cap goes down and I assume Jarry will get less than most are anticipating.

The Vensel articles says as much. Murray is going to get another short term prove it deal and there is nothing he can do about it. Jarry probably gets 2 x 2 and Murray something in the 5-6 mil range for a year or two. Seems obvious to me and I don’t think either have much of an argument to get otherwise.

Vensel's the first guy to say it. Maybe if more people say it I'll start to believe different. Right now, much as I think he'd like to have that sort of tandem, I don't think he's willing to sacrifice the team in front of them to the point of being able to pay them. Maybe I'm off base but it makes sense to me and its the overwhelming narrative.

A 2nd is an awfully big risk premium to pay for something that was so obvious.

A 2nd really isn't that much. It's a lower mid-tier deadline rental. Its Ron Hainsey for a post-season.

It's also got to be remembered that the reports had this deal being struck in February. Back then it wasn't quite so obvious. After his stretch run and post-season it was obvious (particularly when MAF's wife was going house shopping in Vegas) and if Rutherford had waited a little longer, maybe he'd have had to pay less. But he needed certainty he wasn't exposing Murray then and, well, it wasn't that much.

Also got to remember that 2nd is only getting handed over now. Which is what, 2? 3? I honestly can't remember when Vegas' expansion draft was now. So less than Ron Hainsey for a post-season.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Just going through a flat cap scenario IF they jettison or buyout both JJ and Bjugs they'd be in pretty good shape to keep both MM/Jarry.
Had Jarry at 2.5 and Murr at 5.2.
McCann 2.5.
Kept only one of Sheary or Simon @ 1.5.
Rest re-uped to similar AAV's.
All that has around 4-4.5M in cap space.

Betting man says they keep JJ tho and Bjugs will be bought out cuz they are thin on LD.
Thats where things are tight when you wanna keep both G's.

 

[Andy99]

Here’s the latest from TIOPS....lol...summary is from another poster...

“He basically says, really about Murray and Letang, that missing the rest of the season if it is cancelled is a huge blow to the Penguins in the evaluation of these two, and what to do with them. Penguins really wanted to see what these players brought in the playoffs before making any future decisions. Says Murray's perceived value (not sure if his or around the league) is 7-7.5M, but with a lost season, he might be forced to take a 1-2 year deal right around his current salary.

On Letang, he says the Penguins owe it to themselves to explore trade interest in Letang this summer, without getting cold feet this time. TIOPS claims that Rutherford was keen on moving Letang at the draft last year, until he received backlash from Crosby's inner circle on the morning of the draft that Crosby was strongly opposed to Letang being dealt.”

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why in Christ's name would the Penguins move Letang when Schultz (who would be sliding into the top-4 with Letang leaving) is both terrible now and a pending UFA?

I can see moving Letang if Marino wants a massive extension, shows he can step into Letang's shoes (like Letang did with Gonchar) and you also have another top-4 RD to play on the 2nd pair, but none of those have happened yet.

 

[Peat]

Here’s the latest from TIOPS....lol...summary is from another poster...

“He basically says, really about Murray and Letang, that missing the rest of the season if it is cancelled is a huge blow to the Penguins in the evaluation of these two, and what to do with them. Penguins really wanted to see what these players brought in the playoffs before making any future decisions. Says Murray's perceived value (not sure if his or around the league) is 7-7.5M, but with a lost season, he might be forced to take a 1-2 year deal right around his current salary.

On Letang, he says the Penguins owe it to themselves to explore trade interest in Letang this summer, without getting cold feet this time. TIOPS claims that Rutherford was keen on moving Letang at the draft last year, until he received backlash from Crosby's inner circle on the morning of the draft that Crosby was strongly opposed to Letang being dealt.”

Another fine cocktail of 75% of what we know and 25% juicing it up

Still not utterly sure about how I feel about trading Letang. Nobody sensible wants to lose the Letang we've seen most of the last two seasons except for a king's ransom, but how long is that Letang going to be around anyway?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah I still really don't know if I see much of a point in speculating about moving Letang at this late date. What's the point? Sure he's going to regress and likely worse than Sid and Geno but they will all be relatively ineffectual and unable to bear the burden of carrying their team right around the same time, I imagine. In other words I feel like the risk is lower simply keeping him and hoping to get more good than bad rather than trading him, reloading with whatever they get and coming up with a successful roster/plan. I have some major issues over the years with Letang but the dude is a top pairing D who fits the mold of the modern NHL. Those just don't grow on trees.

I have to wonder how much discontent is coming from Sullivan's corner? The rumors seem to consistently crop up that he is unhappy with Letang's refusal to adapt his game. Reminds me very much of the smoke re: Malkin last season.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Zucker - Crosby - Guenzel actually

Zucker would be much better with Malkin and Rust. Guentzel-Crosby-Horny 1st line.

 

[Peat]

Sure he's going to regress and likely worse than Sid and Geno but they will all be relatively ineffectual and unable to bear the burden of carrying their team right around the same time, I imagine.

This bit I don't agree with. I think Sid can be a cup winning 1C when he's like 37/38, Yzerman style; he won't carry things like he can now, but he can carry his part of the load. Geno... maybe a few more questions but I think it's a possibility. You're going to need a damn fine team to pull it off but its possible. Letang? I think it's a good chance he's not an impact player by the time his next contract starts and that he's just not a player by 37/38.

I'm not sure how you much I'd worry about that vs chances today, but it's not nothing.

I think a real big part of this equation is how much faith people have in Marino. Last year he looked like a 1D in the making. Even if he just maintains what he was last year, he'd be a big part of a defence by committee that means you maybe don't need a Tanger back. People really happy about trusting a second year guy with that though?

 

[Andy99]

People really happy about trusting a second year guy with that though?

yeah, not really...we’ve seen Petts regress a bit in his sophomore season...Marino could be an exception as he’s been so far but I’m not putting all my eggs in that basket....I see no hurry to ditch Letang...I don’t really understand those rumors to be frank because no other D is capable of filling his offensive shoes...yes, he’s a risk taker and that hurts sometimes but his good is still better than his bad...I wouldn’t re-sign him but I have no problems letting Letang play out the two years left on his contract....his game likely won’t fall off a cliff...if the team is concerned about his mistakes, play him less minutes and on the second pair...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Zucker would be much better with Malkin and Rust. Guentzel-Crosby-Horny 1st line.

Call me crazy but I'd like to see more of Guentzel-Malkin-Rust. Let Geno take the reins for a bit here and let Sid develop something with Zucker.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This bit I don't agree with. I think Sid can be a cup winning 1C when he's like 37/38, Yzerman style; he won't carry things like he can now, but he can carry his part of the load. Geno... maybe a few more questions but I think it's a possibility. You're going to need a damn fine team to pull it off but its possible. Letang? I think it's a good chance he's not an impact player by the time his next contract starts and that he's just not a player by 37/38.

I'm not sure how you much I'd worry about that vs chances today, but it's not nothing.

I think a real big part of this equation is how much faith people have in Marino. Last year he looked like a 1D in the making. Even if he just maintains what he was last year, he'd be a big part of a defence by committee that means you maybe don't need a Tanger back. People really happy about trusting a second year guy with that though?

Any Letang trade would need to involve another top pairing RH defenseman coming back in some way.

I don't think there's a snowball's chance of the Pens dealing Letang given how much rope they've given him over the years, but the team absolutely shouldn't have Marino and f***in...Ruhwedel as their top 2 RH defensemen. That would be suicide.

 

[Peat]

Any Letang trade would need to involve another top pairing RH defenseman coming back in some way.

I don't think there's a snowball's chance of the Pens dealing Letang given how much rope they've given him over the years, but the team absolutely shouldn't have Marino and f***in...Ruhwedel as their top 2 RH defensemen. That would be suicide.

There one hundred per cent needs to be another RH dman coming back in some way, yeah. And ideally we need to bring one in to replace Schultz who's hopefully going (or getting paid peanuts). Completely remodelling the RD does seem a little much.

yeah, not really...we’ve seen Petts regress a bit in his sophomore season...Marino could be an exception as he’s been so far but I’m not putting all my eggs in that basket....I see no hurry to ditch Letang...

Problem with that comparison is Pettersson took a big step forwards in terms of responsibility night to night and that's going to be hard. Marino was already regularly taking on a ton of responsibility. I mean, there's still plenty of examples of sophomore struggles, but Marino is a freak. Maybe he doesn't undergo such struggles at the rest of the mere mortals.

I don’t really understand those rumors to be frank because no other D is capable of filling his offensive shoes...yes, he’s a risk taker and that hurts sometimes but his good is still better than his bad...I wouldn’t re-sign him but I have no problems letting Letang play out the two years left on his contract....his game likely won’t fall off a cliff...if the team is concerned about his mistakes, play him less minutes and on the second pair...

I don't think the last sentence is an option. I think Letang's ego starts to cause more problems than the play is worth if demoted. You either trust him completely (knowing he will betray you from time to time) or you don't. The off the ice aspect matters here. So too does the part where Letang will just not listen and he'll play the only way he knows and you've just got to hope this is one of the good days. Letang isn't a guy where you can compromise around the rough edges - it's whole package or not. Today, that's fine. Tomorrow? I think guys like that are at the biggest risk of ageing out quickly behind guys who are utterly dependent on their physicality.

Not that you're wrong about the good outweighing the bad and having nobody capable of filling his offensive shoes. You just don't replace 1Ds and that's a fact. Contending sides don't sell them if they're sensible. But sensible sides try to trade a season early rather than a season late.

Honestly it feels a bit damned if we do, damned if we don't. I would like Rutherford to at least look at a few options and see what the each extent of damnation looks like.

 

[Gurglesons]

There one hundred per cent needs to be another RH dman coming back in some way, yeah. And ideally we need to bring one in to replace Schultz who's hopefully going (or getting paid peanuts). Completely remodelling the RD does seem a little much.



Problem with that comparison is Pettersson took a big step forwards in terms of responsibility night to night and that's going to be hard. Marino was already regularly taking on a ton of responsibility. I mean, there's still plenty of examples of sophomore struggles, but Marino is a freak. Maybe he doesn't undergo such struggles at the rest of the mere mortals.



I don't think the last sentence is an option. I think Letang's ego starts to cause more problems than the play is worth if demoted. You either trust him completely (knowing he will betray you from time to time) or you don't. The off the ice aspect matters here. So too does the part where Letang will just not listen and he'll play the only way he knows and you've just got to hope this is one of the good days. Letang isn't a guy where you can compromise around the rough edges - it's whole package or not. Today, that's fine. Tomorrow? I think guys like that are at the biggest risk of ageing out quickly behind guys who are utterly dependent on their physicality.

Not that you're wrong about the good outweighing the bad and having nobody capable of filling his offensive shoes. You just don't replace 1Ds and that's a fact. Contending sides don't sell them if they're sensible. But sensible sides try to trade a season early rather than a season late.

Honestly it feels a bit damned if we do, damned if we don't. I would like Rutherford to at least look at a few options and see what the each extent of damnation looks like.

Not sure there is any validity to Letang’s “ego” he has been taken off the top PP for Gogo, Niskanen, Schultz, Daley, etc.