Pick or Playoffs?

[AvsFan29]

Because they're same thing but you're saying they aren't.

Definitely aren't the same thing. Is English your first language? I'm not not trying to be a dick, I'm just wondering if you're European or something.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Definitely aren't the same thing. Is English your first language? I'm not not trying to be a dick, I'm just wondering if you're European or something.

Ok then what's the difference?

Did Jost get a shot or thrown in during the 16/17 season?

 

[AvsFan29]

Ok then what's the difference?

Well "being given a shot" is being given an opportunity to do something.

"Being thrown out there" implies that you're being tossed into a situation that you shouldn't be in.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Yep, exactly like them. Washington too. These teams didn't need a truckload of top picks to win the cup. They got their stars through the entry draft and built around them.

Do you know how many times Pittsburgh drafted in the top 10 after Crosby?

Hey guys, I’m an outsider who doesn’t have a strong horse in this race - I actually clicked on this thread by mistake - but I felt the need to respond to this.

Prior to Crosby, Pittsburgh had made 3 straight top-5 picks. Ryan Whitney (5OV), Marc-Andre Fleury (1OV), and Evgeni Malkin (2OV). The year after selecting Crosby, Pittsburgh selected Jordan Staal 2OV. That’s 5 straight top-5 picks and 4 straight top-2 picks.

Make no mistake - all 5 of these players were important to Pittsburgh’s success and Stanley Cup wins. Crosby and Malkin I don’t need to explain. Fleury I don’t need to explain for 2009 and 2017 but he also helped get them into the playoffs with a very strong regular season in 2006. Ryan Whitney was traded for Chris Kunitz who broke 11 points in all 3 of the Cup runs. Jordan Staal as an individual was important to the 2009 run and he was traded for Brian Dumolin who was their #2D in 2016 and #1D in 2017.

Washington as well drafted Ovechkin, Alzner, and Backstrom. Alzner was irrelevant but Ovechkin and Backstrom weren’t. Ovechkin was a 1st overall who they got as a reward for finishing dead last in 2003-2004 and in the next season where they actually played hockey (05-06), they finished 4th from last with 70 points and selected Nicklas Backstrom.

 

[AvsFan29]

Hey guys, I’m an outsider who doesn’t have a strong horse in this race - I actually clicked on this thread by mistake - but I felt the need to respond to this.

Prior to Crosby, Pittsburgh had made 3 straight top-5 picks. Ryan Whitney (5OV), Marc-Andre Fleury (1OV), and Evgeni Malkin (2OV). The year after selecting Crosby, Pittsburgh selected Jordan Staal 2OV. That’s 5 straight top-5 picks and 4 straight top-2 picks.

Make no mistake - all 5 of these players were important to Pittsburgh’s success and Stanley Cup wins. Crosby and Malkin I don’t need to explain. Fleury I don’t need to explain for 2009 and 2017 but he also helped get them into the playoffs with a very strong regular season in 2006. Ryan Whitney was traded for Chris Kunitz who broke 11 points in all 3 of the Cup runs. Jordan Staal as an individual was important to the 2009 run and he was traded for Brian Dumolin who was their #2D in 2016 and #1D in 2017.

Washington as well drafted Ovechkin, Alzner, and Backstrom. Alzner was irrelevant but Ovechkin and Backstrom weren’t. Ovechkin was a 1st overall who they got as a reward for finishing dead last in 2003-2004 and in the next season where they actually played hockey (05-06), they finished 4th from last with 70 points and selected Nicklas Backstrom.

Yep. Pitts was one of the first teams to kick off the draft-to-win strategy in the cap Era.

Drafting top players is essential, because they are rarely traded, and when they are, you end up overpaying.

 

[Parker27]

Draft to win is nothing new and is not just some cap-era full proof strategy. Especially it is nothing new to Pittsburg. How do you think super Mario got there to begin with.

Hell just look at how our 1996 cup team was constructed. Without spending the time to look it up Quebec drafted pretty good for us. Sakic, Sundin, Nolan, Foote, Lindros Yes the Lindros trade helped but still in the back of my mind I have always wondered what that team could of been with lindros instead of Foppa. It would of made the Detroit rivalry crazy.

 

[AvsFan29]

Draft to win is nothing new and is not just some cap-era full proof strategy. Especially it is nothing new to Pittsburg. How do you think super Mario got there to begin with.

Hell just look at how our 1996 cup team was constructed. Without spending the time to look it up Quebec drafted pretty good for us. Sakic, Sundin, Nolan, Foote, Lindros Yes the Lindros trade helped but still in the back of my mind I have always wondered what that team could of been with lindros instead of Foppa. It would of made the Detroit rivalry crazy.

Drafting became much more important when the cap was implemented.

Obviously before the cap, it was great to draft good players, but you could also just buy a team...and the Avs did that for years. I'm pretty sure one season, Nashville spent 25m on their roster, and Detroit was somewhere around 85-90.

Can't do that any more. Have to draft well.

 

[Parker27]

The Avalanche never bought a team. They were not throwing money at every ufa. Yes Sakic was making 10, Blake 9.5, Roy 9 but that was the economics of the time. If the rangers were going to pay Holik 9 a year you had to pay your own guys. The idea they bought any of their teams is pretty far fetched.

 

[cgf]

Well "being given a shot" is being given an opportunity to do something.

"Being thrown out there" implies that you're being tossed into a situation that you shouldn't be in.

So that I'm not putting words in your mouth, could you please elaborate on this.

...because it sounds like the only difference is whether the kid "being given his shot" fails & in hindsight turns out to have "been thrown out there", or not.

 

[AvsFan29]

So that I'm not putting words in your mouth, could you please elaborate on this.

...because it sounds like the only difference is whether the kid "being given his shot" fails & in hindsight turns out to have "been thrown out there", or not.

No

 

[AvsFan29]

Playoff chances up to 47.4%

If we win against the Jets, we will be up to around 54%.

If we lose against the Jets, we will be down to around 39%.

We're not done yet!

 

[billybobjoe2112]

Arizona wins today, so four teams are one pt out of the final wildcard spot. Three games and you could put yourself clearly in the playoffs, or down in eighth.

 

[AvsFan29]

Arizona wins today, so four teams are one pt out of the final wildcard spot. Three games and you could put yourself clearly in the playoffs, or down in eighth.

Perfect situation. We can take the spot and gain ground, and if we can't win enough games, we can fall pretty quickly.

 

[The Kingslayer]

The Avalanche never bought a team. They were not throwing money at every ufa. Yes Sakic was making 10, Blake 9.5, Roy 9 but that was the economics of the time. If the rangers were going to pay Holik 9 a year you had to pay your own guys. The idea they bought any of their teams is pretty far fetched.

Just another thing the Canadian media ran with in the late 90s early 2000's. It really only started when the Avs were getting the "star" of the trade deadline. Fleury, Bourque, Blake, Kasparaitis, Marchment etc. Nobody ever talked about the Wings buying cups though even though they were paying big bucks to free agents. Guys like Hull, Robitaille.

 

[MarkT]

Wow just read through the last few pages and there was a lot of speaking past (and for) people.

I have no idea why it's in this thread, but people are acting like Kaut/Bowers in the NHL is an either/or thing.

The issue with Jost is that he never earned his NHL spot. He got the spot because he has talent, character and was a high draft pick, but very clearly (both at the time and in hindsight) wasn't actually ready to produce offensively at the NHL level or play NHL level defense. it was absolutely a mistake to keep him with the NHL team once this became apparent, and I think he would have been sent down if we had less than atrocious forward depth.

So with Bowers/Kaut, I think the obvious strategy would be, if they look good in camp, give them their 9 games or so in the NHL and only leave them up if they have show consistently that they are good enough and don't have any glaring flaws in their game. Otherwise send them down for seasoning.

And the sad thing is, I suspect all the people arguing on the previous pages actually agrees with that.

 

[AvsFan29]

Wow just read through the last few pages and there was a lot of speaking past (and for) people.

I have no idea why it's in this thread, but people are acting like Kaut/Bowers in the NHL is an either/or thing.

The issue with Jost is that he never earned his NHL spot. He got the spot because he has talent, character and was a high draft pick, but very clearly (both at the time and in hindsight) wasn't actually ready to produce offensively at the NHL level or play NHL level defense. it was absolutely a mistake to keep him with the NHL team once this became apparent, and I think he would have been sent down if we had less than atrocious forward depth.

So with Bowers/Kaut, I think the obvious strategy would be, if they look good in camp, give them their 9 games or so in the NHL and only leave them up if they have show consistently that they are good enough and don't have any glaring flaws in their game. Otherwise send them down for seasoning.

And the sad thing is, I suspect all the people arguing on the previous pages actually agrees with that.

They were just arguing with me to bug the shit out of me. I said he should get a shot soon, and apparently that means I want Kaut to play regardless if he's ready, until he's ruined as a player lol couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm guessing the team was extraordinarily gun shy about bringing any more vets in after the vets they brought in as interim measures were major contributors to that 48-point season. Doesn't excuse it but it might explain where they're coming from.

One of these days I hope they find Joe Colborne (if he's even alive at this point) and get more details about what went down in that 2017 training camp. He showed up intent to redeem his disastrous season from last year, and was promptly sent packing a little over a month later. Then he played a handful of games in San Antonio and just...disappeared.

 

[AvsFan29]

Playoff chances up to 54% with two huge wins.

Lots of help from other teams aswell.

Jost might not be a wasted pick.

Let's do this!

 

[Foppberg]

I'm so disappointed in 34.7% of y'all.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'm so disappointed in 34.7% of y'all.

For real. Who doesn’t want playoff hockey?

 

[Avs]

For real. Who doesn’t want playoff hockey?

Some people just want a forever rebuild

 

[The Abusement Park]

Some people just want a forever rebuild

They should become architects then.

 

[AvsFan29]

Some people just want a forever rebuild

We're at a point in the rebuild that a second top pick would really help, but playoffs would be great. Keep in mind when I made the thread, we were collapsing lol

 

[The Abusement Park]

We're at a point in the rebuild that a second top pick would really help, but playoffs would be great. Keep in mind when I made the thread, we were collapsing lol

We already have a guaranteed top 4 pick basically. Not many teams get to make the playoffs and pick top ~5. Got to take advantage of that.

 

[AvsFan29]

We already have a guaranteed top 4 pick basically. Not many teams get to make the playoffs and pick top ~5. Got to take advantage of that.

When I made the poll, we were collapsing, and were a couple L away from having less than 20% to make the playoffs.

Somehow Minny and Dallas lost and we started winning lol trust me I'd rather be in the playoffs