Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread

[Malkinstheman]

Heres Poulins goal

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Heres Poulins goal

Wow

 

[Dangles78]

Heres Poulins goal

Well, damn, that's impressive.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

What the actual hell.

So... how far into the season should we be to talk about the possibility of him making the big team next year?

As of right now- I think you let him play out junior still. I think regardless of whether he could hold his own in the NHL, the Q is better for him long term imo. Easier to work on your game in junior, where in the NHL he’d just be trying to keep up.

Even if he has a great camp I think at most you handle him like the Ducks did Comtois last year.

 

[wej20]

Well, damn, that's impressive.

Not sure why the commentator called it like a tap in.

 

[Peat]

As of right now- I think you let him play out junior still. I think regardless of whether he could hold his own in the NHL, the Q is better for him long term imo. Easier to work on your game in junior, where in the NHL he’d just be trying to keep up.

Even if he has a great camp I think at most you handle him like the Ducks did Comtois last year.

What, plan to keep him up then change your mind after an injury? I know our guys get injured a lot but even so, to be planning on it...

I think that there's open questions as to whether he wouldn't do more than hold his own in the NHL and what more he can learn from competition he's so clearly better than - particularly when his defensive game isn't an issue. Maybe it's early to be asking those questions but he's on track for forcing them.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Why dont more players go to Europe if they are too good for juniors but not ready for the NHL? Is there some rule preventing it or are the costs just not worth it?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Deeper numbers on Poulin among CHL D+1s :

• 6th in ES primary points per game
• 7th in primary points per game
• 2nd in ES goals
• 5th in ES primary points
• 8th in total primary points
• 4th in points per game
• 5th in shots on goal
• 9th in ES primary points per 60 (so not inflated stats from playing 30 min a night)

Then some additional stuff:

• 82.61% of his primary points have come at ES.
• Has primary points on 63% of ES goals scored when he's on the ice
• Points on 80% of ES goals scored when he's on the ice
• Points on 40.6% of teams total ES goals
• Points on 41.1% of teams total goals
• 30 GF, 6 GA at ES when he's on ice. When he's off the ice the rest of Sherbrooke has 29 GF, 19 GA at evens
• His overall shooting % is definitely sustainable for a guy with his talent in junior hockey at 17.44%, so he's not riding a crazy wave at least individually (no idea if the total OI shooting % for him is high).

To me that's the 2nd (Cap's prospect McMichael's numbers are, unfortunately for us, batshit insane) strongest statistical profile among 2019 NHL draftees from the CHL right now. I have not watched him play at all this year besides CAN-RUS series but numbers-wise he's been as good as it gets.

 

[Peat]

Why dont more players go to Europe if they are too good for juniors but not ready for the NHL? Is there some rule preventing it or are the costs just not worth it?

I ask the same question to myself - it'd be financially more rewarding for many - but I think you've got to factor in the possibly huge negatives of struggling with culture shock. Nobody got worse for sticking with juniors.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

What, plan to keep him up then change your mind after an injury? I know our guys get injured a lot but even so, to be planning on it...

I think that there's open questions as to whether he wouldn't do more than hold his own in the NHL and what more he can learn from competition he's so clearly better than - particularly when his defensive game isn't an issue. Maybe it's early to be asking those questions but he's on track for forcing them.

Yeah haha less the injury, more just give him the 9-10 games and practices over the course of the first 2 months, then send back for WJC and 2nd half of QMJHL season. Hayton, Dobson seemingly getting that treatment right now. But I'm even kinda questionable on that, not a fan of the whole on and off scratch system for young guys.

I just put a lot of stock in patience and slow-playing prospects. I think for the non top 5 talents, it's better for their offensive growth, and the risk factor is way better imo. You can totally kill a kid long term if he makes that jump too early, but very rarely is anyone actively hurt by waiting.

 

[wej20]

Why dont more players go to Europe if they are too good for juniors but not ready for the NHL? Is there some rule preventing it or are the costs just not worth it?

Relatively few players are too good for juniors but not good enough for the NHL. It is too much of a risk to go play professionally in Europe (unless it is a Euro player going back to play in his home professional league).

 

[Jacob]

If he keeps up a near-2 PPG pace I could see him sticking in the NHL next year but that might be a big if since there’s still 2/3rds of a season left. What’s unique about him though compared to a lot of prospects is that he has an NHL body and, he’s not like elite defensively, but his play without the puck is better than most 18 year olds. But if you can dominate a full season of juniors and can slide into the top 9 then you have to let him stay. There just might not be any room for him though.

I’m not a believer in the “they have nothing left to prove in juniors” spiel though so I don’t think another year in the Q is going to hurt him.

 

[Peat]

Yeah haha less the injury, more just give him the 9-10 games and practices over the course of the first 2 months, then send back for WJC and 2nd half of QMJHL season. Hayton, Dobson seemingly getting that treatment right now. But I'm even kinda questionable on that, not a fan of the whole on and off scratch system for young guys.

I just put a lot of stock in patience and slow-playing prospects. I think for the non top 5 talents, it's better for their offensive growth, and the risk factor is way better imo. You can totally kill a kid long term if he makes that jump too early, but very rarely is anyone actively hurt by waiting.

I don't think Anaheim would have done that without the injury. Not with him playing that all important 10th game that starts the ELC/waivers clock ticking and scoring 7 points in that. If Poulin got a 9 game stint here and scored 6-7 points in it, he wouldn't be going back. And that's how it should be. There's not a lot of point in them being the work experience kid. Either you think they'll make a difference that year or you send them back to juniors.

And while I'm generally for the slow cook thing, tbh I don't think they're going to get more ready by sticking them back in the oven if they're already ready to make a difference. Sure its the safe thing to do, but that doesn't mean its the right thing to do for every single guy. If you've got a guy ready to go, run with it. This team is strong but not so strong it couldn't use another difference maker. That's what I'd do - and I'm pretty sure that's what Rutherford would do.

And those numbers at least scream potential difference maker. Most top 5 guys who stick in the CHL don't post those kind of numbers in D+1. Obviously there's a difference between Poulin's sample and a full season - but at what point do you start thinking this is just his season and not just a hot start?

I don't want to assume he'll do it until he's done it. But there's definitely a possibility opening up.

If he keeps up a near-2 PPG pace I could see him sticking in the NHL next year but that might be a big if since there’s still 2/3rds of a season left. What’s unique about him though compared to a lot of prospects is that he has an NHL body and, he’s not like elite defensively, but his play without the puck is better than most 18 year olds. But if you can dominate a full season of juniors and can slide into the top 9 then you have to let him stay. There just might not be any room for him though.

I’m not a believer in the “they have nothing left to prove in juniors” spiel though so I don’t think another year in the Q is going to hurt him.

That there might be the most important factor but if there's any year for a kid to force his way in early, its probably the year after a giant cap crunch. I think we're going to lose at least two forwards and possibly more.

Having a Head Coach who'll play expensive forwards on the bottom line and a GM who can sometime go a bit mental crowbarring in a young player he believes in probably helps here too.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

What the actual hell.

So... how far into the season should we be to talk about the possibility of him making the big team next year?

Never. It’s how he looks if he sees AHL time at the end of the season. You wait until training camp and the preseason to see how he looks there, and then it’s the 9 game tryout to see how he looks. It’s great if he has an amazing season but it’s still a significant leap to the NHL and we’re mostly not seeing him play. In September it was that Legare is the better prospect and less than 2 months later it shouldn’t be that Poulin will be ready next season. He could be ready but you don’t count on it and set everyone up for a letdown.

Emotional answer. Now.

Guentzel-Crosby
Poulin-Malkin

 

[Peat]

Never. It’s how he looks if he sees AHL time at the end of the season. You wait until training camp and the preseason to see how he looks there, and then it’s the 9 game tryout to see how he looks. It’s great if he has an amazing season but it’s still a significant leap to the NHL and we’re mostly not seeing him play. In September it was that Legare is the better prospect and less than 2 months later it shouldn’t be that Poulin will be ready next season. He could be ready but you don’t count on it and set everyone up for a letdown.

Emotional answer. Now.

Guentzel-Crosby
Poulin-Malkin

I'm not quite sure when the Q playoffs run compared to the AHL's, but given that Sherbrooke are arguably the best team in the Q - maybe the whole CHL - right now, it'd be a mild surprise if he was available for any AHL time.

And while your logical answer is reasonable, I think people need to get on board with Jiggyfly's message of getting excited for the kids and then just shrugging if it goes wrong. Right now I'm talking possibility, not he definitely will.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I’m not a believer in the “they have nothing left to prove in juniors” spiel though so I don’t think another year in the Q is going to hurt him.

I think this applies to a rare breed, but the problem is people often use it for any player who has an even slightly dominant junior season.

Crosby had nothing left to prove at age 18, but just because a kid scores 100+ points in his league, doesn't mean he's in that category.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'm not quite sure when the Q playoffs run compared to the AHL's, but given that Sherbrooke are arguably the best team in the Q - maybe the whole CHL - right now, it'd be a mild surprise if he was available for any AHL time.

And while your logical answer is reasonable, I think people need to get on board with Jiggyfly's message of getting excited for the kids and then just shrugging if it goes wrong. Right now I'm talking possibility, not he definitely will.

Unless they are eliminated early, I don’t think he’d see AHL time but hockey can be weird.

I like my pessimistic bubble. Mainly I think there’s a difference between getting excited and getting overly excited. The possibility of him being ready is there. Right now he’s doing what you’d want him to in order to move towards that but people should get excited for what that means in the bigger picture, imo. Less than 2 months ago he wasn’t ready and great production shouldn’t erase that. Eye catching numbers now bode well for the future.

Maybe he will be. What he’s doing makes that more likely and it points to high expectations for his future.

 

[JTG]

Why dont more players go to Europe if they are too good for juniors but not ready for the NHL? Is there some rule preventing it or are the costs just not worth it?

I think a lot of it comes down to culture and being around family, but I would imagine there is a lure to young hockey players in Canada playing for teams they have grown up watching.

If he keeps up a near-2 PPG pace I could see him sticking in the NHL next year but that might be a big if since there’s still 2/3rds of a season left. What’s unique about him though compared to a lot of prospects is that he has an NHL body and, he’s not like elite defensively, but his play without the puck is better than most 18 year olds. But if you can dominate a full season of juniors and can slide into the top 9 then you have to let him stay. There just might not be any room for him though.

I’m not a believer in the “they have nothing left to prove in juniors” spiel though so I don’t think another year in the Q is going to hurt him.

I agree. For me he would have to prove consistently over the course of camp that he is far and away one of the 6 best wingers in camp. If there is one shred of doubt I'd send him back. One more year in the Q wouldn't hurt him, and the net year he will get into the A, and if he is ready he will be up within a few games.

 

[Peat]

I agree. For me he would have to prove consistently over the course of camp that he is far and away one of the 6 best wingers in camp. If there is one shred of doubt I'd send him back. One more year in the Q wouldn't hurt him, and the net year he will get into the A, and if he is ready he will be up within a few games.

I think that's what he'd have to prove to everyone. My question wasn't meant to be "would you declare him ready now" because that's obviously no for all.

It was more meant to be "what's the chance his trajectory lands on ready next summer"- 1 in 20? 1 in 10? 1 in 6? What's the chance if he around this pace in another 20 games? Whole season?

Obviously it is early and we don't have enough info but for most of our guys it's 1 in 100 for next summer if not worse. It'd be a borderline miracle. Poulin feels like an actual possibility - that's what I'm getting at.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

If adding Poulin to the team next year wouldn't hurt his development then they should def do it. Since we want him to get more comfortable with Geno/Sid as they age. If we wait another year then Geno is going on 35...Sid 34.

We see plenty of players come up at 19 and hold their own, but the following year is when they take off. If he sticks next year he would be 19 to start the season but turns 20 in Feb. And with him already having the size/build to play in NHL, Id like to see him start his time with our top guys asap. 2020. Who knows, could have a Guentzel like impact for those playoffs. We have seen him up his game come playoff time and thats what matters most.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

One goal and two assists for Legare tonight.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

Impressive total of 8 pts in 11 games on the year for Phillips. One goal and one assist tonight against his former team.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

One goal and two assists for Legare tonight.

I'm excited as Hell for Poulin and Legare. I know Poulin is crushing it, and I hope Legare follows suit.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Phillips’ goal starts at 0:55 and he should be the guy getting the secondary assist on the next one.