Pick or Playoffs?

[AvsFan29]

Generally, because I'm arguing against the logical conclusions that are to be drawn from your arguments?

...although in that case I was just being a smartass...

I'm saying "he should get a shot, there isn't anyone in the line up that will keep him out"

You're saying "why do you want to rush him? Sakic is just going to ruin him. The front office is useless" blah blah blah blah blah

If you want to argue so badly, find someone else's time to waste.

Thanks

 

[CharlesPuck]

Playoffs, every single time. I follow the Avs to watch them play, and playoff hockey is the best sporting event. I don't follow the Avs to watch them suck every year and get a POSSIBLE second line center in 5 years.

 

[cgf]

I'm saying "he should get a shot, there isn't anyone in the line up that will keep him out"

You're saying "why do you want to rush him? Sakic is just going to ruin him. The front office is useless" blah blah blah blah blah

If you want to argue so badly, find someone else's time to waste.

Thanks

The logical conclusion that's to be drawn from using the "he can't be worse, so why not give him a shot" argument instead of arguing that "he has a good chance of being ready to earn a 3rd line gig in camp because that's the point in his development arc that he'll have reached", is that he should get that job whether he's ready for it or not.

So I'm only arguing against the conclusions that your argument leads to...conclusions we've seen this organization make repeatedly, to all of our detriment...

If you're going to get upset any time anyone disagrees with the arguments you are making, then I can only recommend some liberal application of the ignore-feature

 

[AvsFan29]

You're coming to your own conclusions, and then arguing with me about them.

I'm not blocking you. You don't block people that you disagree with lol that's not how life works.

I like a lot of your opinions anyways.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and I actually agree that we shouldn't rush our prospects, unless they are clearly ready.

I just didn't agree with you putting words in my mouth.

 

[S E P H]

Timeline for certain players...

Player​	2019-2020 Season​	2020-2021 Season​
Jack Hughes or Kaapo Kakko​	NHL next year​	N/A​
Anybody else from 2019 Draft	At minimum of one year​	D's and G's will be longer
Nicolas Meloche​	AHL in top 2-3 role​	NHL in bottom 3 role​
Cale Makar​	NHL when season is done​	N/A​
Conor Timmins​	AHL in top 6 role​	AHL in top 4 role​
Martin Kaut​	AHL in top 6 role​	AHL/NHL split​
Shane Bowers​	AHL in top 9 role or JR in NCAA​	AHL with some NHL games​
Tyler Weiss​	Sophomore Season in NCAA​	Junior Season in NCAA​
Igor Shvyryov​	AHL top 9 role​	AHL top 6 role​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[AvsFan29]

Timeline for certain players...

Player​	2019-2020 Season​	2020-2021 Season​
Jack Hughes or Kaapo Kakko​	NHL next year​	N/A​
Anybody else from 2019 Draft	At minimum of one year​	D's and G's will be longer
Nicolas Meloche​	AHL in top 2-3 role​	NHL in bottom 3 role​
Cale Makar​	NHL when season is done​	N/A​
Conor Timmins​	AHL in top 6 role​	AHL in top 4 role​
Martin Kaut​	AHL in top 6 role​	AHL/NHL split​
Shane Bowers​	AHL in top 9 role or JR in NCAA​	AHL with some NHL games​
Tyler Weiss​	Sophomore Season in NCAA​	Junior Season in NCAA​
Igor Shvyryov​	AHL top 9 role​	AHL top 6 role​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Predicted*

 

[S E P H]

Predicted*

That's what you should do, or that's what I would do. Not this Kaut in NHL next season nonsense to see if he's ready.

 

[AvsFan29]

That's what you should do, or that's what I would do. Not this Kaut in NHL next season nonsense to see if he's ready.

You think Kaut getting a shot at the NHL next year is nonsense? What?

 

[McMetal]

Timeline for certain players...

Player​	2019-2020 Season​	2020-2021 Season​
Jack Hughes or Kaapo Kakko​	NHL next year​	N/A​
Anybody else from 2019 Draft	At minimum of one year​	D's and G's will be longer
Nicolas Meloche​	AHL in top 2-3 role​	NHL in bottom 3 role​
Cale Makar​	NHL when season is done​	N/A​
Conor Timmins​	AHL in top 6 role​	AHL in top 4 role​
Martin Kaut​	AHL in top 6 role​	AHL/NHL split​
Shane Bowers​	AHL in top 9 role or JR in NCAA​	AHL with some NHL games​
Tyler Weiss​	Sophomore Season in NCAA​	Junior Season in NCAA​
Igor Shvyryov​	AHL top 9 role​	AHL top 6 role​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

While I agree with most of those, I have to say it's not out of the question that Kaut forces his way into a callup next season, or maybe even Bowers, although I expect him to need the AHL seasoning. Those are some pretty conservative estimates on some of those players.

 

[AvsFan29]

While I agree with most of those, I have to say it's not out of the question that Kaut forces his way into a callup next season, or maybe even Bowers, although I expect him to need the AHL seasoning. Those are some pretty conservative estimates on some of those players.

Well he thinks Kaut playing at all is nonsense, so it's not exactly surprising.

 

[cgf]

You're coming to your own conclusions, and then arguing with me about them.

I'm not blocking you. You don't block people that you disagree with lol that's not how life works.

I like a lot of your opinions anyways.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and I actually agree that we shouldn't rush our prospects, unless they are clearly ready.

I just didn't agree with you putting words in my mouth.

Fair enough, I am arguing against the organization's interpretation of that argument rather than a conclusion that you've expressly stated, so I get where you're coming from in feeling like I'm putting words in your mouth...and I totally get how annoying that can be...but when an organization has repeatedly shown the conclusion that they reach when they use the "there's nobody better" logic, is to throw kids out there whether they are ready or not; I don't think there's much difference between arguing in favor of that logic (which you did) & arguing in favor of that conclusion (which you didn't).

 

[AvsFan29]

Fair enough, I am arguing against the organization's interpretation of that argument rather than a conclusion that you've expressly stated, so I get where you're coming from in feeling like I'm putting words in your mouth...and I totally get how annoying that can be...but when an organization has repeatedly shown the conclusion that they reach when they use the "there's nobody better" logic, is to throw kids out there whether they are ready or not; I don't think there's much difference between arguing in favor of that logic (which you did) & arguing in favor of that conclusion (which you didn't).

Except your saying he shouldn't get a spot on the team, which isn't what I said. I said he should get a shot, because there's no one in his way.

 

[cgf]

Except your saying he shouldn't get a spot on the team, which isn't what I said. I said he should get a shot, because there's no one in his way.

I'm only saying he shouldn't get a spot until he's ready. Once he's ready then by all means let him take the next step in his development...over-ripening can turn into stagnation without careful attention.

Whereas if they're just throwing him out there because there's no one in his way, then that doesn't account for whether he's ready or not, nor whether that's best for his development or not.

The answer to the "there's nobody better" argument is that Joe needs to get players who are better so that we can focus on development with our prospects, not relying on them to fix the senior team

 

[Murzu]

Kaut being legit mid six winger next fall should be a pleasant surprise, not an expectation.

If he truly makes it from the camp, great. We have more depth. But if he isn't truly ready, send him to AHL. It's better for his development and for the Avs in the long run.

 

[AvsFan29]

I'm only saying he shouldn't get a spot until he's ready. Once he's ready then by all means let him take the next step in his development...over-ripening can turn into stagnation without careful attention.

Whereas if they're just throwing him out there because there's no one in his way, then that doesn't account for whether he's ready or not, nor whether that's best for his development or not.

The answer to the "there's nobody better" argument is that Joe needs to get players who are better so that we can focus on development with our prospects, not relying on them to fix the senior team

I didn't say he should be thrown out there if he's ready or not. I said he will get a shot. We don't know how ready he is.

 

[cgf]

I didn't say he should be thrown out there if he's ready or not. I said he will get a shot. We don't know how ready he is.

What do you mean by "get a shot"?

 

[AvsFan29]

What do you mean by "get a shot"?

Get called up. Like every prospect has, ever. It's the only way to tell if he's ready or not.

 

[cgf]

Get called up. Like every prospect has, ever. It's the only way to tell if he's ready or not.

I'm still confused. So what is the difference between "getting a shot" and getting "thrown out there"?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Get called up. Like every prospect has, ever. It's the only way to tell if he's ready or not.

There’s no point this year though. He’s not ready yet especially not for a playoff race. Let him come to TC and see where he’s at then.

 

[Pokecheque]

Do what any sensible team does...give him a legit shot of making the team out of camp. But there should be at the very least, a Plan B. He should not be a de facto 2nd line winger going into next season. That was the problem with Sakic's 2018 offseason. It's okay if you wanted to see what you had in Jost, but to make exactly ZERO signings to shore up the center depth in case he didn't pan out was a mistake. At the very least a 3rd/4th line guy who could win them a goddamn faceoff now and again would've been ideal.

I think I've already posted this, but the Blackhawks did not wait for guys like Kane and Keith to reach their superstar potential--they went out and signed Campbell and Hossa. When it came time to move them, Campbell got moved and Hossa got a rash.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Do what any sensible team does...give him a legit shot of making the team out of camp. But there should be at the very least, a Plan B. He should not be a de facto 2nd line winger going into next season. That was the problem with Sakic's 2018 offseason. It's okay if you wanted to see what you had in Jost, but to make exactly ZERO signings to shore up the center depth in case he didn't pan out was a mistake. At the very least a 3rd/4th line guy who could win them a goddamn faceoff now and again would've been ideal.

I think I've already posted this, but the Blackhawks did not wait for guys like Kane and Keith to reach their superstar potential--they went out and signed Campbell and Hossa. When it came time to move them, Campbell got moved and Hossa got a rash.

Yup. Basically this. If he looks ready in TC, let him play a couple games on the 3rd/4th line and see where he’s at. If he looks good then keep him up. If it send him back down for awhile.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Do what any sensible team does...give him a legit shot of making the team out of camp. But there should be at the very least, a Plan B. He should not be a de facto 2nd line winger going into next season. That was the problem with Sakic's 2018 offseason. It's okay if you wanted to see what you had in Jost, but to make exactly ZERO signings to shore up the center depth in case he didn't pan out was a mistake. At the very least a 3rd/4th line guy who could win them a goddamn faceoff now and again would've been ideal.

I think I've already posted this, but the Blackhawks did not wait for guys like Kane and Keith to reach their superstar potential--they went out and signed Campbell and Hossa. When it came time to move them, Campbell got moved and Hossa got a rash.

Tallon was pretty aggressive in getting players to help a young toews and Kane and they were made better for it.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Tallon was pretty aggressive in getting players to help a young toews and Kane and they were made better for it.

Wait throwing to them to wolves wasn’t the right way to develop them?

 

[AvsFan29]

I'm still confused. So what is the difference between "getting a shot" and getting "thrown out there"?

How is this confusing?

 

[The Abusement Park]

How is this confusing?

Because they're same thing but you're saying they aren't.