News Article: Pittsburgh Magazine Roundtable Part II & III: Systems, Meltdowns and the Locker-Room

[BrunoPuntzJones]

i would rather them get fired if they do their job poorly than for something bad to happen to them personally. that is a rotten attitude to have over a damn sports team.

For a guy trying to work in medicine, that creep wishes an awful lot of misfortune on people. What a ****ing loon.

 

[Shady Machine]

This is pure fantasy. First, you don't know what the cap will be. The Candian dollar going down the drain will reduce and increase. Second, ou can't spend to the cap. Every team leave $500-750k spare change. Third, Orpik isn't going anywhere. Fourth, you've got the roster filled out with 4 minimum wage nobodies at forward. They might have a couple million to spare, but it won't be enough to buy much of anything.

What the hell are you talking about? That 71mil is the projected cap for next year that has floated around from the NHL. So it's not my cap, that's what the NHL thinks the cap will be next year. Secondly, I wasn't suggesting spending to the cap. As you can see, there is 4.8 million cap space there and I said that gives us 4mil for Sid's winger, leaving almost 800k left over. Thirdly, who told you Orpik wasn't going anywhere? You can't call my post a fantasy and then call your guess reality.

Fourthly, this was a sample of how the cap situation would look if they traded Despres for a rental (something that has been suggested recently), re-signed Sutter and Niskanen, and let Orpik walk. I believe the team will sign one of Orpik, Niskanen. I hope it's Niskanen if they sign either.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

That's probably what it's going to be anywhere else too. That's what it costs to get a young impact winger signed for a long term deal.

Unless...you trade an established player instead. And we're in the position right now to do that instead of trading away more of the future, imo.

Winnipeg needs a goaltender. Martin Brodeur wants to play beyond this season. Trade Fleury to Winnipeg for a winger (Kane, Wheeler, Byfuglien, I don't care), get Brodeur, keep Pouliot, Despres and the 1st rounder.

Not a terrible thought, depending on what it'd take to get Brodeur of course.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Unless...you trade an established player instead. And we're in the position right now to do that instead of trading away more of the future, imo.

Winnipeg needs a goaltender. Martin Brodeur wants to play beyond this season. Trade Fleury to Winnipeg for a winger (Kane, Wheeler, Byfuglien, I don't care), get Brodeur, keep Pouliot, Despres and the 1st rounder.

Not a terrible thought, depending on what it'd take to get Brodeur of course.

It's going to take more then just Fleury to get that done. He also has 1 year only left on his deal after this season. It would be too risky for a team like Winnipeg. They can go after Miller or Hiller for example and keep those young players as well

 

[Jag68Sid87]

It's going to take more then just Fleury to get that done. He also has 1 year only left on his deal after this season. It would be too risky for a team like Winnipeg. They can go after Miller or Hiller for example and keep those young players as well

But Miller won't sign with Winnipeg and Hiller isn't being traded, and the Jets need a goaltender pretty badly.

I wouldn't pay more than that. And, we have to get a goalie first or else it doesn't work.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Oh, DP, Bennett and a 1st. That is still a big price. I'd probably not do that still.

I do that move in a heartbeat. I like Beau, but he's fragile, and will NEVER have the speed Wheeler does.

Wheeler and Sid would be unfair.

 

[MtlPenFan]

And while Rossi's an oaf, tell me that you don't look at the way Despres is treated and tell me it's not just the coaching staff that sees him as some sort of marginal player.

 

[JWells16]

From Part I, regarding Letang:

Mueller: Letang is a freak athlete. He’s one of those players who should captivate a layman NBA-lover like me and make me say, "Wow, hockey is a beautiful game" while he's making an outrageous pass or joining the rush and rifling a wrist shot past a helpless goalie. Instead, I watch games and see him use his closing speed to chase a player that got loose because of an ill-advised pinch. The dude chased the play behind the opposition net 30 SECONDS into the game against Winnipeg and left Chris Kunitz exposed against Evander Kane. Brilliant.

All of this is an overly wordy way of saying the following: Kris Letang's problem is that he's too gifted for his own good. The truly great athletes recognize that no matter how skilled they are physically, true excellence pivots off of the idea of consistent evolution. Crosby refined his scoring touch. LeBron James developed a post-up game. Letang isn't in their stratosphere, but physically he isn't far off. Problem is, I think he looks in the mirror and already sees himself in a cape, bronzed, and not as a perpetually incomplete project, always requiring tweaks.

Sadly, I completely agree with this.

Marshall: This is true. Ready for the flip side of Letang? The bad news is you won't find his name anywhere near the league leaders for defense. He was on the ice for 22 goals against last year and was the worst on the team in goals against per 60 minutes of even strength ice time at 2.79.

Oy...

Rossi: A teammate once told me that Letang watches more video than any player he has ever known. This teammate was Hal Gill, who has played with several organizations. I bring this up because coaches have often pushed Letang to watch less video. Their complaint is that he micro-analyzes a fault seen on film then ends up screwing himself up in games because he becomes obsessed with correcting that fault. A coach told me that Letang always grades his worst in games after breaks or absences, but that when Letang can string together games consistently, he finds a comfort level that elevates him above most defensemen because his natural skill set takes over.

This, I was not expecting to hear at all.

Rossi: Want to know what Kris Letang means to the Penguins, in a nutshell? He graded as their highest defensemen for the 2009 playoffs. Not Gonchar. Not Orpik. Not Scuderi. Shero could never shake the image of the Letang he witnessed during the 2009 Final, the one who took Marian Hossa completely out of that series. Current management views Letang and Olli Maatta as the pairing of the future. Might be worth considering when thinking about potential trades.

I miss that Letang.

 

[Gurglesons]

This, I was not expecting to hear at all.

Why would you not expect this? Letang has been cited as being one of the hardest workers on our team for years now. Dude trains with UFC fighters.

He's having a bad year. Paul Martin did too. Evgeni Malkin has had a couple even. Give it time, and/or a new system.

 

[Beauner]

Why would you not expect this? Letang has been cited as being one of the hardest workers on our team for years now. Dude trains with UFC fighters.

He's having a bad year. Paul Martin did too. Evgeni Malkin has had a couple even. Give it time, and/or a new system.

That's another thing to keep in mind in regards to Letang. How many threads/posts called for Malkin or Martin to be traded during their off years? Doesn't seem like such a good idea now. If you want to argue that his salary could be spent better elsewhere, fine, but just remember that he very well may find his groove again and play like the #1 Norris nominee we all saw a couple years ago.

 

[Shwag33]

That's another thing to keep in mind in regards to Letang. How many threads/posts called for Malkin or Martin to be traded during their off years? Doesn't seem like such a good idea now. If you want to argue that his salary could be spent better elsewhere, fine, but just remember that he very well may find his groove again and play like the #1 Norris nominee we all saw a couple years ago.

That's not a bad point, but I was never nervous giving malkin the money he got. I was against giving that much to letang from the getgo.

 

[JTG]

I have said for years that Letang smacks of a player who has simply gotten by at every single level of hockey on his skill alone. He hasn't had to try to be better because he just simply is. When you start playing against the best in the world for 20 mins a game though...your skill is great, but they will find ways to expose you. Letang is being exposed, partially.

The other part of his problem is that he just cannot help himself. He's like a puppy watching a biscuit and he has absolutely no impulse control. When he sees an opportunity to pinch, he just cannot help himself, where if he were a Lidstrom, he'd know that if he pinches, he's leaving his partner high and dry, and it is a situation that can turn ugly in a quick hurry. Part of being a truly excellent hockey player is being able to calculate risk on the fly. That's part of the evolution of a player. Letang needs to evolve his decision making, and right now, his decision making is piss poor at best.

 

[cygnus47]

I do that move in a heartbeat. I like Beau, but he's fragile, and will NEVER have the speed Wheeler does.

Wheeler and Sid would be unfair.

He isn't fragile, he's friggin unlucky. He's been cut by a blade, caught a rut and hurt his knee and broke his wrist. Even Adams would have been injured by those things. He isn't tearing ligaments or pulling muscles or getting shoulder injuries, he's fine.

 

[WVP]

I have said for years that Letang smacks of a player who has simply gotten by at every single level of hockey on his skill alone. He hasn't had to try to be better because he just simply is. When you start playing against the best in the world for 20 mins a game though...your skill is great, but they will find ways to expose you. Letang is being exposed, partially.

The other part of his problem is that he just cannot help himself. He's like a puppy watching a biscuit and he has absolutely no impulse control. When he sees an opportunity to pinch, he just cannot help himself, where if he were a Lidstrom, he'd know that if he pinches, he's leaving his partner high and dry, and it is a situation that can turn ugly in a quick hurry. Part of being a truly excellent hockey player is being able to calculate risk on the fly. That's part of the evolution of a player. Letang needs to evolve his decision making, and right now, his decision making is piss poor at best.

Your second paragraph may very well be true, but I have to take issue with the first paragraph. We're talking about the biggest film guy on the team, who's notorious for being in top notch physical condition. That doesn't jive with someone that gets by on skill alone. Getting by on skill alone: Ribeiro. Byfuglien. Lemieux.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Part I was interesting.

Using the 'if Rossi is to be believed' (and, in this case, there's no harm in this info having been shared with him), Shero was offered for Letang by 'other teams' (probably one) a top five pick and a pick of top prospect. I suspect that was Carolina. Can't see it having been Colorado. Maybe Nashville or TB or FLA.

I recall a few people talking about a few of those teams as targets when the fun before the draft with Letang speculation was going on.

More likely Tampa, they have been trying to shore up their defense for a while.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Your second paragraph may very well be true, but I have to take issue with the first paragraph. We're talking about the biggest film guy on the team, who's notorious for being in top notch physical condition. That doesn't jive with someone that gets by on skill alone. Getting by on skill alone: Ribeiro. Byfuglien. Lemieux.

The fact that he does all of that and still isn't showing visible improvements after the huge contract he signed, worries me a lot. I like the potential of Letang being a top 2 defenseman at both ends of the rink, but it seems like makes the same kind of mistakes every time and isn't learning from it.

If we're talking about a guy that is huge on studying game tape, etc, you have to wonder, how much is he learning from the videos? OR absorbing I mean.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I do that move in a heartbeat. I like Beau, but he's fragile, and will NEVER have the speed Wheeler does.

Wheeler and Sid would be unfair.

He's more unlucky than he is fragile, fragile was someone like Mark Eaton for a while. He's had some freak injuries that people can't avoid in situations like that, it happens.

 

[Michael8771*]

He's more unlucky than he is fragile, fragile was someone like Mark Eaton for a while. He's had some freak injuries that people can't avoid in situations like that, it happens.

Well, then he's very very unlucky.

 

[Lustaf]

From part three:

"Pouliot got a lot better at the World Junior Championships as the tournament went on, and he can be a game-changing type player offensively. But the Penguins already have one of those in Kris Letang."

and this:

"Shero would move Despres for just about any decent hockey deal right now."

.....Just trade Letang now and keep the kids. I want to break something.

 

[JTG]

Your second paragraph may very well be true, but I have to take issue with the first paragraph. We're talking about the biggest film guy on the team, who's notorious for being in top notch physical condition. That doesn't jive with someone that gets by on skill alone. Getting by on skill alone: Ribeiro. Byfuglien. Lemieux.

Remove skill...insert physical gifts. He's an athletic freak, and yeah he does work hard. I'd never take that away from him. My point was that at every level, and even his early years in the NHL when he wasn't facing the level of competition he is now, he could skate around guys, and stickhandle through them, and get deep in the O zone and get back before any damage was done. Now that he's taking on the matchups he is, he has to realize that he's playing guys as skilled as he is. You get in deep while AO is on the ice, he'll burn you. You start dipsy doodling at the blueline when Bergeron is on the ice, he'll kill you.

And I have never heard him being the biggest film guy on the team, but if he's the biggest film guy and he still routinely has defensive breakdowns after being so schooled in the system...that's not good.

 

[Til the End of Time]

there is a difference between working hard and working smart.

letang definitely does the former but sadly the latter just isnt there, probably due to a combination of poor coaching and a poor hockey mind.

 

[Lamar Latrell]

Remove skill...insert physical gifts. He's an athletic freak, and yeah he does work hard.

Calling them gifts detracts from the work he's put in. But yes, I think everyone wishes he would improve his on-ice decision making. I don't think it's for lack of trying in any regard, though.

 

[Valarukar]

I get the sense from him that when he is watching tape, he isn't thinking how can I be a better defender, he is thinking how can I not **** up and still play however I want to. Also I think it's probably encouraged by the coaching staff.

 

[JTG]

Calling them gifts detracts from the work he's put in. But yes, I think everyone wishes he would improve his on-ice decision making. I don't think it's for lack of trying in any regard, though.

Not really. The things he is able to do on the ice aren't gained by going to the gym. They are God given. His strength and conditioning are just something in addition to his physical gifts.

 

[Riptide]

Dupuis scored 20 a year next to Crosby too. Wheeler brings much more and is a natural winger.

Dupuis has done that what... twice? Wheeler almost certainly isn't available. Gagner (reportedly is).