Phoenix XLIX; Smoke & Mirrors

[TheLegend]

So if the CoG was going to approve the $25M for both years no matter what ( and of note... most people in Winnipeg also knew the CoG was going to pay. Really what choice did they have ) what was thier reasoning in waiting to the last minutes before the deadline to tell the NHL they were going to pay? Did the CoG honestly think the NHL was going to say " don't worry about it, we have it covered " at the last minute?

They were told on both instances a deal was very close to being done and might not even need to put up the money at all. So why not wait until you absolutely have to put it into a budget if there's a chance it won't be needed?

 

[Cryogenic Man]

They were told on both instances a deal was very close to being done and might not even need to put up the money at all. So why not wait until you absolutely have to put it into a budget if there's a chance it won't be needed?

Couldn't it have something to do with the Goldwater institute why they wait till the last second? therefore not giving them time to review and attempt to stop it?

Not sure about that though.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Couldn't it have something to do with the Goldwater institute why they wait till the last second? therefore not giving them time to review and attempt to stop it?

Not sure about that though.

It mostly had something to do with the city being really, really gullible

 

[htpwn]

The Boston Pizza dude tweeted just a couple of hours ago that the team had been sold.

He did, but he could just be basing that off of the press conference last week.

Other than the connection with his son, we don't know how involved Treliving is with the NHL, if at all.

McCown might as just well said Ice Edge was buying a soccer team for $1 billion.

You mean they didn't?

But seriously, McCown can be very hit and miss. He certainly has hosted enough NHL personnel on his show in the past that one would assume he has sources. His co-hosts (Brunt, Shannon) also have some contacts. For those reasons, I suspect this report does have an element of truth to it. Maybe, in typical McCown fashion, he simply exaggerated Treliving's role.

Overall, I don't know what to make of it, to be honest.

 

[halligan10]

Hi RT,

Bettman wants Jamieson to succeed but he needs a back up plan.
JT is part of the Coyote family and says he "thinks" he can make it work but he wants an Out Clause if he can't.

Jamieson's motivation - He is given the right of first refusal on the Coyotes.

Gary Bettman's motivation - He CYA's himself. As Gene Hackman said in the movie Heist, "I wouldn't tie up my shoes without a back-up plan".
I love David Mamet's writing.

Jim Treliving's motivation - He buys the team for $170M by default, can't make it work, loses $120M / 4 years and then relocates to Toronto, the value of the teams jumps to $500M and he makes off like a bandit.

I think it is logical but I may be missing something.

I dont believe they can get 500m in 4 years...the NHL would sell it now for 400m to an owner in Toronto for Markham...why would they let someone else make all that profit?

 

[Coramoor]

you know the 4 year out thing confuses me, another team in toronto is still an insanely tough sell(for MLSE), and quite frankly markham is a stupid place to put a team, it's out of the way and no where near as good a place as waterloo or hamilton.

Also if there is going to be a 4 year out, just sell the team to PKP, and then he can move into the new Arena the year of, or the year after it's finished and boom were done, i fail to see why any of this other stuff came up

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Assuming there is some truth to today's report, the list of Plans and Back Up Plans for the NHL in Phoenix are (IMO):

Plan A) Greg Jamieson - 20 year lease. No out clause.
Plan B) Ice Edge or another poorly financed group willing to keep the team in AZ.
Plan C) Jim Treliving - Out clause after 4 years. No restriction on relocation. No guarentee that is passes the BoG.
Plan D) Relocate to QC for 2012-2013.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I dont believe they can get 500m in 4 years...the NHL would sell it now for 400m to an owner in Toronto for Markham...why would they let someone else make all that profit?

It does not have to be $500M. It could be $400M. The point is, it would be a huge windfall for JT.

I also think the deal would be based on the assumption that Treliving would do everything in his power (and in his wallet) to make it work in Phoenix. This Plan may just be between GB and JT. No guarantees it would fly with the BoG. I think GB is looking for options.

 

[RAgIn]

The agenda is out.

Unless im blind, there will be no council vote on the Coyotes this coming Tuesday May 22. But the COG is giving the Cardinals a temporary parking lot though - with the hope of avoiding a potential lawsuit.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agendasandminutes/

EDIT: Im assuming they will vote (Prelim Budget) on a $ 17 Mil AMF.

 

[RAgIn]

From the COG Workshop meeting from last Tuesday, May 15, 2012.

Around the 17:00 mark, Scruggs grills city staff on why citizens cannot view the expenditures of the COG escrow money to the NHL online (the COG created a new program where citizens can view all City expenditures online).

http://glendale-az.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=523

 

[sipowicz]

That cant be true! Can it?

I mean... if that's true I'm pretty sure there'll soon be a whole lot of angry mobs ready to burn down all Boston Pizza restorants in the Québec City area.

And that's another reason to hope the governement defunds the bloody CBC. I pay taxes to the Federal Government for them to pay a guy that takes away our future team. And the same government refuses to help build our new Colisée!

They may make a separatist out of me yet!

I'd like to see a team in Quebec City but this sense of entitlement that the ROC (rest of Canada) should help fund your new rink is BS. The arena in Winnipeg was privately built with next to nothing from the feds.!

 

[Cryogenic Man]

I'd like to see a team in Quebec City but this sense of entitlement that the ROC (rest of Canada) should help fund your new rink is BS. The arena in Winnipeg was privately built with next to nothing from the feds.!

There is no help from the Feds, just provincial.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'd like to see a team in Quebec City but this sense of entitlement that the ROC (rest of Canada) should help fund your new rink is BS. The arena in Winnipeg was privately built with next to nothing from the feds.!

Funny. Because Manitoba is also a have not province, the second largest right after QC. By "ROC" I hope you mean Alberta, Ontario and BC because that's who (until recently in the case of Ontario) was source of money for this country.



But the reailty is Ottawa is not paying for anything.

 

[halligan10]

I'd like to see a team in Quebec City but this sense of entitlement that the ROC (rest of Canada) should help fund your new rink is BS. The arena in Winnipeg was privately built with next to nothing from the feds.!

Feds is not paying a dime on that building and that make sense to me. Plus lets not make this wonderful story an occasion for political arguments. This is a love story that will end soon with a lot of crying Go Nords!!

 

[Free Edler]

Assuming there is some truth to today's report, the list of Plans and Back Up Plans for the NHL in Phoenix are (IMO):

Plan A) Greg Jamieson - 20 year lease. No out clause.
Plan B) Ice Edge or another poorly financed group willing to keep the team in AZ.
Plan C) Jim Treliving - Out clause after 4 years. No restriction on relocation. No guarentee that is passes the BoG.
Plan D) Relocate to QC for 2012-2013.

Jamieson would have to be certifiably insane to sign a 20-year lease with no out clause. That said, 'plan D' is the least likely to happen, IMO. We haven't seen the final act here, not by a long shot.

 

[Fourier]

Could this whole process get any more loopy???

Oh wait, what am I saying!!!

 

[Material Defender]

How can McCown can be a more reliable source, now, saying Treliving bought the Coyotes than saying a move to Quebec City is a done deal? Come on!

 

[JMT21]

When dealing with operating costs... someone mentioned the cost to operate MSG is 5M.

anyone have a source?

 

[Puckschmuck*]

Funny. Because Manitoba is also a have not province, the second largest right after QC. By "ROC" I hope you mean Alberta, Ontario and BC because that's who (until recently in the case of Ontario) was source of money for this country.

That's right, because Ontario is now also a have-not province as well.

 

[Melrose Munch]

That's right, because Ontario is now also a have-not province as well.

Yes, Captain Obvious, I clearly made that assertion

 

[aj8000]

Jamieson would have to be certifiably insane to sign a 20-year lease with no out clause. That said, 'plan D' is the least likely to happen, IMO. We haven't seen the final act here, not by a long shot.

Actually, plan D is the plan that will happen, plan B will never happen, plan C does not exist, and plan A is going to fall apart.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

That's right, because Ontario is now also a have-not province as well.

The "have" provinces for 2012-13 are:

B.C.
Alberta
Saskatchewan
Newfoundland and Labrador

http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/eqp-eng.asp

 

[Killion]

Other than the connection with his son, we don't know how involved Treliving is with the NHL, if at all.... But seriously, McCown can be very hit and miss. He certainly has hosted enough NHL personnel on his show in the past that one would assume he has sources. His co-hosts (Brunt, Shannon) also have some contacts. For those reasons, I suspect this report does have an element of truth to it. Maybe, in typical McCown fashion, he simply exaggerated Treliving's role.

Quite likely. Jim's son Brad as you know was a former minor leaguer (defenceman) playing 4-5 seasons in the IHL, AHL & ECHL back in the early 90's. Post hockey, with seed money from his Dad he formed the WPHL which ran for a few years & then merged with the CHL (which has a team in Prescott Valley), where he served as that leagues President before joining the Phoenix Coyotes as VP of Hockey Operations & Asst GM to Maloney (and GM of the San Antonio Rampage).

It would be perfectly natural for Jim Treliving to take a good look at the Coyotes in light of Brads involvement with the franchise and the families history with hockey, arena management & concessions operations, expansion pursuant to their Boston Pizza empire etc. That being said, with so obvious an inside track, its plausible that Jim Trelivings been biding his time waiting for the smoke to clear over the dead bodies before making a final last ditch take it or leave it offer to the NHL & Glendale, pretty much they way the guy operates. He made a point of tweeting that "No, havent bought the Coyotes" etc minutes after MCown's show aired. Definitely IMO a case of where theres smoke....

one of the circling "Mystery Buyers" who although seemingly rejected by Glendale thus far, may yet wind up as last man standing, the city & leagues last resort/hope. Id further suggest that 4yrs is enough time to determine whether or not a resurrection is in the offing', so if thats the only real obstacle, possibly combined with a Treliving demand for a $15M+++ AMF, league reticence in Capping a Consent Form and or dictating the terms of potential relocation sites or sale for, then both the city & the NHL are being obstinate, unreasonable. These are details that can be worked out reasonably, though it is also probable that Treliving is in fact playing serious hardball in looking for a 2000% + profit on the investment.

It does not have to be $500M. It could be $400M. The point is, it would be a huge windfall for JT.

...and one the league wouldnt entertain for 5 seconds Kevy. Why would or should they let someone waltz in & buy a distressed asset even at a premium, permitting a carte-blanche relo or sale for relo to a primo market like Markham or Hamilton & lose a $500M payday through Expansion Fee's & Indemnifications, allowing yet another Canadian Cowboy to run roughshod over the leagues right of determination?. Your suggesting they kiss off a half a billion dollars, potentially a lot more if they smarten up & sell Expansion Franchises to both of those markets simultaneously. Im sure a guy like Treliving absolutely salivates over such a concept, however, he's not dealing with some Yokel home-based wannabe entrepreneur on Lions Den with a patent for the Manserre. The NHL isnt exactly populated with Rubes'. Why would they go for that?.

 

[halligan10]

Hey sunnucks reported again on thurday that a big step forward was going to happen later that day or friday...how stupid is he? How many time the nhl or someone told him something that is not happening... I may call him and tell him that Badaboum was in phoenix last night warming up for the game in quebec...i wonder if he would report it lol

 

[htpwn]

That's right, because Ontario is now also a have-not province as well.

Relevant, how?