News Article: Pittsburgh Magazine Roundtable Part II & III: Systems, Meltdowns and the Locker-Room

[IcedCapp]

I still think they would put ROR on Malkin's line.

He would fill all of the deficiencies that line has, or is perceived to have.

The only way I see him playing with Crosby is if they are specifically going to target Kulemin (or someone identical) in the off-season

 

[Shockmaster]

IMO that's as close to perfect as I could think of regarding a trade.

That would be robbery on the part of the Avs. Letang would bring back MUCH more than that.

 

[WVP]

I love that line up WVP. Trading Letang really fixes more problems that it causes IMO. That defense is very well balanced as well. Too bad it won't happen.

I like it too. Definitely a cup caliber group of forwards. The defense could use a bit more, uh, truculence but that's my only complaint.

 

[Til the End of Time]

On the first point, I think talking about 'tackle football' in the playoffs is letting everybody off the hook here. Do people remember what the NHL looked like in 1995? Now THAT was tackle football on ice. Players could literally water-ski while hanging onto players who were trying to maneuver inside the offensive zone. It was awful. And it very clearly hindered skill players.

Nowadays? Nah. People want to believe that shutting down the Penguins in the playoffs has been a very difficult task, something that has been aided by officiating and external factors. But the simple truth is it really hasn't been that hard to shut the Penguins down in the playoffs. Staunch defensive systems, shutdown D-men, shutdown centers, a hot goaltender. Sure, the officiating isn't where THIS team would want it, but it's where it usually is come playoff time. Adjustments aren't being made (shockingly, right) by this team in the playoffs. Excuses are for losers, this team has deserved their playoff fate since '09.

On the second point, I disagree with the notion that Morrow and Iginla "didn't want" the role of leader here. It's pretty hard to be a leader when you are in and out of the lineup, up and down the lineup (as Morrow was), or when you don't seem to have a role on the team (as Iginla did). Iggy was 'the man' in Calgary, he came here and his coach basically drew him the short straw, what was he supposed to do?

Iggy EASILY could have been a Guerin-like leader for this team...but he never got Guerin's role (Crosby's RW).

agreed. makes me rage when i hear that. just a lame excuse trumpeted by losers. no one was complaining about obstruction when the pens won the cup.

everyone knows the refs swallow there whistles in the postseason. it should come as no surprise to the players, coach, or gm. either adapt and prepare for the obstruction or continue to be epic losers.

 

[MeticulouslyDishevel]

On the second point, I disagree with the notion that Morrow and Iginla "didn't want" the role of leader here. It's pretty hard to be a leader when you are in and out of the lineup, up and down the lineup (as Morrow was), or when you don't seem to have a role on the team (as Iginla did). Iggy was 'the man' in Calgary, he came here and his coach basically drew him the short straw, what was he supposed to do?

Iggy EASILY could have been a Guerin-like leader for this team...but he never got Guerin's role (Crosby's RW).

Yeah, I don't blame Iggy at all. I'd imagine it would be tough to come into a locker room at the trade deadline and immediately assume a strong leadership role. It probably takes some time to suss out the situation/internal politics, make sure that you don't upset the wanna-be leaders (ahem Orpik) and delicate egos. Add in the fact that Sid went down right when Iginla arrived and I could see him being reluctant to overstep his bounds.

 

[cygnus47]

And Bylsma didn't put him in a position to succeed. Its hard to demand more from others than you manage to achieve, even if its not your fault.

 

[DoktorZaius]

Part 3: http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/B...uld-Ray-Shero-Wheel-and-Deal-at-the-Deadline/

Rossi: Shero would move Despres for just about any decent hockey deal right now.

I hope this is just Rossi being Rossi. The talk of him being an even swap for Sam Gagner is just ridiculous undervaluing of Despres.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Well there's the confirmation that Despres is untouchable.

 

[WVP]

Part 3: http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/B...uld-Ray-Shero-Wheel-and-Deal-at-the-Deadline/



I hope this is just Rossi being Rossi. The talk of him being an even swap for Sam Gagner is just ridiculous undervaluing of Despres.

Just came here to post that. Wish they would have pushed Rossi for clarification there.

Jeez. You gotta wonder what we're missing, regarding Despres. A lot of smart hockey people in our organization apparently don't think much of him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Part 3: http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/B...uld-Ray-Shero-Wheel-and-Deal-at-the-Deadline/



I hope this is just Rossi being Rossi. The talk of him being an even swap for Sam Gagner is just ridiculous undervaluing of Despres.

I would trade Despres for Gagner straight up in literally one second.

He's exactly the player Jokinen is in terms of versatility except he is younger and plays a grittier game. Not to mention the fact that him and Sid are buds, and the dude is only 23 years old. He could break out for 60 - 70 points playing with a playmaker like Crosby.

If we can get Sam Gagner who has been in the NHL for five years and signed for the next two at a decent cap hit for a d-man who has bounced between AHL and NHL for three or four we should definitely do it.

 

[WVP]

Despres for Gagner straight up...........or.............Maatta for Wheeler straight up?

Since our staff doesn't like Despres, moving Maatta hardly seems like an option.

 

[Gurglesons]

Despres for Gagner straight up...........or.............Maatta for Wheeler straight up?

Since our staff doesn't like Despres, moving Maatta hardly seems like an option.

To be honest, with our injury issues we should take the guy that can fill the second line center position rather than the more attractive goal scorer. If Kuni and Gagner are potting 20 a year between Crosby, do we really need another 30 goal scorer?

 

[WVP]

Dupuis scored 20 a year next to Crosby too. Wheeler brings much more and is a natural winger.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Part 3: http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/B...uld-Ray-Shero-Wheel-and-Deal-at-the-Deadline/

I hope this is just Rossi being Rossi. The talk of him being an even swap for Sam Gagner is just ridiculous undervaluing of Despres.

I like Despres a lot and would prefer the Penguins keep him, but if you think a straight up trade of him for an established NHL forward who averaged 40+ points on a bad team and looked set to break out last year and has a manageable contract is a ridiculous undervaluing, your sense of his value is totally unrealistic.

 

[JTG]

Part 3: http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/B...uld-Ray-Shero-Wheel-and-Deal-at-the-Deadline/



I hope this is just Rossi being Rossi. The talk of him being an even swap for Sam Gagner is just ridiculous undervaluing of Despres.

That's...odd. And I have a hard time believing it. I don't think someone would have to overpay for Despres, but to suggest merely a decent hockey trade would send Despres packing seems a bit much to me.

 

[Shrimper]

Conboy: It’s March 4. Your alarm goes off: Beethoven. You roll over. Your wife: beautiful. Your life: unreal. Your shaving cream: luxurious. Your bathrobe: cheetah fur. You look in the mirror. YOU’RE RAY SHERO. OK, deadline day. Wheel and deal and win Mario another Cup. Go.

Even though he is joking that is a pretty worrying summary of what that think of Ray Shero and that they/he secretly wishes to be him.

Rocco: If I am Shero, my first move is to try and get David Morehouse fired. Second, I remember that my best move last year was Jussi Jokinen, so I try a smaller move like that instead of trading away Simon Despres or Derrick Pouliot.

Someone who recognises an error that Shero made last year and that we should keep our young D at all costs unless it is for the benefit of the team overall to trade them.

Metzer: I’ll agree with that. I don’t want Ray to add just because he can or to make a big splash at the deadline just because he has the ability to outwit many of his peers around the league. Let’s not forget that one of his biggest acquisitions during the run to the 2009 Cup was a simple waiver claim that turned into Craig Adams.

A good waiver claim that was but I think it is fair to say that our recent waiver claims haven't been as successful but then I suppose with them being waiver players that is to be expected.

Rossi: Shero originally wanted a third-line winger to play with grit, preferably somebody with size. Then Dupuis was lost, and now he might look for a top-line fit with Crosby. If he can find the next James Neal or Chris Kunitz — a long-term fit — he’ll move a young defensemen to get it. But those deals always have other factors beyond just Shero targeting a guy. Dallas was broke and couldn’t keep Neal, so Shero pounced. Anaheim was in love with Whitney based off of his Game 5 performance in the 2008 Cup Final and had been chasing him for months. When they agreed to add Eric Tangradi — yes, Eric Tangradi — Shero made the deal.

That third line-winger was Dupuis. We're not going to find the next James Neal for Crosby. We'd should be looking for a player similar to Kunitz but more proficient at going to the net and faster.

Rossi: Shero doesn’t want a rental. For one, he’s told me several times that he thinks the price on rentals will be high this year. This is a hockey trade year.

As inaccurate as Rossi can be that is interesting to see and hopefully is something we'll see. We don't need a rental. We need a long term solution. I use the inaccuracy of Rob Rossi below but still makes for good reading if remotely true;

Rossi: They love Blake Wheeler, that’s for sure. They scouted him so much as part of the Team USA process that they already think of him as a Penguin. This is kind of Ray’s matra — guys being “Penguins layers.†There’s a certain type of guy.

 

[Valarukar]

I would trade literally any of our D-men in a hockey trade if I thought it made my team better now and moving forward.

 

[WVP]

That's...odd. And I have a hard time believing it. I don't think someone would have to overpay for Despres, but to suggest merely a decent hockey trade would send Despres packing seems a bit much to me.

I think there's obviously hyperbole there but probably some truth as well.

Sometimes GM's desperately want coaches to play a certain guy and will trade the player getting that ice time. Who knows in this case. It's impossible to know how Shero feels about Despres but the staff apparently does not care for him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If they love Blake Wheeler, then I hope they go for it. Be willing to pay the price to get him, if that's the guy you feel is the best fit.

As for Despres, pure speculation, but I wonder if he's let it be known he's disgruntled with how he's been used in Pittsburgh, and maybe the coaching staff have told Shero they simply don't think they can deal with him long-term.

Wheeler for Despres++. Make it work, Ray.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Bingo. The deadline is the most expensive time to fix a problem. He can't **** the organization by giving away 2 more #2 and #1 picks. Shero should have headed off this glaring issue off last summer. It's hard to image what he was thinking.

Bingo. This team has had some huge holes going into the season the past 2 years. Shero dicks around all year until the deadline.

The lack of quality forwards is really unacceptable. So many people justified using the #8 pick on Pouliot because he could replace Letang, not so much.

Shockingly, only drafting dmen and benching them in favor of Orpik and Engelland hasn't worked.

I just don't see how anyone can be satisfied with Shero anymore. Even the biggest kool aid drinkers have to see Shero isn't getting it done at this point.

 

[MrBurghundy]

If they love Blake Wheeler, then I hope they go for it. Be willing to pay the price to get him, if that's the guy you feel is the best fit.

As for Despres, pure speculation, but I wonder if he's let it be known he's disgruntled with how he's been used in Pittsburgh, and maybe the coaching staff have told Shero they simply don't think they can deal with him long-term.

Wheeler for Despres++. Make it work, Ray.

I completely wouldn't doubt that Despres is pretty pissed about how he's being used, who's been playing over him, and the huge inconsistencies with how he's evaluated game to game as opposed to other players on this team. I'd want out too.

The part that got me was this...

Rossi: They love Blake Wheeler, that’s for sure. They scouted him so much as part of the Team USA process that they already think of him as a Penguin. This is kind of Ray’s matra — guys being “Penguins players.†There’s a certain type of guy.

I hate Rossi so much, and I never believe anything he says, but I want that statement to be true so badly right now I'm willing to hope for the best.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Letang for Wheeler +

NHL player for NHL player, long term contracts, similar age. They're in this self inflicted situation where they've devalued Despres, or not increased his value, to the point that his best value is in keeping him even if Bylsma hates him.


Kane really is a Pen, they're worried about his hand getting infected if he rushes back. Raises questions about Letang's elbow, though.

 

[WVP]

Rossi: For Wheeler, you’re talking something like Derrick Pouliot, Beau Bennett and a first-round pick.

That makes me nauseous though...seriously.

I guess you can still go sign Kulemin in the summer for L2 LW but that's a lot of quality to give. Anything less doesn't make sense for Winnipeg but still....

 

[IcedCapp]

If they trade Despres for Gagner or any decent hockey trade, they should all be fired into the sun. ****ing morons.

 

[MrBurghundy]

That makes me nauseous though...seriously.

I guess you can still go sign Kulemin in the summer for L2 LW but that's a lot of quality to give. Anything less doesn't make sense for Winnipeg but still....

I'd do it. Trading for any long term winger is going to hurt a lot, but that kind of trade is not something this team can't take on. They have plenty of defensive prospects, and Bennett is just being replaced by what we all hope Bennett can become, oh and the guy is 6'5" (I don't care how much of that he uses). Like I said in another thread, rip the band-aid off and get it over with. We'll be better for it right now during Crosby's and Malkin's prime.