Phoenix XLIX; Smoke & Mirrors

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Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
...yepp, unhuh, thats right, just went ahead
and did it , thank Stix&Stones for the title... :D

Mod note; plz fix Phoenix in the title. No can do...
 
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SharksFan1978

Registered User
Mar 29, 2012
235
3
...yepp, unhuh, thats right, just went ahead
and did it , thank Stix&Stones for the title... :D

Mod note; plz fix Phoenix in the title. No can do...

Plus the roman numerals should be changed to XLIX.

That being said, I am wondering if this latest title will prove to be correct or if this is finally going to get done in the desert.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
The Thread goes ever on and on (and on and on) (reprise) ...

This week's shamelessly lazy repeat encore episode lovingly selected from our archives (volumes XV & XXXIV) with a new Coda:

The Thread goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Thread has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with weary feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.

...

The Thread goes ever on and on
Out from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Thread has gone,
Let others follow it who can!
Let them a journey new begin,
But I at last with weary feet
Will turn towards the lighted inn,
My evening-rest and sleep to meet.

Twenty Two threads for the Bankruptcy under the sky,
Thirty Four for new Owners in their halls of stone,
Thirty Two micro threads doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,
In the Board of Business where the Shadows lie,
One thread to rule them all, one thread to find them,
One thread to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Board of Business where the Shadows lie.


12-08-2008 Hockey in The Desert (Phoenix franchise and finance/business matters)
02-04-2009 Hockey in the Desert II (Phoenix Coyotes franchise and business matters)

05-05-2009 Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes
05-07-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part II
05-18-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part III
05-22-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part IV
06-03-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part V
06-09-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI
06-12-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge
06-16-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim
06-24-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part IX: 'Dorf on Hockey
07-25-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part X: The Truth? You Can't Handle The Truth!
08-03-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XI: A Fistful of Dollars?
08-07-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XII: For a Few Dollars More
08-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIII: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
08-21-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum
08-27-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU
09-02-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVI: Barbarian at the Gate
09-08-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVII: Wake Me Up When September Ends
09-10-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVIII: Is that a pale horse in the distance?
09-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy Part XIX: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Baum
09-21-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
09-28-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXI: 2009 -- A Sports Odyssey
10-26-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXII: Long and winding road

11-24-2009 Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)
03-14-2010 Part II. Potential owners of NHL's Phoenix Coyotes
03-26-2010 Part III. Prospective Owners - Phoenix Coyotes (UPD Lease vote 4/13; IEH signs MOU)
04-10-2010 Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU
05-02-2010 Part V Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy UPD Reinsdorf out? IEH back in? else Winnipeg?
05-11-2010 Part VI Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy
05-23-2010 Part VII Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy
06-07-2010 Part VIII: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankrtuptcy
06-22-2010 Part IX: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankruptcy UPD: Pres Moss fired 6/30 with IEH input
07-26-2010 Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis
08-27-2010 Part XI: Phoenix Coyotes -- Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected ...
09-16-2010 Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for
10-12-2010 Part XIII: Phoenix Coyotes - The Final Cut?
10-27-2010 Part XIV: Phoenix Coyotes - To Infinity And Beyond....
12-05-2010 Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore
12-14-2010 Part XVI: Phoenix -- Money for Nothing
12-20-2010 Part XVII: Phoenix -- Thread Title Available For Lease
01-09-2011 Part XVIII: Phoenix -- Imminence Front
01-24-2011 Phoenix XIXth: Nervous Breakdown
02-02-2011 Phoenix XX: Two weeks
02-11-2011 Phoenix XXI: When will then be now?
02-22-2011 Phoenix XXII: It's Now or Never
02-28-2011 Phoenix XXIII - Bond: The Phoenix Project
03-03-2011 Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?
03-07-2011 Phoenix XXV: Anyone in the theatre seen a pale horse?
03-08-2011 Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ
03-11-2011 Phoenix XXVII: Can we all get along?
03-16-2011 Phoenix XXVIII: Lawyers, Bonds and Money
03-20-2011 Phoenix XXIX: What's the next act? I'm tired of the dog & pony show
03-22-2011 Phoenix Part XXX Hulz, you gotta get a gimmick if you want to get ahead
03-27-2011 Phoenix Part XXXI: I feel I'm in a time loop
04-05-2011 Phoenix Part XXXII: Bridge over Troubled Goldwater
04-14-2011 Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence
04-20-2011 Phoenix XXXIV: Project Mayhem
04-25-2011 Phoenix XXXV: Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave...
05-03-2011 Phoenix XXXVI - There's got to be a morning after
05-10-2011 Phoenix XXXVII - The Heat is On

Followed by the Interregnum between Kings Phoenix the XXXVII-th and Phoenix the XXXVIII-th:

[PYTHON]
The most interesting thing about King Charles, the first
Is that he was 5 foot 6 inches tall at the start of his reign
But only 4 foot 8 inches tall at the end of it because of
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England Puritan
Born in 1599 and died in 1658 September
[/PYTHON]

06-09-2011 ESPN's Burnside: Hulsizer submitted new deal; COG city manager dragging it out
06-20-2011 Coyotes related: Westgate faces foreclosure
06-21-2011 Phoenix, worst case scenario

Finally, the realm was restored ...

06-27-2011 Phoenix XXXVIII: Hulsizer Pulls Bid For Coyotes
08-16-2011 Phoenix XXXIX: You Never Give Me Your Money
10-18-2011 Phoenix XL: Rich Man's World
12-07-2011 Phoenix XLI: Bongo Fury
01-06-2012 Phoenix XLII: The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything
02-02-2012 Phoenix XLIII: How to Bake Cupcakes in Less Than Two Weeks
02-28-2012 Phoenix XLIV: Ignorance & Apathy (or I Doan't know & I Doan't Care)
03-28-2012 Phoenix XLV: You can't YANDLE the truth!
04-11-2012 Phoenix XLVI: (Tre)living on a prayer
04-21-2012 Phoenix XLVII: More Threads than Superbowls
05-01-2012 Phoenix XLVIII: Of Mice and Lieberman
05-08-2012 Phoenix XLIX: Smoke & Mirrors

A couple if Phoenix uThreads have popped up in the wake of the "To close, or not to close" mega-thread discussion:

03-16-2012 COG to spend more on Coyotes than public safety?
03-22-2012 Dreger (3/22): NHL to investigate "plan b" for Phoenix
03-23-2012 Sunnicks strikes again "will they stay or will they go now?"
03-28-2012 G&M: Architects of Glendale pro sports disaster won't be around for fallout
03-30-2012 Shoalts: Ice Edge talking about bringing (minor) hockey to the Job should Yotes leave
04-04-2012 Shoalts: Glendale Mayor Scruggs wants city's $$ back
04-05-2012 Coyotes CEO 'confident' team is staying in Glendale
04-05-2012 Puck Daddy: Coyotes battline relocation worries with public optimism
04-06-2012 A strong PHX team in the playoffs may bring a new owner.
04-10-2012 Father of PHX AGM Brad Treliving involved in keeping Coyotes in Glendale?
04-10-2012 PKP offer for Coyotes may be 230 million (mod: to QC w/relo $$)
04-10-2012 Beasley: Coyotes deal within a month
04-11-2012 Glendale, NHL trying to close Phoenix Coyotes deal with Jamison group
04-11-2012 Bettman: no timeline on Phoenix situation (AP)
04-13-2012 Adding up the Numbers in the Phoenix Jamison Bid
04-16-2012 COG's Lieberman calls for demonstration against Coyote deal
04-17-2012 COG - budget payment to Jamison group not to exceed $20m?
04-17-2012 GWI ready to scrutinize new deal
04-18-2012 Coyotes sale soon, five things to watch
04-21-2012 Jamison looking for more investors on Coyotes bid, could be 1-2 months away from deal
04-21-2012 Greg Jamison finally goes public with potential purchase of the Coyotes
04-24-2012 Glendale Busts its Budget; Pledges More Money for Yotes
04-27-2012 Coyotes working to convert bandwagon fans to full time fans
04-28-2-12 4/28: Coyote sale deal getting closer
04-30-2012 Phoenix Coyotes sale finalized May 8th? Hulsizer back in?
05-03-2012 Phoenix CEO/Pres Nealy - something could happen next week
05-04-2012 Feschuk: Phoenix Coyotes doing just fine, thanks
05-04-2012 If the yotes make the finals
05-04-2012 Former Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes assails NHL over Coyotes’ operations
05-07-2012 NHL to announce tentative deal re: sale to Jamison
05-08-2012 Sportsnet: COG promising $306mm over next 21 years
05-08-2012 Wall Street Journal: 'Glendale's Public Hockey Project' = Loss
05-17-2012 Phoenix saga: 5/22 end date
05-17-2012 Jamison signing preliminary sales docs with NHL 5/17 or 5/18

And, hey, why not, for completeness:

03-05-2010 NHL sues Jerry Moyes
 
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Mungman

It's you not me.
Mar 27, 2011
2,988
0
Outside the Asylum
Nicely done on the title K, wrong on phoenix and the roman numeral! XLVIIII, XLIX, IL.... it's all the same baby, keep it organic.

Sweet.

Oh yah, and to be on topic, I sure hope IEH pop back into our adventure soon. I miss those ragamuffins!
 

OthmarAmmann

Omnishambles
Jul 7, 2010
2,761
0
NYC
So let's say the council approves 4-3, and the BOG approves Jamison. Is the GWI really the only obstacle left before Jamison gets the keys?

Don't think GWI is much of an obstacle at all, but I could be wrong. CF certainly is far more knowledgeable than others and he doesn't set them aside so easily. I don't believe they had a material effect on the failure of the the last deal though.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
Nicely done on the title K, wrong on phoenix and the roman numeral! XLVIIII, XLIX, IL.... it's all the same baby, keep it organic.

Well, now Dangit, I even googled "How do you write 19 in Roman Numerals" and sure enough, that XLIX came up HOWEVER, some bizarro byzantine bean head said VIIII was also acceptable & common to the Gauls, Persians, Celts & other peons so I figured it was "acceptable". As for the 'N' in Phoe_icks?. Keys stuck. Spilled a beverage all over my laptop... plus, Im loaded. So MOD's, plz fixee'.

And by all means, go with the sexed up XLIX version. :cheers:
 

JMT21

I Give A Dam!
Aug 8, 2011
1,070
0
In My House
So what screws this deal up?

one of the investors getting cold feet......

COG voting against the lease agreement.

We have an idea what the lease entails but it's still purely speculation. Once the COG and GWI go thru the details... who knows what happens.

At this point we don't even know the actual purchase price and if GJ has all the $$$$. There is a big gap between saying you have the $$$ and actually signing the cheque and closing the deal.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
96,890
45,264
A Rockwellian Pleasantville
I'm not a conspiracy guy. I'm also not so dismissive of the NHL to think they are "stupid" or "evil". I'm thinking Gary(the BOG) and Greg are on the same page and have some reasonable expectation that they'll get four 'Yes' votes out of the COG on the lease Jamison has cooked up.

Maybe the COG throws a curve ball to kill this thing, but I'm not so sure. I really doubt the BOG will be a problem.

I was just wondering if there were some other major obstacle folks were worried about/counting.

Not that the COG doesn't count.
 

Einstein Theory

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
153
0
QUESTION:

Did we get an answer as to who else might be involved in this investors' group?

I'm begining to wonder if Jamison is not just the acceptable figure-head (or front-man) for a loose confederation of Ice Edge or Koules & Barrie type grifters?

Anyone else wondering this?? :dunno:
 

OthmarAmmann

Omnishambles
Jul 7, 2010
2,761
0
NYC
one of the investors getting cold feet......

COG voting against the lease agreement.

We have an idea what the lease entails but it's still purely speculation. Once the COG and GWI go thru the details... who knows what happens.

At this point we don't even know the actual purchase price and if GJ has all the $$$$. There is a big gap between saying you have the $$$ and actually signing the cheque and closing the deal.

Yeah, I think it just comes down to funding.
 

Einstein Theory

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
153
0
It appears our mayor Scruggs has just let the cat out of the bag on the NHL's (and Glendale's) losses for the last couple years. :amazed:

The Coyotes have lost between $37 million and 47 million each year under NHL ownership. That means the NHL itself has covered annual losses between $12 million and $22 million, over and above the $25 million "management fee" paid by Glendale.

English Translation from French for you here:

http://translate.google.com/transla...27-coyotes-a-quebec-labeaume-garde-espoir.php

"We will not make profits with the playoffs. J'invite ceux qui ne me croient pas à lire l'entente nous liant à la Ligue nationale!», a tranché Mme Scruggs. I invite those who do not believe me read the agreement binding us to the National League! "Ruled Ms. Scruggs. ...

"From one year to another, deficits ranged between 37 and 47 million U.S. dollars while our ceiling (financial responsibility) is $ 25 million.
 

Edgar Halliwax

aka Marvin Candle
Sep 23, 2011
2,550
1,165
Winnipeg
So I guess that means that a percentage of $$$ for the Jets merchandise I purchased over the last year (and it was a substantial amount of coin...) - is going to support the Coyotes.

Excuse me while I puke :shakehead
 

OthmarAmmann

Omnishambles
Jul 7, 2010
2,761
0
NYC
It appears our mayor Scruggs has just let the cat out of the bag on the NHL's (and Glendale's) losses for the last couple years. :amazed:

The Coyotes have lost between $37 million and 47 million each year under NHL ownership. That means the NHL itself has covered annual losses between $12 million and $22 million, over and above the $25 million "management fee" paid by Glendale.

English Translation from French for you here:

http://translate.google.com/transla...27-coyotes-a-quebec-labeaume-garde-espoir.php

IIRC the $25 mm cap was added at the last minute during the council meeting. Imagine if the city was facing a $57 mm budget deficit this year?? That well over 1/3 of their operating revenue!!!
 

Howler Scores

Registered User
Mar 13, 2011
6,024
18
Maricopa County
That comes from her rant at the end of yesterday's meeting. Those numbers have been reported for a while but she was referring to the agreement with the NHL for the past 2 years. I am not sure they have actually received the audited financial statements the NHL promised they would send them. According to Forbes, they had a negative operating income of $24 million last year so the truth is out there.

Around the 2:31 mark:

http://glendale-az.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=522
 

Edgar Halliwax

aka Marvin Candle
Sep 23, 2011
2,550
1,165
Winnipeg
QUESTION:

Did we get an answer as to who else might be involved in this investors' group?

I'm begining to wonder if Jamison is not just the acceptable figure-head (or front-man) for a loose confederation of Ice Edge or Koules & Barrie type grifters?

Anyone else wondering this?? :dunno:

As you requested:

9vbi2t.jpg
 

blues10

Registered User
Dec 10, 2010
7,221
3,120
Canada
It appears our mayor Scruggs has just let the cat out of the bag on the NHL's (and Glendale's) losses for the last couple years. :amazed:

The Coyotes have lost between $37 million and 47 million each year under NHL ownership. That means the NHL itself has covered annual losses between $12 million and $22 million, over and above the $25 million "management fee" paid by Glendale.

English Translation from French for you here:

http://translate.google.com/transla...27-coyotes-a-quebec-labeaume-garde-espoir.php

I guess Bobby Macs saying his sources indicated $90-$95 million losses over the past 2 seasons is pretty accurate. Who would have thunk that.

Next thread title - Money Pit
 

Mungman

It's you not me.
Mar 27, 2011
2,988
0
Outside the Asylum
Well, now Dangit, I even googled "How do you write 19 in Roman Numerals" and sure enough, that XLIX came up HOWEVER, some bizarro byzantine bean head said VIIII was also acceptable & common to the Gauls, Persians, Celts & other peons so I figured it was "acceptable". As for the 'N' in Phoe_icks?. Keys stuck. Spilled a beverage all over my laptop... plus, Im loaded. So MOD's, plz fixee'.

And by all means, go with the sexed up XLIX version. :cheers:

Me, I like the completely rule breaking IL.

Don't let anyone tell you you can't put the -1 in front of anything over X, fight the power baby!
 

Scottrocks58*

Guest
It appears our mayor Scruggs has just let the cat out of the bag on the NHL's (and Glendale's) losses for the last couple years. :amazed:

The Coyotes have lost between $37 million and 47 million each year under NHL ownership. That means the NHL itself has covered annual losses between $12 million and $22 million, over and above the $25 million "management fee" paid by Glendale.

English Translation from French for you here:

http://translate.google.com/transla...27-coyotes-a-quebec-labeaume-garde-espoir.php

It was nicely worded. They will not make a profit. That is not to say that they will now pay out less than $25million to the NHL.
 

Ugmo

Registered User
Oct 24, 2011
12,300
0
Notice how no one from Phx really heads over to the quebec thread to rain on parades and pile on.

Pile on about what.... the press conference where Bettman said nothing of substance, as usual?

These aren't the Coyotes boards, it's the business board, which is exactly the place for Winnipeg and Quebec fans to talk about the Coyotes situation.
 

CoyotesJetsFan

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
111
0
Pile on about what.... the press conference where Bettman said nothing of substance, as usual?

These aren't the Coyotes boards, it's the business board, which is exactly the place for Winnipeg and Quebec fans to talk about the Coyotes situation.

If everyone would stick to the subject of BUSINESS and eliminate the snarky, arrogant comments and pics (Ice Edge Clowns anyone?) then we would have only half the threads now. Some posters on here have legitimate issues, concerns about the game of hockey in Phoenix but MOST are here to run down the team in Phoenix soley for the benefit of moving a team. Thats what makes this area of the board so disappointing.
 
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