Phoenix XLVIII: Of Mice and Lieberman

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kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
“I don't want the Coyotes sold, I want them to go bye-bye".
- Cactus Phil​



"The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley"
- Some Scottish Dude​



I'll be lazy with this weeks encore presentation ...

How we got here ...

Come and listen to a story about a man named Moyes
A poor franchise owner, could not afford his toys,
Then one day, while the League did not see
Down from the North came a guy named JB

Balsillie that is, Blackberries, Bankruptcy.


Well all you need to know is JB's a billionaire,
Rodier said "Let's move away from there"
Said "Canada is the place it ought to be"
So they loaded up the truck to move to Ontari-

0, that is. Poutine, Make it Seven.

...

Is it time to say good by to Moyes and all he wrought.
One last thread to share our final thoughts.
Or will we all be back again to this locality
To have a heapin helpin of thread one hundred and three.

Part CIII that is. Set a spell, Let the next shoe drop.

Y'all leave us alone now, y'hear?.



12-08-2008 Hockey in The Desert (Phoenix franchise and finance/business matters)
02-04-2009 Hockey in the Desert II (Phoenix Coyotes franchise and business matters)

05-05-2009 Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes
05-07-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part II
05-18-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part III
05-22-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part IV
06-03-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part V
06-09-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI
06-12-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge
06-16-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim
06-24-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part IX: 'Dorf on Hockey
07-25-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part X: The Truth? You Can't Handle The Truth!
08-03-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XI: A Fistful of Dollars?
08-07-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XII: For a Few Dollars More
08-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIII: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
08-21-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum
08-27-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU
09-02-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVI: Barbarian at the Gate
09-08-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVII: Wake Me Up When September Ends
09-10-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVIII: Is that a pale horse in the distance?
09-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy Part XIX: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Baum
09-21-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
09-28-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXI: 2009 -- A Sports Odyssey
10-26-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXII: Long and winding road

11-24-2009 Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)
03-14-2010 Part II. Potential owners of NHL's Phoenix Coyotes
03-26-2010 Part III. Prospective Owners - Phoenix Coyotes (UPD Lease vote 4/13; IEH signs MOU)
04-10-2010 Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU
05-02-2010 Part V Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy UPD Reinsdorf out? IEH back in? else Winnipeg?
05-11-2010 Part VI Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy
05-23-2010 Part VII Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy
06-07-2010 Part VIII: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankrtuptcy
06-22-2010 Part IX: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankruptcy UPD: Pres Moss fired 6/30 with IEH input
07-26-2010 Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis
08-27-2010 Part XI: Phoenix Coyotes -- Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected ...
09-16-2010 Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for
10-12-2010 Part XIII: Phoenix Coyotes - The Final Cut?
10-27-2010 Part XIV: Phoenix Coyotes - To Infinity And Beyond....
12-05-2010 Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore
12-14-2010 Part XVI: Phoenix -- Money for Nothing
12-20-2010 Part XVII: Phoenix -- Thread Title Available For Lease
01-09-2011 Part XVIII: Phoenix -- Imminence Front
01-24-2011 Phoenix XIXth: Nervous Breakdown
02-02-2011 Phoenix XX: Two weeks
02-11-2011 Phoenix XXI: When will then be now?
02-22-2011 Phoenix XXII: It's Now or Never
02-28-2011 Phoenix XXIII - Bond: The Phoenix Project
03-03-2011 Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?
03-07-2011 Phoenix XXV: Anyone in the theatre seen a pale horse?
03-08-2011 Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ
03-11-2011 Phoenix XXVII: Can we all get along?
03-16-2011 Phoenix XXVIII: Lawyers, Bonds and Money
03-20-2011 Phoenix XXIX: What's the next act? I'm tired of the dog & pony show
03-22-2011 Phoenix Part XXX Hulz, you gotta get a gimmick if you want to get ahead
03-27-2011 Phoenix Part XXXI: I feel I'm in a time loop
04-05-2011 Phoenix Part XXXII: Bridge over Troubled Goldwater
04-14-2011 Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence
04-20-2011 Phoenix XXXIV: Project Mayhem
04-25-2011 Phoenix XXXV: Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave...
05-03-2011 Phoenix XXXVI - There's got to be a morning after
05-10-2011 Phoenix XXXVII - The Heat is On

Followed by the Interregnum between Kings Phoenix the XXXVII-th and Phoenix the XXXVIII-th:

[PYTHON]
The most interesting thing about King Charles, the first
Is that he was 5 foot 6 inches tall at the start of his reign
But only 4 foot 8 inches tall at the end of it because of
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England Puritan
Born in 1599 and died in 1658 September
[/PYTHON]

06-09-2011 ESPN's Burnside: Hulsizer submitted new deal; COG city manager dragging it out
06-20-2011 Coyotes related: Westgate faces foreclosure
06-21-2011 Phoenix, worst case scenario

Finally, the realm was restored ...

06-27-2011 Phoenix XXXVIII: Hulsizer Pulls Bid For Coyotes
08-16-2011 Phoenix XXXIX: You Never Give Me Your Money
10-18-2011 Phoenix XL: Rich Man's World
12-07-2011 Phoenix XLI: Bongo Fury
01-06-2012 Phoenix XLII: The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything
02-02-2012 Phoenix XLIII: How to Bake Cupcakes in Less Than Two Weeks
02-28-2012 Phoenix XLIV: Ignorance & Apathy (or I Doan't know & I Doan't Care)
03-28-2012 Phoenix XLV: You can't YANDLE the truth!
04-11-2012 Phoenix XLVI: (Tre)living on a prayer
04-21-2012 Phoenix XLVII: More Threads than Superbowls
05-01-2012 Phoenix XLVIII: Of Mice and Lieberman

A couple if Phoenix uThreads have popped up in the wake of the "To close, or not to close" mega-thread discussion:

03-16-2012 COG to spend more on Coyotes than public safety?
03-22-2012 Dreger (3/22): NHL to investigate "plan b" for Phoenix
03-23-2012 Sunnicks strikes again "will they stay or will they go now?"
03-28-2012 G&M: Architects of Glendale pro sports disaster won't be around for fallout
03-30-2012 Shoalts: Ice Edge talking about bringing (minor) hockey to the Job should Yotes leave
04-04-2012 Shoalts: Glendale Mayor Scruggs wants city's $$ back
04-05-2012 Coyotes CEO 'confident' team is staying in Glendale
04-05-2012 Puck Daddy: Coyotes battline relocation worries with public optimism
04-06-2012 A strong PHX team in the playoffs may bring a new owner.
04-10-2012 Father of PHX AGM Brad Treliving involved in keeping Coyotes in Glendale?
04-10-2012 PKP offer for Coyotes may be 230 million (mod: to QC w/relo $$)
04-10-2012 Beasley: Coyotes deal within a month
04-11-2012 Glendale, NHL trying to close Phoenix Coyotes deal with Jamison group
04-11-2012 Bettman: no timeline on Phoenix situation (AP)
04-13-2012 Adding up the Numbers in the Phoenix Jamison Bid
04-16-2012 COG's Lieberman calls for demonstration against Coyote deal
04-17-2012 COG - budget payment to Jamison group not to exceed $20m?
04-17-2012 GWI ready to scrutinize new deal
04-18-2012 Coyotes sale soon, five things to watch
04-21-2012 Jamison looking for more investors on Coyotes bid, could be 1-2 months away from deal
04-21-2012 Greg Jamison finally goes public with potential purchase of the Coyotes
04-24-2012 Glendale Busts its Budget; Pledges More Money for Yotes
04-27-2012 Coyotes working to convert bandwagon fans to full time fans
04-28-2-12 4/28: Coyote sale deal getting closer
04-30-2012 Phoenix Coyotes sale finalized May 8th? Hulsizer back in?
05-03-2012 Phoenix CEO/Pres Nealy - something could happen next week
05-04-2012 Feschuk: Phoenix Coyotes doing just fine, thanks
05-04-2012 If the yotes make the finals
05-04-2012 Former Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes assails NHL over Coyotes’ operations
05-07-2012 NHL to announce tentative deal re: sale to Jamison
05-08-2012 Sportsnet: COG promising $306mm over next 21 years
05-08-2012 Wall Street Journal: 'Glendale's Public Hockey Project' = Loss

And, hey, why not, for completeness:

03-05-2010 NHL sues Jerry Moyes

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again


This is the way the threads ends
This is the way the threads ends
This is the way the threads ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
 
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Undertakerqc

Registered User
Dec 24, 2011
3,282
0
We are in May now, which usually has been relocation month. Is the end near for the Coyotes.. or is this the month they are saved. This saga will end this month...cant wait to see the result.
 

TBanff

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
110
110
I really think this is going to one of the last threads. I'd say there is about a 95% chance Jamison closes the deal officially in the next 3 weeks. Plus the Coyotes will likely make it to the conference finals.

All in all it will amount to the best year in Coyotes history. That's how I see it going down at least.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
Balsillie that is, Blackberries, Bankruptcy.

...good job kdb, The Ballad of Jed Clampett (Moyes's nickname amongst some members of the BOG's) by none other than
Lester Flatt & Earl Scruggs.

...and no, its not "The End"
 

mikelvl

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
5,899
2,063
Newton, MA
I really think this is going to one of the last threads. I'd say there is about a 95% chance Jamison closes the deal officially in the next 3 weeks. Plus the Coyotes will likely make it to the conference finals.

All in all it will amount to the best year in Coyotes history. That's how I see it going down at least.

Only a rookie would call this one of the last threads:laugh::laugh:
 

Stanley Cup

Bettman's ice bucket
Jul 15, 2010
3,817
871
Québec
I really think this is going to one of the last threads. I'd say there is about a 95% chance Jamison closes the deal officially in the next 3 weeks. Plus the Coyotes will likely make it to the conference finals.

All in all it will amount to the best year in Coyotes history. That's how I see it going down at least.

There's no end to this story
 

TBanff

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
110
110
This is like the boy who cried wolf. There's been so many false, "this deal is 2 weeks away" that nobody will believe that it can end. And I won't fault anyone for thinking that giving the history. But just like the story, one of the these days you're going to see Jamison on a podium in Glendale as the new owner and people are going to struggle to believe it's really come to a close.

And realistically there will probably be a thread or 2 of reactions to the sale closing. But really do believe that this is not going to last much longer. Time, will tell though who is right.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I don't know many people from the US who drove to Quebec City just last fall just to watch the Habs pre-season game. So I'd like to see QC with a team as much as many in here, I just don't think it's going to happen with the Yotes.
 

Gotaf7

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
2,595
2,549
This is like the boy who cried wolf. There's been so many false, "this deal is 2 weeks away" that nobody will believe that it can end. And I won't fault anyone for thinking that giving the history. But just like the story, one of the these days you're going to see Jamison on a podium in Glendale as the new owner and people are going to struggle to believe it's really come to a close.

And realistically there will probably be a thread or 2 of reactions to the sale closing. But really do believe that this is not going to last much longer. Time, will tell though who is right.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I don't know many people from the US who drove to Quebec City just last fall just to watch the Habs pre-season game. So I'd like to see QC with a team as much as many in here, I just don't think it's going to happen with the Yotes.

And in 5 years when he has lost over 100 million we will meet back here and start all over again! My opinion is that the BOG is going to put this saga to bed.
 

Undertakerqc

Registered User
Dec 24, 2011
3,282
0
This is like the boy who cried wolf. There's been so many false, "this deal is 2 weeks away" that nobody will believe that it can end. And I won't fault anyone for thinking that giving the history. But just like the story, one of the these days you're going to see Jamison on a podium in Glendale as the new owner and people are going to struggle to believe it's really come to a close.

And realistically there will probably be a thread or 2 of reactions to the sale closing. But really do believe that this is not going to last much longer. Time, will tell though who is right.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I don't know many people from the US who drove to Quebec City just last fall just to watch the Habs pre-season game. So I'd like to see QC with a team as much as many in here, I just don't think it's going to happen with the Yotes.

We shall see... after 3 year will a owner with actual cash show up? We will know soon enought :nod:
 

viper0220

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
8,473
3,436
Quick question, Would they announce the sale of the team to someone is looking to relocate the team during the Stanley cup finals?
 

blues10

Registered User
Dec 10, 2010
7,221
3,120
Canada
Not a chance my friend, I put the over under at fifteen more threads.

I'll take the over for $50

NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said a potential deal with former Sharks chief Greg Jamison has yet to go to the league’s Board of Governors, which would need to approve the sale.

Jamison is still working on his bid, Daly said on Tuesday. “We do continue to work with him though and hope that he will have a deal in the near future.â€

Though the speculation about a potential move lingers, Daly said the league continues to “work exclusively on a Glendale solution†– and with no deadlines.

He would not discuss potential backup plans should a deal with Jamison crumble.

“We are not prepared to talk about what alternatives may exist or may be considered if and when we get to the point of having to explore them,†Daly said.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/westsideinsider/161150
 

sawchuk1971

Registered User
Jun 16, 2011
1,489
498
Quick question, Would they announce the sale of the team to someone is looking to relocate the team during the Stanley cup finals?
in 1995, there were relocation rumors that the devils were on their way to nashville.....during the stanley cup finals...
 

Jesus Christ Horburn

Registered User
Aug 22, 2008
13,942
1
Relocation or not, PKP is likely in New York right now finalizing the details of a sale just in case it happens.

Last year the COG vote happened in the first week of May, and Chipman later admitted that he and his lawyers had been in NYC for a week prior working with the NHL on the deal.
 

Cryogenic Man

Registered User
Mar 6, 2012
445
0
I wrote this just recently in another BOH thread. The reason i'm also bringing it up here is because I am really trying to understand. According to numbers given through the years and compiled up in that other thread. The Cog owes $262 million on their arena. Going by those numbers this is what I wrote and am asking.

So judging by these numbers, $262 million, and adding about $305 million on a 20 year AMF, we get $567 million.

That's just the money that the City of Glendale will be paying on Arena related expenses, $567 Million.

They expect to receive $23 Million a year on the tax increase (that includes Westgate receipts), so based on a 20 year intake, that's $460 Million.

They say the Coyotes on average will bring in $6.5 Million per year. On a 20 year projection that's another $130 Million. Which brings us to a $590 million intake within the same time frame.

By those numbers it seems they are up by $23 Million.

Now I know inflation comes in during those years and the CoG also owes on a bunch of other stuff. Which I'm not considering at the moment.
Bear with me here, I'm not trying to do their budget, I'm just trying to understand the Hockey related costs.

According to team costs, the cost of running an operational NHL hockey team apparently is about $90 to $95 Million a year. Depending on salary caps etc... that number may fluctuate higher since that's been the trend. So, for the sakes of argument,let's just take $90 million as the number and put it on 20 years.

That's $1.8 Billion in the same time span to run the hockey team in Glendale. $1.8 Billion.

Now I know, the NHL revenue sharing program helps them and all. I know how much the BOG really loves helping teams in difficulty out. Not.

So, someone please help me understand where I'm going wrong here. I don't see any profit anywhere. I see massive loss. No TV contract, No sponsorships in view. How can someone, anyone, buy this team?

Again, help me out guys, what am I missing?



So, If anyone could help enlighten it would be great.
 
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Luigi Habs

Captain Saku
Jul 30, 2005
17,466
3,802
Montreal
The potential deal with Jamison is BS. The guy doesn't have enough money, the coyotes would still be floating around the cap floor for years to come and the franchise will continue losing money and in 3 years we'll be again in the same situation. Do people a favor and Move the team already to Quebec.
 

viper0220

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
8,473
3,436
I wrote this just recently in another BOH thread. The reason i'm also bringing it up here is because I am really trying to understand. According to numbers given through the years and compiled up in that other thread. The Cog owes $262 million on their arena. Going by those numbers this is what I wrote and am asking.

So judging by these onumbers, $262 million, and adding about $305 million on a 20 year AMF, we get $567 million.

That's just the money that the City of Glendale will be paying on Arena related expenses, $567 Million.

They expect to receive $23 Million a year on the tax increase (that includes Westgate receipts), so based on a 20 year intake, that's $460 Million.

They say the Coyotes on average will bring in $6.5 Million per year. On a 20 year projection that's $130 Million. Which brings us to a $590 million intake within the same time frame.

By those numbers it seems they are up by $23 Million.

Now I know inflation comes in during those years and the CoG also owes on a bunch of other stuff. Which I'm not considering at the moment.
Bear with me here, I'm not trying to do their budget, I'm just trying to understand the Hockey related costs.

According to team costs, the cost of running an operational NHL hockey team apparently is about $90 to $95 Million a year. Depending on salary caps etc... that number may fluctuate higher since that's been the trend. So, for the sakes of argument,let's just take $90 million as the number and put it on 20 years.

That's $1.8 Billion in the same time span to run the hockey team in Glendale. $1.8 Billion.

Now I know, the NHL revenue sharing program helps them and all. I know how much the BOG really loves helping teams in difficulty out.

So, someone please help me understand where I'm going wrong here. I don't see any profit anywhere. I see massive loss. No TV contract, No sponsorships in view. How can someone, anyone, buy this team?

Again, help me out guys, what am I missing?



So, If anyone could help enlighten it would be great.



There is no profit, in Jamison's case it's the blind leading the blinds. Those investors that jamison has are millionaires, I wonder how these people become millionaires? It is just shocking.
 

AllByDesign

Who's this ABD guy??
Mar 17, 2010
2,317
0
Location, Location!
Sorry Cryogenic man... I just don't have the time nor enough detail to roll out a forecast for you. What I can tell you is that it has to be viewed within the realm of "Flipping" a house.
 

Cryogenic Man

Registered User
Mar 6, 2012
445
0
Sorry Cryogenic man... I just don't have the time nor enough detail to roll out a forecast for you. What I can tell you is that it has to be viewed within the realm of "Flipping" a house.

If you mean literally, yeah I get it, it should be the other way around, it's messed up. Otherwise, I don't understand what you mean by that.
 
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