Phoenix CXII: The Devil is in the Details

[Dirty Old Man]

Agreed, how can this not be frustrating for the local crowd is beyond me.

Oh sure, it's frustrating, but no more or less now than previously...I tell you how I'm looking at it right now.

Either, yes, they're totally lying, shame on them...or...a lot of you are going to be proven very incorrect. Again.

If (a), fine, we got 7 - and counting - more years than some people thought we would; sad, sure, but I'll live. If (b), I'll *continue* to take opportunities to remind people here of (b) as the years roll past.

 

[Fugu]

Oh sure, it's frustrating, but no more or less now than previously...I tell you how I'm looking at it right now.

Either, yes, they're totally lying, shame on them...or...a lot of you are going to be proven very incorrect. Again.

If (a), fine, we got 7 - and counting - more years than some people thought we would; sad, sure, but I'll live. If (b), I'll *continue* to take opportunities to remind people here of (b) as the years roll past.

I know I thought the entire thing was iffy before IA signed that 15 yr lease with COG. Once that was signed, I figured we were done with the megathreads and watches. Never in a million years did I imagine IA would give COG an excuse to terminate the contract.

 

[TheLegend]

I know I thought the entire thing was iffy before IA signed that 15 yr lease with COG. Once that was signed, I figured we were done with the megathreads and watches. Never in a million years did I imagine IA would give COG an excuse to terminate the contract.

I know this is beating a dead horse but IA may have been given the impression Glendale was okay with them taking Tindall in.

But..... yes.... I agree they should have realized who they were dealing with and not opened themselves up to that mistake.

 

[GuelphStormer]

I know I thought the entire thing was iffy before IA signed that 15 yr lease with COG. Once that was signed, I figured we were done with the megathreads and watches. Never in a million years did I imagine IA would give COG an excuse to terminate the contract.

nor do I think Bettman figured it either. so now with the Yotes unexpectedly back in play, his view of all things relo- and expansion has likely changed. couple that with the other prime relo-candidate panthers duping broward county and shoring up their position in sunrise and i can only imagine how complicated his master plan has become.

bettman cannot do what he might want to do now, thanks entirely to glendale. there's delightful irony in that given how badly he screwed that city.

 

[Fairview]

Well that is the Coyote side of it. Has anyone not connected with the team been quoted about the result of this meeting? Or is the local media afraid to ask? This type of commentary has been coming from the Coyotes for months.

 

[Mightygoose]

So with this new arena talk been going on for 9 months now, they're still at four possible sites with no front runner and there's supposed to be a commitment within 6 weeks from one of them?

Meanwhile Glendale in less time can go from 3 interested bidders, narrow it down to their preference and is working on finalizing the contract.

IA's plan doesn't seem so super-progressed to me. Now they need to bring the big guns in to help close a deal if possible, plus nothing concrete from any of the prospective partners, at least confirm they're having discussion on a possible arena.

Sorry the longer this drags out, it's just exposing IA's ineffectiveness further

 

[cbcwpg]

Why don't they just come out and say that the possible sites for the new arena are "somewhere".

And I wonder if any of the groups looking at building this new arena have asked the NHL for any kind of commitment to , oh , I don't know, maybe staying this time without blackmailing the city the team resides in? " It's ONLY insurance " .... words to remember before getting into bed with the NHL.

 

[MNNumbers]

I am a little puzzled.

We have both Bettman and LeBlanc talking to all these cities, and claiming that.....

LeBlanc: In 6 weeks we should have an announcement. But the end of June is a firmer deadline, because of sponsorships, etc.

Bettman: Early May time frame and we are confident someone will meet that time frame.

Yet, as we all know, and CF has informed us, the cities themselves, and ASU, all have procedures they need to go through before committing monies to a new arena.

It seems impossible to me that any 'partner' is going to be able to come to a commitment on a new arena in 6 weeks or so.

Does anyone know if any of the cities have actually taken any action?

Thanks.

 

[mesamonster]

.... you really... I mean really really really really really REALLY despise this guy huh mesa?

I don't take kindly to liars.

 

[Llama19]

Craigette interview this morning on Doug and Wolfe...

Craig Morgan, ArizonaSports.com writer with Doug & Wolf (3/29)
Craig Morgan reports that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is in Phoenix meeting with the Coyotes and some of their possible arena partners. Morgan thinks these meetings are more than just preliminary.

Source (Audio - 10:55): http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=320322

 

[CasualFan]

This type of thing seems to crop up around key Glendale dates or is it just me? Regardless, all of the reportedly interested parties will probably build arenas for the Coyotes. I would think we'll see at least three new buildings announced before July 1.

By the way, who were the state officials that Gary and Tony met with? Don't seem to be listed in any of the press so far. If the meetings were all positive and this is very super progressed, wouldn't they be lining up to get their political capital out of this? As public entities, their calendars are not secret. Anyone got details on that?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Well that is the Coyote side of it. Has anyone not connected with the team been quoted about the result of this meeting? Or is the local media afraid to ask? This type of commentary has been coming from the Coyotes for months.

...considering that John Shannon is the same guy who is basically saying that the Hurricanes to Quebec City is virtually a done deal, I'll take anything he says/tweets with a grain of salt a salt lick the size of the Burj Khalifa.

At any rate, right now the local media are busy being outraged at the Diamondbacks pulling an IceArizona, so I don't think anyone's got the resources to send a reporter out for due diligence.

Does anyone know if any of the cities have actually taken any action?

I think the only concrete thing that's happened is that Phoenix sold a hotel.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Craigette interview this morning on Doug and Wolfe...

????

 

[JimAnchower]

This type of thing seems to crop up around key Glendale dates or is it just me? Regardless, all of the reportedly interested parties will probably build arenas for the Coyotes. I would think we'll see at least three new buildings announced before July 1.

By the way, who were the state officials that Gary and Tony met with? Don't seem to be listed in any of the press so far. If the meetings were all positive and this is very super progressed, wouldn't they be lining up to get their political capital out of this? As public entities, their calendars are not secret. Anyone got details on that?

Well, Glendale hasn't yet come to an agreement with AEG to be the new arena manager. Of course, that doesn't need to be done now. They would seem to just need an agreement by July 1. What does seem needed to be done now is IA is informed that their services won't be needed going forward. They do need 90 days notice. I don't know if a formal vote is needed for that or just a letter from Glendale to end the deal. So IA/NHL could be using this as a threat of "come to a deal with us or we'll have other cities build us more arenas and you'll be left out in the cold". After all, Tony has never said they won't come back to Glendale, just that it is "super unlikely".

Has anyone checked for flights from NJ/NY to Arizona to see if Bettman was indeed in town recently?

 

[MNNumbers]

Well, Glendale hasn't yet come to an agreement with AEG to be the new arena manager. Of course, that doesn't need to be done now. They would seem to just need an agreement by July 1. What does seem needed to be done now is IA is informed that their services won't be needed going forward. They do need 90 days notice. I don't know if a formal vote is needed for that or just a letter from Glendale to end the deal. So IA/NHL could be using this as a threat of "come to a deal with us or we'll have other cities build us more arenas and you'll be left out in the cold". After all, Tony has never said they won't come back to Glendale, just that it is "super unlikely".

Has anyone checked for flights from NJ/NY to Arizona to see if Bettman was indeed in town recently?

Concerning July 1 - That is really no deadline at all. The amendment to the lease actually states that Glendale can hire a new manager to begin at any time after July 1. Only need to give IA 90 days notice. So it really doesn't matter when AEG would start. In other words, there is no leverage there for IA/NHL. If the new manager (assumed to be AEG) begins Aug 1, then IA is paid 6.5M*1/12, for one month in the new fiscal year. Etc.

Also, it is interesting that LeBlanc never mentions that he is contractually obligated to play at GRA next year. What do you think that means?

 

[JimAnchower]

Concerning July 1 - That is really no deadline at all. The amendment to the lease actually stated that Glendale can hire a new manager to begin at any time after July 1. Only need to give IA 90 days notice. So it really doesn't matter AEG would start. In other words, there is no leverage there for IA/NHL.

I agree it isn't a firm deadline, but they would want someone in there around that time if they give IA the 90 days notice in the next few days. I view removing IA as arena manager and installing a new one as two separate events. They might be done at the same time, but it isn't necessary. IA could be given notice now and agreement with someone else comes later.

Also, it is interesting that LeBlanc never mentions that he is contractually obligated to play at GRA next year. What do you think that means?

He does play the victim well. Since no arena, or multiple arenas, will be build by next year, it probably doesn't mean anything significant.

 

[Roadrage]

????

Craigette = Craig Morgan of ArizonaSports.com

 

[MNNumbers]

I agree it isn't a firm deadline, but they would want someone in there around that time if they give IA the 90 days notice in the next few days. I view removing IA as arena manager and installing a new one as two separate events. They might be done at the same time, but it isn't necessary. IA could be given notice now and agreement with someone else comes later.

I agree that dismissing IA and hiring someone else could be 2 separate events. It seems, however, that Glendale is not taking that approach. I believe they would have to vote to dismiss IA, so that won't be happening.

I believe there is still some lack-of-agreement within the council, and that AEG is taking advantage of that, and thus there is no formal contract yet to be agreed to. (All of which I say without any insider knowledge. Simply my best guess, given what has happened.)

 

[Killion]

Also, it is interesting that LeBlanc never mentions that he is contractually obligated to play at GRA next year. What do you think that means?

I hear ya MN, but no, I wouldnt read too much into that though I do understand its your belief that its entirely possible these birds fly the coup to LV upon conclusion of either the Coyotes season or the Playoffs..... Logistically it could be pulled off if executed in early June however that runs contrary to the Leagues previous positions that a team simply cannot be moved past June (as per Moyes BK etc) though I doubt if such a thing should occur any member of the press has the spine to ask Bettman about that & remind him of his words, including stating such while under oath. Additionally, I dont think they'd do that to AEG, NHL insiders that they are in transitioning Management from IA. Pull the team now & absolutely it would put a strain on AEG in gaining lift over the first 12 months in managing GRA. Coyotes 41 home dates bringing in much needed revenues so a case of one hand washing the other. The NHL & IA getting dirtier in the process, indeed, Im at the point where Im thinking these meetings were little more than 3-5 minute meet & greets, general chat... followed by these twitters & reports by NHL Friendly Stooges, possibility of a new building absolutely a technicolor Mirage and they (Bettman, LeBlanc) absolutely know it. Just continually moving the nets around, pushing artificial deadlines back. So unless the dramatic does occur this June & the club sold & moved to Vegas, over the next 12 mnths we'll be fed a sickening diet of more of the same of this Im afraid.

 

[Llama19]

I agree that dismissing IA and hiring someone else could be 2 separate events. It seems, however, that Glendale is not taking that approach. I believe they would have to vote to dismiss IA, so that won't be happening.

I believe there is still some lack-of-agreement within the council, and that AEG is taking advantage of that, and thus there is no formal contract yet to be agreed to. (All of which I say without any insider knowledge. Simply my best guess, given what has happened.)

The city council has no say in the formal contract, as the city staff is working with AEG directly...

Once the contract is agreed to, then, and only then, will the formal vote and presentation be added to the city council's agenda to be voted on...

Curiously, there is a 'Special Workshop' (no agenda posted) scheduled for April 12 at 1:30 pm, and then their regular 'Voting' meeting for 6:00 p.m. that same day (again, no agenda posted)...

 

[GJB]

What on earth makes someone think things will change when this team is in a new building? They were being given 15m/year in the previous deal by the city. Is moving to another city really going to generate that much more revenue?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

What on earth makes someone think things will change when this team is in a new building? They were being given 15m/year in the previous deal by the city. Is moving to another city really going to generate that much more revenue?

It depends on the situation.

If they co-tenant with the Suns, they are dead meat. They are better off relocating out of state, IMO.

But if they partner with the tribe out on the reservation, there is a real possibility of some "creative financing" that could improve the team's bottom line, thanks to the lack of red tape that they'd find with all the special tax districting and governmental oversight they would encounter in Tempe/Mesa.

The prevailing theory is that the only thing keeping corporate sponsorship sparse with the franchise is that they're in Glendale and not "centrally located" but I don't personally buy that. But it's true that that assumption factors into the move across town as well.

 

[MNNumbers]

I hear ya MN, but no, I wouldnt read too much into that though I do understand its your belief that its entirely possible these birds fly the coup to LV upon conclusion of either the Coyotes season or the Playoffs..... Logistically it could be pulled off if executed in early June however that runs contrary to the Leagues previous positions that a team simply cannot be moved past June (as per Moyes BK etc) though I doubt if such a thing should occur any member of the press has the spine to ask Bettman about that & remind him of his words, including stating such while under oath. Additionally, I dont think they'd do that to AEG, NHL insiders that they are in transitioning Management from IA. Pull the team now & absolutely it would put a strain on AEG in gaining lift over the first 12 months in managing GRA. Coyotes 41 home dates bringing in much needed revenues so a case of one hand washing the other. The NHL & IA getting dirtier in the process, indeed, Im at the point where Im thinking these meetings were little more than 3-5 minute meet & greets, general chat... followed by these twitters & reports by NHL Friendly Stooges, possibility of a new building absolutely a technicolor Mirage and they (Bettman, LeBlanc) absolutely know it. Just continually moving the nets around, pushing artificial deadlines back. So unless the dramatic does occur this June & the club sold & moved to Vegas, over the next 12 mnths we'll be fed a sickening diet of more of the same of this Im afraid.

Killion,

When the lease guarantees to IA all the revenues form any game nights, just what exactly "needed revenues" do those 41 filled nights bring to AEG?

I am really curious about this. It must be something I do not understand, because, for the life of me, I can only see those 41 dates as 'promotion for the city and the area' because I can't see what tangible benefit they are to either the city or to the arena manager.

 

[wildcat48]

Isn't this basically the entire east valley? Sounds more like a case of Shannon throwing - you know what against the wall - and see what sticks.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Isn't this basically the entire east valley? Sounds more like a case of Shannon throwing - you know what against the wall - and see what sticks.

There are four very distinct sites:

SCOTTSDALE: Salt River-Maricopa Pima Indian reservation. Location of Talking Stick Resort and Salt River Fields, the Diamondbacks' new spring training facility, as well as an entertainment/dining complex. Google Maps

PHOENIX: In or around the current location of Talking Stick Resort Arena (formerly US Airways Arena, formerly America West Arena, etc.). The idea here is that TSRA will be repurposed into a consumer complex or mall and that the new barn would be built somewhere adjacent. Unfortunately, it also means that the Coyotes would co-tenant with the Phoenix Suns, which is worst-case scenario for team revenues. Google Maps

TEMPE: Located in the general vicinity of Karsten Golf Course by ASU. Built in conjunction with ASU on University-owned grounds. Google Maps

MESA: Location to be adjacent to or in the vicinity of Sloan Park, the Chicago Cubs' spring training facility. Nominally in Mesa, but only two miles east of the Tempe location at the junction of the 101 and 202 Loop freeways. Google Maps

In summary, the sites encompass a 48 square mile triangle reaching from Phoenix on the west side to Sloan Park on the east and up to the reservation in the northeast.

The Phoenix location is most central to the metro area but the least accessible. The other three locations are all off of major freeways. The reservation land is closest to the most affluent portion of the Valley (Scottsdale, Fountain Hills, etc.). Mesa's location is right at the junction of about 70% of the metro area's freeway traffic.