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Phoenix XLVIII: Of Mice and Lieberman

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barneyg

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Apr 22, 2007
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Mungman said:
Yah, or in this case just cross the imaginary line into the next municipality to spend their dough. Would be somewhat interesting to know the neighboring municipalities rates.
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http://phoenix.about.com/library/blsalestaxrates.htm

It says "last updated April 9 2012" so I'm assuming those rates are right.

Neighboring Glendale:
Phoenix: 2%
Peoria: 1.8%

Relatively close:
Avondale: 2.5%
Tolleson: 2.5%
El Mirage: 3%
Litchfield Park: 2.8%
Goodyear: 2.5%
Surprise: 2.2%

Not sure where the surrounding retail hubs are or what the proportion of sales made to non-Glendale residents currently is.
 
Cryogenic Man

Cryogenic Man

Registered User
Mar 6, 2012
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Grand Volcan said:
NHL will not fold the coyotes, that I'm 100% sure of.
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Interesting coming from Elliott Friedman:

" The Phoenix Coyotes will survive in Arizona if the "management
fee" to run the arena gets through Glendale City Council and The
Goldwater Institute. If not, there might be five guys who know what will happen: Gary Bettman, Bill Daly, John Collins and the NHL's top two financial guys, Craig Harnett and Joseph DeSousa.
Cassie Campbell-Pascall mentioned the word "fold" in her blog this week. Nothing would surprise me here."

Like I said, It's not just a comment thrown. There has to have been some talk about it within NHL circles.

But I'm with you. Highly unlikely they fold the franchise.
 
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tiredman

Registered User
Nov 10, 2003
5,049
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There are things I still don't understand.

Why would the NHL stay one more season in Glendale if they have to eat losses again this year ?

Wouldn't that be pretty risky to stay in Glendale one more year knowing the COG won't eat as much losses as the 2 previous years and that no buyer has been found in 3 years for this team ?

Is it because the Arizona market is so important for them If so, what are these reasons ?

Why wouldn't the NHL simply relocate the team ? They wouldn't have to eat losses again no?


thanks
 
Cryogenic Man

Cryogenic Man

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Mar 6, 2012
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Killion said:
... but of course, and under GB's astute leadership, why, league wide revenues have gone from $400M in 94 to $3Billion+. And you have the temerity to question the decisions made by the National Hockey Leagues BOG's & leadership?. Where have you been for the past 18yrs?. Asleep?. Projected revenues for next season forecast an increase of somewhere around 2.9%. More, much more when they force the players to retreat from 57-49% of their share or face expulsion, cards pulled, union busted. Yet here you are worried about a few million going to clubs in need? As the leagues own in-house Financial Analyst Chauncey Gardener once said, "As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well. In the Garden".
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:facepalm: Come on Killion, who's questioning Gary Bettman's Leadership? I'm talking about the BOG who are Gary Bettman's bosses.

Gary Bettman and his round table team have done a remarkable job with the league, attributable to a factor of reasons ticket price hikes etc.. anyways, yes a few million is worthy of being worried about. There are 29 other teams Killion. You think there are no worries?? Oh yeah, what's a few million amongst friends..I hope you're not rich mate, won't stay that way long! :laugh: ;)
I know I'm careful with my finances.

I was speaking solely based on the Phoenix Coyotes franchise and it's problems with it being a $$$ black hole.

They take care of problems one at a time. Now they are dealing with this one. Not just gary bettman, but all the Board of Governors. Soon, they will decide. That's if it hasn't already been done.
 
cbcwpg

cbcwpg

Registered User
May 18, 2010
20,271
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Cryogenic Man said:
Highly unlikely they fold the franchise.
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Well if Bettman does fold the Coyotes and there are only 29 teams next season, then you have to ask.... just how hard up are you to prove hockey will work in Glendale; that you would rather fold a team, put players out of work, and keep hoping for a miracle one day...instead of moving it to a city that would automatically become a money maker for your league and players (since they share in revenue).

Unless you fold it and immediately flip it to QC for even more money then you would get from relocation, I don't see it.
 
Jesus Christ Horburn

Jesus Christ Horburn

Registered User
Aug 22, 2008
13,942
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kdb209 said:
C&P from the 'Yotes board ownership thread:
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No way do I see this thing go on until June. The NHL will want to make a decision whether to stay or go well before then.

I think what we're seeing is the beginning of COG try to setup the NHL to take the fall when the team leaves. IMO, the first sign was Jamison coming out to publicly announce his interest in the team, only to state that he would need a few more months to find investors and complete the deal. Now COG is saying they will wait until June, when they previously voted in May the last two years.

When the NHL is forced to make a decision before then, if that decision is to allow the team to leave, COG will blame the NHL and say they could have completed a deal if they had more time.
 

Ciao

Registered User
Jul 15, 2010
10,004
5,813
Toronto
I don't see folding this franchise as an option. Technically it could be done, but I just can't picture the NHL doing that. Not now, after all they've been through keeping it on life support and all, and with other purchasers apparently avaiable in other markets. No dice. This is nothing but a red herring. If they can keep it Glendale they will, if they can't it will go elsewhere, but it will not fold.
 
llamapalooza

llamapalooza

Hockey State Expat
Aug 11, 2010
8,066
0
Montréal
Getting the union to sign the CBA is going to be hard...getting them to sign off on folding a team would be damn near impossible. (Not positive if they get a say in contraction matters but you better believe they won't be too helpful in other things if the league goes over their heads and cuts 23+ of their jobs.)

Not to mention the lost value and general stupidity of that as a business plan. If anything it could be posturing to drive up the price for Québecor. If there are no other markets they have to outbid, then maybe Bettman's going to make them "bid against" contraction.
 

Ciao

Registered User
Jul 15, 2010
10,004
5,813
Toronto
WJG said:
No way do I see this thing go on until June . . .
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. . . which year? If you mean June 2012, I could see it going on that long based on past performance.

What if the NHL has a very strong feeling that there will be another work stoppage next season? I have absolutely no knowledge of anything at all here, but let's say they have an offer from PKP that hasn't reached the "we can't refuse that" level; and at the same time they really do have bona fide interest from investors working the Jamison group that are getting close but aren't ready to go. In that case, might the NHL wait it out to see if the Jamison group comes together, or the PKP offer rises to the point they can't refuse it, knowing that if they do keep the franchise in Phoenix there will be a late start to the season or no season at all?

Ideally, in their world, maybe the desired outcome is that the Coyotes do win the Cup, some kind of deal comes together under Jamison, and combination of a championship team and a new CBA breathe life back into the franchise.

A long shot, I'll give you that, and I don't think any of this is likely to happen. Extremely remote at best.

On the other hand, I don't see signs of anything else happening any time soon.

If something is close to happening, I sure don't see it.
 

Mungman

It's you not me.
Mar 27, 2011
2,988
0
Outside the Asylum
barneyg said:
http://phoenix.about.com/library/blsalestaxrates.htm

It says "last updated April 9 2012" so I'm assuming those rates are right.

Neighboring Glendale:
Phoenix: 2%
Peoria: 1.8%

Relatively close:
Avondale: 2.5%
Tolleson: 2.5%
El Mirage: 3%
Litchfield Park: 2.8%
Goodyear: 2.5%
Surprise: 2.2%

Not sure where the surrounding retail hubs are or what the proportion of sales made to non-Glendale residents currently is.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that! It's not a huge difference, I guess it may only really make ANY difference in large items. In those cases it may drive some commerce to adjoining districts.
 
Killion

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,217
Cryogenic Man said:
Come on Killion, who's questioning Gary Bettman's Leadership?
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I am. Im questioning his leadership & the sanity of the inner circle of real power within the BOG's in Snider, Jacobs & AEG.... surely you didnt think my earlier post was even remotely serious? Quoting Peter Sellers as the utterly stunned Chauncey Gardner in Being There to make the point that these guys are completely out of touch with reality?. Tongue planted firmly in cheek. Dripping with sarcasm. These megalomaniacs are successful "despite" themselves, not because of anything theyve actually thought through & implemented properly. Like Pirates out on the high seas. Total opportunists. Dont kid yourself.
 

knorthern knight

Registered User
Mar 18, 2011
4,120
0
GTA
Cryogenic Man said:
"Cassie Campbell-Pascall mentioned the word "fold" in her blog this week. Nothing would surprise me here."

Like I said, It's not just a comment thrown. There has to have been some talk about it within NHL circles.

But I'm with you. Highly unlikely they fold the franchise.
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No bleeping way it folds. BOG can easily sell it for $203 million to PKP, and the other 29 owners are all $7 million dollars each richer. They are NOT going to walk away from that.

Folding+re-constituting in QC might be an attempt to weasel out of legal obligations, but I don't see any need for that.

And PKP would certainly prefer a "going-concern" of a team that has made the playoffs 3 years in a row, versus starting from scratch with an expansion team.
 

RAgIn

Registered User
Oct 21, 2010
900
0
Sudbury, Ont
From PBJ:

The Glendale City Council has been briefed privately this week on the Phoenix Coyotes sale, including further assurances that a group led by Greg Jamison has the money in place to buy the team and keep hockey in Arizona. That sets the stage for a possible Glendale council vote next week on an arena lease deal and payments to the Jamison group that could total $17 million next year.
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The NHL is expected to announce soon at least tentative sale terms with Jamison for the Coyotes.

That could set the stage for a quick Glendale vote on its part of the deal. The plan is for a Coyotes vote to be posted by the city on Friday for a Tuesday vote.
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Less than two weeks! Haha.

There is still plenty of skepticism in Canada that a Coyotes sale will get done and the team will stay in Phoenix. That skepticism could soon end or be confirmed.
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Good way to end the article. Positivity at it's best!

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...on-bid-to-buy-phoenix-coyotes-on.html?ana=twt
 

RAgIn

Registered User
Oct 21, 2010
900
0
Sudbury, Ont
More, from the Toronto Sun:

It will be interesting to see if the deal will pass muster with the Goldwater Institute, the watchdog group that challenges what it perceives to be corporate charity. Whatever Jamison gets from the city for running the rink will have to be market value or it could be interpreted as a handout.

If the Jamison deal doesn’t fly, there are rumours of second, deep-pocketed group that is interested in the Coyotes, but would want a considerably shorter lease.
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The last part is an interesting tidbit. First I hear of this! Ice Edge anyone!? :)

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/02/coyotes-deal-close-to-being-done
 
cbcwpg

cbcwpg

Registered User
May 18, 2010
20,271
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Nordskull

Nordskull

WAITING FOR NORDS
Sep 29, 2011
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Saguenay, Qc
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