Phoenix CXVIII: No Promises

[Killion]

I would assume leblanks definition of super advanced is a lot different then our definition

Obviously.... and we dont know who's wagging the dog. Has he been given a Deadline by the League and if so.... how long, how much rope are they prepared to let out? Does he have until December 31st 2016, 2017, 2018 to get it together, shovels in the ground or what? Its still possible that some sort of hybrid deal between the COG, AEG & IA could be formulated provided the latter drops their childish enmities and anger with the City. That shouldnt be taken off the table as its within the realm of possibilities for if their pursuit of a new facility craters they'll have 3 options; 1) Relinquish their rent-to-own ambitions for the franchise & watch the team be sold out from underneath them, Relo'd out of State, possibly QC or; 2) Craft a new deal with AEG & the City; 3) Move with the team themselves to Seattle, taking on a Majority Partner provided of course Hansen gets things fast-tracked and is willing to give-up & share some of the revenue streams, which in & of itself seriously complicated & complex, obstacles, messy. That scheduling not exactly in harmony with IceArizonas.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Obviously.... and we dont know who's wagging the dog. Has he been given a Deadline by the League and if so.... how long, how much rope are they prepared to let out? Does he have until December 31st 2016, 2017, 2018 to get it together, shovels in the ground or what? Its still possible that some sort of hybrid deal between the COG, AEG & IA could be formulated provided the latter drops their childish enmities and anger with the City. That shouldnt be taken off the table as its within the realm of possibilities for if their pursuit of a new facility craters they'll have 3 options; 1) Relinquish their rent-to-own ambitions for the franchise & watch the team be sold out from underneath them, Relo'd out of State, possibly QC or; 2) Craft a new deal with AEG & the City; 3) Move with the team themselves to Seattle, taking on a Majority Partner provided of course Hansen gets things fast-tracked and is willing to give-up & share some of the revenue streams, which in & of itself seriously complicated & complex, obstacles, messy. That scheduling not exactly in harmony with IceArizonas.

So many questions, and the only ones who could actually answer them are probably 3 people in the 'yotes org, and 3 people in the NHL.

No one cares

 

[Killion]

So many questions, and the only ones who could actually answer them are probably 3 people in the 'yotes org, and 3 people in the NHL.

No one cares

... obviously the crew that constitutes IA & certainly the League, AEG & the COG care... the fans care... we care... regardless of which side of
the various equations ones opinions might fall. whats always been troubling, total lack of transparency. very troubling. not doing themselves any favors.

 

[Mightygoose]

$2000 has been raised towards the new arena.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/coyotes-defenceman-oliver-ekman-larsson-fined-diving/

Now that's what I call being team player

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

OEL may be the most under-rated player in the league. No east media watches, and Arizona's games are not that viewed either. I like what ARI is building, and any team that gets creative with the cap gets an A+ grade from me.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Of all the issues surrounding this situation, this one is probably the least worrisome. It's essentially a design issue that they could solve with the architect. In fact, if ASU is indeed involved then the facility is going to be built from the first block to be multipurpose and multi-configuration.

If anyone's worried about optics, the thing to worry about would be whether the configuration for NHL games would result in obstructed views and awkward angles like Barclay's Center in Brooklyn.

why was GRA BUILT THOUGH, TFP, and why the Coyotes were in that exact scenario from 1996-2003, w/ the Suns @ what is now TSRA, that's what the Coyotes hated and why they split from Phoenix to begin with, in deference to the eventual rebrand to Arizona instead of Phoenix as the mega threads continue on over the franchise stability.

In essence, had Moyes not placed this franchise through BK, WHERE would this franchise be today, certainly not having every little issue off ice be discussed whether right, wrong or indifferent, ie, whether we all care about Arizona/IA, AND NO MATTER WHAT WE BELIEVE, there will come a time where it's time to end these megathreads vis a vis where the team/franchise is, and where it goes forward and dissecting what IA, OR ANY FUTURE Coyotes owners will truly decide.

 

[TheLegend]

That's interesting about piggy-backing a tax district.

One comment about AEG, and then a question, TL.

About AEG, if they are truly playing straight in wanting to manage GRA for Glendale, then that means that under no circumstances would they want another facility in the Valley. That is probably the reason for their out-clause. So, if I am AEG, and I learn the arena plans of IA, I simply negotiate a very high rent for them while they wait the new stadium. Something like...2M/yr to use the facility, and IA gets only half of game-night revenues. And, no naming rights. Etc. As long as IA intends to put me out of business, I am going to make it difficult for them to do so. Negotiating like that would, or course, give IA a serious case of indigestion. They would be faced with 3 choices: Swallow and pay AEG at GRA. Negotiate with the Suns and Phoenix to play at Talking Stick (which is problematic because the rink doesn't fit, etc, etc, etc). Look into a way to use Vets (which has its own set of costs and problems as far as we have learned here, not least of which may be a non-functioning ice plant - and I am sorry if I remember that wrong). Faced with those choices, IA might decide to look into a relo (not that I am advocating that - I am just trying to follow how AEG might look at the situation). And, for AEG, if the Yotes move out-of-market, that might be as good a result as any...

Now, the question: Do you really think that has any serious $$ to bring in an offer for a new arena? And, do you agree with many here that they will require the sweetheart lease in order to make it financially, and that will have to be part of the negotiati/ons?

Thanks

I will take it you mean does IA have the serious cash.

The answer is I don't know. They definitely do not have enough to build one on their own, hence the need to partner up with someone. But that's what I'm waiting to see. LeBlanc seemed to indicate they could put up somewhere between $200-250 million. But what would that really get you?

They will obviously need revenue streams, and if they contribute the money to build a facility they would be entitled to a share in it. LeBlanc indicated there would be a practice/public facility also involved. That could provide one source on it's own.

Still would like the see what transpires before I comment into it any deeper.

 

[Slashers98]

I will take it you mean does IA have the serious cash.

The answer is I don't know. They definitely do not have enough to build one on their own, hence the need to partner up with someone. But that's what I'm waiting to see. LeBlanc seemed to indicate they could put up somewhere between $200-250 million. But what would that really get you?

They will obviously need revenue streams, and if they contribute the money to build a facility they would be entitled to a share in it. LeBlanc indicated there would be a practice/public facility also involved. That could provide one source on it's own.

Still would like the see what transpires before I comment into it any deeper.

Which owner is going to put $200M on a new arena when IA can barely build a decent roster on the ice and has trouble surviving without a large subsidy from Gongdale?

 

[mesamonster]

I will take it you mean does IA have the serious cash.

The answer is I don't know. They definitely do not have enough to build one on their own, hence the need to partner up with someone. But that's what I'm waiting to see. LeBlanc seemed to indicate they could put up somewhere between $200-250 million. But what would that really get you?

They will obviously need revenue streams, and if they contribute the money to build a facility they would be entitled to a share in it. LeBlanc indicated there would be a practice/public facility also involved. That could provide one source on it's own.

Still would like the see what transpires before I comment into it any deeper.

A couple of thoughts come to mind, in the unlikely event that IA is able to come up with some portion of funding for a new arena how does this benefit them financially? The cost of capital is loaded on top of what is currently owed to the Nhl and revenues will need to be shared with their partner. How does this scenario offer any advantage over their present cheap lease agreement with AEG?


People have said time and again that the location is not the issue in Glendale ( I think it has been a detriment). But moving to new East valley location, paying big money and receiving only a percentage of ancillary revenues, how could that be a formula for economic success? Point being, dollars in the door up marginally and dollars out up significantly. This scenario can only lead to more losses. The only way this team ever makes a dollar is via huge subsidies and total control of the revenues. I have not seen a single economic/arena plan that has these two elements in it! So why in the world would IA go forth with any of there supposed plans when there is no possible way to pro forma profitability? Sorry, the numbers DO NOT pencil in. If anyone has any insight as to how a new arena would bring prosperity to IA pleas share your thoughts on how that might work.

 

[Killion]

I will take it you mean does IA have the serious cash.

The answer is I don't know. They definitely do not have enough to build one on their own, hence the need to partner up with someone. But that's what I'm waiting to see. LeBlanc seemed to indicate they could put up somewhere between $200-250 million. But what would that really get you?

They will obviously need revenue streams, and if they contribute the money to build a facility they would be entitled to a share in it. LeBlanc indicated there would be a practice/public facility also involved. That could provide one source on it's own.

Still would like the see what transpires before I comment into it any deeper.

... yeah, could see a "partnership" of sorts with ASU on a much smaller multi-purpose facility, high-performance center, practice rink for the Coyotes, just dont see the practicality nor benefit to ASU on a 16,500 ~ 17,500+ arena.... as for where do they find the money.... indeed... with... "someone".... some "entity" with some credibility (though questionable integrity, none at all even better), experience & the money to go with... someone, some entity that'll provide the kind of money & intelligence required... keep schtum, maybe hiding behind a numbered company or perhaps a loan to IA with some major strings attached, all of it under the table of course... tahp sekret... well, lets see now TL... hmmm.... only party I can think of that would fit that bill is AEG.

 

[Fairview]

... yeah, could see a "partnership" of sorts with ASU on a much smaller multi-purpose facility, high-performance center, practice rink for the Coyotes, just dont see the practicality nor benefit to ASU on a 16,500 ~ 17,500+ arena.... as for where do they find the money.... indeed... with... "someone".... some "entity" with some credibility (though questionable integrity, none at all even better), experience & the money to go with... someone, some entity that'll provide the kind of money & intelligence required... keep schtum, maybe hiding behind a numbered company or perhaps a loan to IA with some major strings attached, all of it under the table of course... tahp sekret... well, lets see now TL... hmmm.... only party I can think of that would fit that bill is AEG.

And it all comes back to someone (mystery partner) investing several hundred million dollars into a facility and then not being able to collect any of the financial benefits of the building. Just throwing their money into the abyss. VERY risky when you are dealing with a franchise that has never in over 20 years had a season where they were not swimming in the red. Ownership group with little to no true wealth. Who in their right mind would invest in such a plan. Doesn't ASU have a board that oversees such dealings? Would they be cool with propping up the NHL franchise forever? The only entity that I can think of that would be able to keep pouring piles of cash into this money loser would be government. One way or another, I think IA goes to the state with their hand out. Without state support, nothing is likely to happen.

 

[TheLegend]

Which owner is going to put $200M on a new arena when IA can barely build a decent roster on the ice and has trouble surviving without a large subsidy from Gongdale?

Is this a serious question?? Or are you simply making a drive-by in the form of one??

... yeah, could see a "partnership" of sorts with ASU on a much smaller multi-purpose facility, high-performance center, practice rink for the Coyotes, just dont see the practicality nor benefit to ASU on a 16,500 ~ 17,500+ arena.... as for where do they find the money.... indeed... with... "someone".... some "entity" with some credibility (though questionable integrity, none at all even better), experience & the money to go with... someone, some entity that'll provide the kind of money & intelligence required... keep schtum, maybe hiding behind a numbered company or perhaps a loan to IA with some major strings attached, all of it under the table of course... tahp sekret... well, lets see now TL... hmmm.... only party I can think of that would fit that bill is AEG.

Gonna run with that "AEG is a mole" angle right to the end, eh??

 

[Roadrage]

Bottom line is, what is the financial benefit to being IA's partner in building an arena?

 

[Fugu]

Bottom line is, what is the financial benefit to being IA's partner in building an arena?

Well, if they do pay half the bill for construction, there is that benefit. The second being they divide revenues by their own events, while perhaps sharing the proceeds from nonsport events.

 

[Slashers98]

Is this a serious question?? Or are you simply making a drive-by in the form of one??




Gonna run with that "AEG is a mole" angle right to the end, eh??

Tell me where IA is going to get that kind of money since you believe this ownership group has been so good for the Coyotes.

 

[Fugu]

Tell me where IA is going to get that kind of money since you believe this ownership group has been so good for the Coyotes.

I doubt any of us here know that, Slasher, but that doesn't mean there isn't some way they can get it. Really the bottom line is that they have to find the money/arena, etc., stay at GRA, or sell the team (in-market or relo).

 

[Slashers98]

I doubt any of us here know that, Slasher, but that doesn't mean there isn't some way they can get it. Really the bottom line is that they have to find the money/arena, etc., stay at GRA, or sell the team (in-market or relo).

Well, maybe the NHL will fund it taking the necessary money in the players' escrow.

 

[Fugu]

Well, maybe the NHL will fund it taking the necessary money in the players' escrow.

I understand the humor, but this is a real NHL team and they do need an arena. The biggest question for us exactly is where that arena may turn out to be.

 

[Killion]

Gonna run with that "AEG is a mole" angle right to the end, eh??

... Indeed. John LeCarre stuff... Confucius included... who said "Men do not stumble over mountains, they stumble over mole hills"... This is Big Picture stuff. Soon, yes very soon.... AEG will control every major arena in every major market throughout the Southwest and yes, they do like to have equity, partial ownership including all of the incumbent garnishes of retail, commercial & residential development. Scottsdale, the region in question a highly attractive and decidedly high-end market. Quite a simple thing for them to reel in any number of investors from Abu Dhabi & elsewhere, many of whom are already major players with significant land holdings & developments throughout the State, the Southwest, the South & Florida.

 

[Killion]

why was GRA BUILT THOUGH, TFP, and why the Coyotes were in that exact scenario from 1996-2003, w/ the Suns @ what is now TSRA, that's what the Coyotes hated and why they split from Phoenix to begin with, in deference to the eventual rebrand to Arizona instead of Phoenix as the mega threads continue on over the franchise stability.

In essence, had Moyes not placed this franchise through BK, WHERE would this franchise be today, certainly not having every little issue off ice be discussed whether right, wrong or indifferent, ie, whether we all care about Arizona/IA, AND NO MATTER WHAT WE BELIEVE, there will come a time where it's time to end these megathreads vis a vis where the team/franchise is, and where it goes forward and dissecting what IA, OR ANY FUTURE Coyotes owners will truly decide.

... huh?

 

[mesamonster]

Well, maybe the NHL will fund it taking the necessary money in the players' escrow.

The takeaway from this discussion is pretty clear and has been the primary question most of us have posed for years. Is there a scenario where the Coyotes could exist anywhere in the Valley, new arena, GRA or wherever else where they could achieve profitability? Seems the overwhelming concensus is a resounding NO. Therefore there is little to discuss unless we can all agree that this is the NHL's pet toy which they are happy to absorb any and all losses to promote hockey in non-traditional markets. If that is the case then why bother propping up the IA ice clowns? Why not come clean, eliminate the goofball management and treat this franchise as a company owned store which it certainly appears to be!

 

[kihekah19*]

Get ready, it's happening soon.

 

[BattleBorn]

Get ready, it's happening soon.

Got some inside sources? What do you know?

 

[Fairview]

Get ready, it's happening soon.

Now...if that was Tony LeBlank making that statement, then I would laugh it off as more of his hot air BUT the fact that it is kihekah19 making the statement , well...it has got to be true. kihekah19, Are you the Super Secret Partner???

 

[Fugu]

Got some inside sources? What do you know?

I'd guess an arena announcement or details.