News Article: Pittsburgh Magazine Roundtable Part II & III: Systems, Meltdowns and the Locker-Room

[SEALBound]

Very much so. There's not much to like about the bottom 6 right now.

Indeed. But I will credit JTG with his point of the injuries making it difficult.

Once everyone is healthy you can have:

Jokinen/Bennett-Sutter-Megna/Gibbon
Glass(let's face it...)-Vitale-Adams(let's face it...)

which isn't all bad. Bennett, Megna, and Gibbons are all speedy young guys that offer a decent amount of skill. Couple that with a average shutdown center and I think you have a workable 3rd line. That's not to say it couldn't be upgraded in a big way. If we can bring in a 1RW and Dupuis comes back, it will be that much stronger. In that case I would want:

Kunitz-Sid-Wing
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams (let's face it...)

Very well balanced. Speed, skill, grit on every line. Secretly, I dream of ROR.

 

[Til the End of Time]

a lot of people were saying that the penguins bottom six is among the worst in league, and now more than half-way through the season they've played exactly as expected-- awful.

now the penguins can either play an exorbitant price for bottom six players at the deadline or just have the worst bottom six in the playoffs.

either way this was a stupid strategy and should have been addressed earlier.

 

[The Old Master]

a lot of people were saying that the penguins bottom six is among the worst in league, and now more than half-way through the season they've played exactly as expected-- awful.

now the penguins can either play an exorbitant price for bottom six players at the deadline or just have the worst bottom six in the playoffs.

either way this was a stupid strategy and should have been addressed earlier.

you can fix the bottom six by getting better players for our top six and bumping others down, imo

 

[The Big Dawg*]

a lot of people were saying that the penguins bottom six is among the worst in league, and now more than half-way through the season they've played exactly as expected-- awful.

now the penguins can either play an exorbitant price for bottom six players at the deadline or just have the worst bottom six in the playoffs.

either way this was a stupid strategy and should have been addressed earlier.

It can still addressed by packaging Letang for a winger and some depth for the bottom 6. We'd be killing two birds with 1 stone. Take care of some of the problems with our depth and truthfully with letang in the lineup, i feel like we play too much of a run n gun style of hockey and i wouldn't mind seeing that gone.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

you can fix the bottom six by getting better players for our top six and bumping others down, imo

Or just playing the better players we have over the crappy ones, they can very easily improve the bottom 6 with their own personnel. That would just require being healthy and Bylsma having an epiphany.

Gibbons/Jokinen/trade - Sutter - Megna
Sill - Vitale - Engelland

It's a noted improvement over

Kobasew - Sutter - idk
Glass - Vitale - Adams

That would at most only require trading for one player either to push Jokinen down or a third line winger.

 

[KIRK]

It can still addressed by packaging Letang for a winger and some depth for the bottom 6. We'd be killing two birds with 1 stone. Take care of some of the problems with our depth and truthfully with letang in the lineup, i feel like we play too much of a run n gun style of hockey and i wouldn't mind seeing that gone.

Letang for ROR and McGinn.

P.S.: It kills 3 birds.

 

[SEALBound]

Letang for ROR and McGinn.

P.S.: It kills 3 birds.

Letang+Adams

for

ROR+McGinn

4 Birds!

 

[KIRK]

Letang+Adams

for

ROR+McGinn

4 Birds!

Really, there needs to be a limit to our wishful thinking, and I'm afraid Adams being moved is it.

Pin your hopes to more realistic things, like winning a 300M Powerball.

 

[JTG]

If we paid any quality 3rd liners a decent salary, you'd have a vocal portion of this board that would lose their minds.

 

[ColePens]

ColePens should be in this round table. I'll smoke all the Pens PR guys who just to make them sound good.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

If we paid any quality 3rd liners a decent salary, you'd have a vocal portion of this board that would lose their minds.

Isn't that already the case with Dupuis?

 

[MrBurghundy]

ColePens should be in this round table. I'll smoke all the Pens PR guys who just to make them sound good.

Are you referring to yourself in the 3rd person?

 

[Tender Rip]

Interesting read if nothing else. Lots of things to make you want to kill puppies over also.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Are you referring to yourself in the 3rd person?

 

[Michael8771*]

Letang for ROR and McGinn.

P.S.: It kills 3 birds.

IMO that's as close to perfect as I could think of regarding a trade.

 

[zidell*]

I agree about the secondary scoring. I don't agree that you give Cooke that deal, he's cooled off significantly since the start of the year, and can no longer provide consistent scoring from the 3rd line.

But I would much rather add two solid top 9 wingers with futures and impending UFA's than gut the system for one good wing. It will be a lot more realistic to acquire those players too.

Sigh. It's not the scoring so much as controlling the play. Why are Penguin fans so obsessed with scoring when the team is already near the top in tht category?

I realize that Cooke was too expensive. That doesn't mean that they don't need guys like him. If Shro would draft some forwards, maybe they'd have some cheap elc's to play the role. Well, maybe Megna will help.

 

[zidell*]

a lot of people were saying that the penguins bottom six is among the worst in league, and now more than half-way through the season they've played exactly as expected-- awful.

now the penguins can either play an exorbitant price for bottom six players at the deadline or just have the worst bottom six in the playoffs.

either way this was a stupid strategy and should have been addressed earlier.

Bingo. The deadline is the most expensive time to fix a problem. He can't **** the organization by giving away 2 more #2 and #1 picks. Shero should have headed off this glaring issue off last summer. It's hard to image what he was thinking.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I love this quote:

Rossi: This Penguins team isn't hard to figure. They are built with their best players to dominate in the playoffs, and the NHL has decided recently to let its officiating turn the playoffs into tackle football with each advancing round. These Penguins’ superstars do not handle themselves well emotionally. So, basically, the playoffs become their Pandoras box.

If you're built with your best players to dominate in the playoffs, then why send each of them out there with one arm tied behind his back?

If you're built to win when Sid and Geno dominate, then do everything you can-- not just tactically but in terms of personnel-- to set them up to do that.

If you're worried about cap space, then start using all of those young defensemen on rookie deals and in controlled years instead of using 'marginally better' (a highly debatable proposition) veterans.

God, **** like this is just SO infuriating. Pravda was more open and honest.



Rocco: I will say this right now, up front. I don’t think Brooks Orpik is the leader everyone wants him to be. I think he’d rather blame Malkin or Crosby than step up for them. I think you are right in saying this could be a problem down the line when things get tight in the playoffs. I think that is why we saw the trades for Brenden Morrow and Jarome Iginla last season, but neither one wanted that role. Leaders like Guerin and Gonchar don’t grow on trees, and any trade you make is a guess.

On the first point, I think talking about 'tackle football' in the playoffs is letting everybody off the hook here. Do people remember what the NHL looked like in 1995? Now THAT was tackle football on ice. Players could literally water-ski while hanging onto players who were trying to maneuver inside the offensive zone. It was awful. And it very clearly hindered skill players.

Nowadays? Nah. People want to believe that shutting down the Penguins in the playoffs has been a very difficult task, something that has been aided by officiating and external factors. But the simple truth is it really hasn't been that hard to shut the Penguins down in the playoffs. Staunch defensive systems, shutdown D-men, shutdown centers, a hot goaltender. Sure, the officiating isn't where THIS team would want it, but it's where it usually is come playoff time. Adjustments aren't being made (shockingly, right) by this team in the playoffs. Excuses are for losers, this team has deserved their playoff fate since '09.

On the second point, I disagree with the notion that Morrow and Iginla "didn't want" the role of leader here. It's pretty hard to be a leader when you are in and out of the lineup, up and down the lineup (as Morrow was), or when you don't seem to have a role on the team (as Iginla did). Iggy was 'the man' in Calgary, he came here and his coach basically drew him the short straw, what was he supposed to do?

Iggy EASILY could have been a Guerin-like leader for this team...but he never got Guerin's role (Crosby's RW).

 

[Shwag33]

Bingo. The deadline is the most expensive time to fix a problem. He can't **** the organization by giving away 2 more #2 and #1 picks. Shero should have headed off this glaring issue off last summer. It's hard to image what he was thinking.

I keep hearing this, but going into this year everyone that has an opinion worth anything should know this was going to be a SUPER lean year.

Cap went waaay down. I could have told you the bottom 6 was going to be lean the day after they signed the CBA. They'll be able to restock after this year.

 

[Shady Machine]

I keep hearing this, but going into this year everyone that has an opinion worth anything should know this was going to be a SUPER lean year.

Cap went waaay down. I could have told you the bottom 6 was going to be lean the day after they signed the CBA. They'll be able to restock after this year.

I guess it depends on what your expectations are for a restock. I am convinced one of Nisky, Orpik is getting re-signed (hopefully neither but I understand if it's Nisky). Nisky would get around $4mil. Assuming that and a top 6 of KCD and Bennet-Malkin-Neal, then yeah we can re-stock the 3rd line. If you want an actual upgrade for Sid, then not so much.

There are definitely options, but re-signing Niskanen or Orpik means we will see the same top 6 and a few scraps in the bottom 6.

 

[zidell*]

I keep hearing this, but going into this year everyone that has an opinion worth anything should know this was going to be a SUPER lean year.

Cap went waaay down. I could have told you the bottom 6 was going to be lean the day after they signed the CBA. They'll be able to restock after this year.

Exactly how are they going to restock when the cap increase is already committed to new contracts for Letang and Malkin plus needing a new contract. And then they have to resign Despres. If anything, they are more like to have to dump players rather than to add them.

 

[Richard]

Until we have actual hockey players on the 3rd and 4th lines, not scrubs, this team is going nowhere fast. We need two or three forwards and none for the top 2 lines.

 

[Shady Machine]

Exactly how are they going to restock when the cap increase is already committed to new contracts for Letang and Malkin plus needing a new contract. And then they have to resign Despres. If anything, they are more like to have to dump players rather than to add them.

You are exaggerating. Here is a roster for next year without Despres (I'm assuming the worst and he is dumped for a rental):


CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) /
Jayson Megna ($0.874m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.500m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Zach Sill ($0.600m) / Joe Vitale ($0.700m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m)
Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.605m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Matt Niskanen ($4.000m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,229,958; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $4,870,042

That assumes we keep Niskanen for 4mil (not what I want to do but could see Ray doing it) and Sutter at 3.5 (he could get 4+ I suppose but his numbers haven't been particularly strong). IF you keep Duper with Sid, then that gives you about 4mil to fill out the 3rd line or 4mil for Sid's winger. Certainly not ideal, but not terrible.

Now if they let Niskanen walk, and assuming we don't trade Despres (which is my preference), that would give us 6mil+ for Sid's winger.

 

[WVP]

Letang for ROR and McGinn.

P.S.: It kills 3 birds.

It does accomplish a lot for the roster. A bit of a team attitude adjustment as well, with a hot head in Letang leaving and someone who projects well for the playoffs coming in.

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($5.500m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Jamie McGinn ($1.850m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.000m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Jayson Megna ($0.874m) / Joe Vitale ($0.750m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m)
Brian Gibbons ($0.605m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Matt Niskanen ($4.000m)
Simon Despres ($1.000m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) /

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,279,958; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,820,042

First and second lines are set, and solid. The 3rd line becomes incredibly more competent in all 3 zones, as both McGinn and Dupuis are capable of chipping in 20 goals. Megna and Vitale ensure the 4th line brings speed every night, and Gibbons is a spare part for cap purposes (put anyone there).

Defense is young but talented. Martin and Scuds bring veteran stability. Puck movers on each pairing still. Scuderi and Niskanen have played well together this year. Dumoulin splits time with Bortuzzo.

And there's still plenty of cap room left, so room to play with if my cap hits are off a bit.

 

[Shady Machine]

I love that line up WVP. Trading Letang really fixes more problems that it causes IMO. That defense is very well balanced as well. Too bad it won't happen.