Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence

[GordonGraham]

I guess a few hundred service jobs are worth a few hundred million.

I agree we are talking minimum wage jobs here ( selling beer, pop corn, hotdogs, parking attendants, store clerks, waiters, barman)

 

[Dado]

It doesn't seem like the NHL is in a position to dictate something like that.

I suspect this article is more about the NHL going into "a leak a day" mode as we've come into the final days of the coyote death rattle.

The first thing TNSE will do when the deal closes is start selling tickets and organizing wait lists...

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

They like to give responses like that. When asked about potential job loss from the arena and surrounding area businesses closing down if the Coyotes were to relocate they replied "Not our problem".

It's not. That kind of crap argument from Glendale is the same as a bank robber defending his sticking up the Savings in Loan by telling the cops he was going to donate all the stolen money to an orphanage.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Lawless is backtracking and saying IF Phoenix fails THEN True North will be asked for the ticket drive. Well if that IS the case what do they do with the Coyotes If Winnipeg doesn.t sell what is demannded. I think Lawless is CLUELESS.

They go to one of several other alternatives that they have no doubt looked at.

Like the sportsnet "source" said....they have looked at alternativeS...not 'an alternative'.

 

[goyotes]

It's not. That kind of crap argument from Glendale is the same as a bank robber defending his sticking up the Savings in Loan by telling the cops he was going to donate all the stolen money to an orphanage.

You assume the GWI's legal position is correct. I have yet to hear a judge agree with their challenge. Oh yeah... they have yet to bring their case to court.

 

[Jeffrey93]

How can that freep article be for real? They want to keep a team in Phoenix, Atlanta, Sunrise, with small season ticket bases and low ticket prices, yet make Winnipeg sell tickets without a team? That's seems a really strange position for the NHL to take. It doesn't seem like the NHL is in a position to dictate something like that.

They certainly wouldn't be in a position to dictate something like that....if you believe Winnipeg is their one and only option.

I don't assume it is...so I think they are most definitely in a position to dictate something like that.

 

[pucka lucka]

They certainly wouldn't be in a position to dictate something like that....if you believe Winnipeg is their one and only option.

I don't assume it is...so I think they are most definitely in a position to dictate something like that.

Your logic is flawed. If they were concerned enough with Winnipeg to sell pretend season tickets while they had all these alternatives, why bother? It's amazing how much effort people will go to contort things to fit their preferred reality.

 

[Whileee]

You assume the GWI's legal position is correct. I have yet to hear a judge agree with their challenge. Oh yeah... they have yet to bring their case to court.

Conversely, we have heard much about the correctness of the City of Glendale's legal position, and yet they have refrained from taking their case to court, even though they claim that the financial implications of failure to close the deal are in the $500 million range. I remain a bit puzzled as to why some continue to urge the GWI to take this to court, but don't seem to have any inclination to urge the City of Glendale to do the same.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Your logic is flawed. If they were concerned enough with Winnipeg to sell pretend season tickets while they had all these alternatives, why bother? It's amazing how much effort people will go to contort things to fit their preferred reality.

How is it flawed? I'm not saying they are concerned with anything....that doesn't mean they won't ask a market to show some proof.

And what effort? What on earth are you talking about? I'm saying they are in a position to dictate things...I supported why I believe that. Your turn.

 

[kdb209]

Not even close to being true. The better concerts go to US Airways arena downtown, or Cricket arena which is an outdoor arena used exclusively for concerts. There are several other venues for concerts as well in the 2,500 - 5,000 seat size. If the Coyotes leave, the Job may not litterally go "dark", but it will struggle to have an event one night a week.

Actually for the last several years (2007-09) the Job has actually been busier than the US Airways Center - based on the Pollstar numbers of tickets sold to non-sporting events. I haven't seen any Pollstar numbers for 2010.

 

[Whileee]

It sure looks like a rivet popped somewhere on the old Springbok Dado. This guy Lawless is obviously on message from TN. The NHL wouldnt be happy at all to see a repeat of the Hamilton Predators debacle so how this guy figures "by next week" absent a formal announcement from the NHL without their tacit complicity in this "leak" Im sure I just dont know.

Secondly, he closes the article with an "apparently were considered a failure within the BOG's" statement is both petty & trite. Chip on the shoulder much?. Numerous members of the BOG's would give their eye teeth to have a building and a team as successful as the MTS & the Moose. WTF does Winnipeg have to prove to Sunrise, Raleigh, Tampa, Anaheim, Toronto, LI or anywhere else for that matter?. This would be the first proven buyer of a franchise in a decade backed by an individual with more money than about 90% of the existing ownership groups. Springboks' are well built boats. Rivets dont pop, leaks dont happen without help. Maybe its a Starcraft?. Mirrocraft?. Habercraft?. Sure aint welded.

I'm with you, Killion. This strikes me as more likely to be a rather sharp business maneuver by TNSE to jump-start their operation, rather than an ultimatum from the NHL. But clearly a switch has been flipped, and it is now full-court press on Glendale and Hulsizer, with the ticket push in Winnipeg adding some flare and drama to the proceedings. It seems likely that some of the principals do not expect the Glendale sale to go through.

By the way, if Winnipeg is not able to sell out the building pronto, and continue to do so in the coming years, then I will be the first to say that this has all been much ado about nothing.

 

[cbcwpg]

I told people this until I was blue in the face. That is why he did it...the league rules require it.

Wrong....

Quote from Daly...

"There is nothing in the constitution on this," said NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly in an email to the Free Press on Thursday. "Certainly, one of the things the board has to have satisfied is that the market is capable of supporting an NHL team at NHL prices. But that can be done in a variety of ways, depending on the market. There is no one ‘cookie cutter’ approach here."

Basillie did it because he's a ______. The NHL did not ask him to do it.

 

[Ryan34222]

It's flawed because there is no point in talking to Winnipeg at all if better alternatives existed, because let's be frank, Winnipeg is itself a marginal market.

was there a hard deadline set for the Coyotes situation? it would be great timing for this to be printed to make sure both sides in Phoenix cross all their t's in time

 

[Killion]

You assume the GWI's legal position is correct. I have yet to hear a judge agree with their challenge. Oh yeah... they have yet to bring their case to court.

I dont goyotes. Id say their position, like Glendales, is arguable. Furthermore, it just beggars belief that the COG would deliberately build a Led Zepplin after months & months & months of consultation with Constitutional Lawyers and the like & craft something that wasnt winnable. Yet here we are. And its sad, pathetic & heartbreaking. As CasualFan said on an earlier thread, if the Moyes BK was the Apex of the last 2yrs, then just who exactly let it slide into the abyss if not the COG with their dithering, obfuscations, lack of focus & due dilly, inability to execute a clear strategy etc?. Everyones blaming GW?. What about the COG?. They couldve' wired this thing home mnths ago & left GW in the dust playing catchup in court, down the road, like maybe in 3yrs. Glendale Turtled. They broke the code. Lost the momentum. Went off the rails. Failure to Launch.

 

[Fugu]

I actually got a response to my question to the GWI about "what if your wrong." The response was, "we're not wrong." That is a level of arrogance you either love or hate.

This doesn't make sense. You have to be pretty sure about your position on the law to expend this much effort on a matter. We're not talking play court here.

If they were to consider your question and decide there was uncertainty, they'd have to admit they're not qualified to make the judgment, and thus incompetent. Arrogance is irrelevant, but imo, labeling it as such erodes at your ability to claim any kind of objectivity.

 

[Confucius]

"Sharp business practice"?. Id say so. And I wouldnt be in the least bit worried about Winnipeg in terms of playing to capacity. They've got things dialed in from what I've been able to determine with the concert/event side of the business, combined with other revenue streams in & around the area, a few yet to be unveiled, that wont price the NHL out of the reaches of the average fan. Its' too bad for Phoenix that guys like Chipman and the ownership group in San Jose' didnt have a hankering for Arizona. I still believe the market can support a franchise provided its got an ownership group willing & able to roll up their sleeves, get creative & diversify....... and yet Whileee.... is that a Bugle cry I hear coming from Reinsdorfs' Camelback Ranch?. Could it be the Cavalry is on the way?.

Yep but the tune is Taps

 

[Steve Passless*]

Its' too bad for Phoenix that guys like Chipman and the ownership group in San Jose' didnt have a hankering for Arizona. I still believe the market can support a franchise provided its got an ownership group willing & able to roll up their sleeves, get creative & diversify....... and yet Whileee.... is that a Bugle cry I hear coming from Reinsdorfs' Camelback Ranch?. Could it be the Cavalry is on the way?.

Except Reinsdorf is not a guy like Chipman or the San Jose owners; his game is to make taxpayers cover everything for him. The "public-private partnership" is the exact opposite of San Jose and Winnipeg's successful business model.

 

[Killion]

Yep but the tune is Taps

Played by the same guy upon conclusion of Charlie Sheens' Torpedo of Truth engagement at Massey Hall this evening.

 

[Killion]

Except Reinsdorf is not a guy like Chipman or the San Jose owners; his game is to make taxpayers cover everything for him. The "public-private partnership" is the exact opposite of San Jose and Winnipeg's successful business model.

No, of course he isnt. I was simply lamenting the fact that not even he of exorbitant tax payer subsidized appetites doesnt appear to be riding to the rescue with a last minute offer that might run down the middle & satisfy all those concerned. Ya, olde Jerry'd be pretty much a polar opposite to SJ/TN.

 

[billy blaze]

idea floated today by Bobcat on 590 today is that Bettman ( who McCown has no love for) is like Nero fiddling hile Rome burns. States that a SO franchise could garner 700 million breaking down to approximately 25 million per team, his argument was that while 11 teams are currently for sale or in financial peril an infusion of 25 million dollars could settle many issues and enhance sale proceedings for the teams that are on the block, so instead of just getting their money back by going to Winnipeg, they could make money by going to Southern Ontario.

Now with the arena question any prospective purchaser could clearly use Copps for a limited time, or even ACC should Leafs be compensated, anything would be possible- second team in Southern Ontario granting their tv rights to Leafs TV to enhance that brand would be acceptable to Leafs as the money is in the purchasers of Leafs TV at $3 per month- even in April to October

 

[Doug Smail]

This issue with Balsillie wasn't league permission....it was Nashville's logo being used and their name along with it. 'Hamilton Predators Hockey' with the logo being used. It was quickly changed to 'Hamilton Hockey' with no logo.
Had Balsillie not used the Predators name and logo there would not be an issue. He would simply be creating the proof he would need for his relocation application.

It wasn't that the NHL didn't give their permission....it was that Nashville didn't give it for use of their logo.

 

[billy blaze]

sale of season tickets pre re-location based on dispositions in Dewey Ranch court case may be required under previously unseen NHL By-Laws

http://communities.canada.com/edmon.../2010/12/06/how-to-move-an-nhl-franchise.aspx

1)New franchise requires ¾ majority vote from Board of Governors.

2)Sale of team requires ¾ vote

3)Relocation According to Section 35.3 of the League By-Laws: “Any proposed sale, assignment or transfer of a membership or of an ownership interest in a Member Club which would also involve the transfer of the Club or franchise to a different city or borough shall also be subject to the provisions of Section 4.2 of the Constitution [requiring ¾ vote from the Board of Governors] and to the provisions of By-Law Section 36.” To relocate a team, an owner must submit an application no later than January 1st of the year prior to the year in which the Club will start its first season, unless a majority of Board of Governors (BOGs) consent to a later date. Questions members (BOG) must consider when voting on approving a relocation (From section 36 on League By-Laws):

...

 

[pucka lucka]

sale of season tickets pre re-location based on dispositions in Dewey Ranch court case may be required under previously unseen NHL By-Laws

http://communities.canada.com/edmon.../2010/12/06/how-to-move-an-nhl-franchise.aspx

This isn't a typical relocation. The NHL owns the team. Read all those items with the NHL as the owner in Phoenix . Doesn't quite fit does it?

 

[RAgIn]

Campbell: Coyotes closing in on move to Winnipeg

Amid reports the deal to sell the Phoenix Coyotes to Chicago businessman Matthew Hulsizer is on life support, a source with knowledge of the situation told THN.com a deal is basically done to move the Coyotes to Winnipeg and will be announced sometime between the end of the Stanley Cup final and the June 24 draft.

Well, I guess it would make sense to "officially" announce it after the Cup Final. The Hockey News doesn't usually B.S. anything or anyone. Damning words for the Coyotes faithful.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/39788-Campbell-Coyotes-closing-in-on-move-to-Winnipeg.html

 

[davemac1313]

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/columnists/paul_friesen/2011/04/14/17998926.html