Player Discussion Phillip Danault

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Andrei79

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I understand the opinion that we don't have a center very top quality like Crosby, McKinnon or Toews. Danault isn't in that category, not even Bergeron or Kopîtar level. But he does his best. What I don't understand of Danault bashers is how do you get a better C?
How do we get that centerman, we do like this tv ad, we shake a bag of cat food and the cat arrive, is there is a top center food bag that we can shake and boom the centerman better than Danault arrive? It doesn't mean we will never have better than Danault as a center but the reality is it's so hard to get one. We traded Galchy for Domi and still it's not enough. Plekanec retired and is replaced by Danault, about the same.
Why Timmins did not draft Carter or Getzlaf, Zejak, Kopitar, Giroux and Bergeron, they were all avalaible. At least, like a consolation price, like an unemployement check, we have a middle of the first round center drafted by Chicago that does a decent job. We don't have anything else, no ufa centers wants to come here and we start bashing that brave guy who is giving his best. At his age, Danault can be there when the team will be better. He is not a problem on the ice or off ice, so why some people are on his case? We can keep him until a better ufa sign or a better center developp.

I don't have an issue playing Danault in the top 6 right now. The team is brutal. Though, I would rather see an offensive center with our offensive wingers. I do have an issue with trying to argue he belongs there on a good team. Why do make him out to be better than he actually is ?

You actually did it in your post. How is Danault the same as Plekanec ? Plekanec was a better player in every aspect of the game.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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I don't have an issue playing Danault in the top 6 right now. The team is brutal. Though, I would rather see an offensive center with our offensive wingers. I do have an issue with trying to argue he belongs there on a good team. Why do make him out to be better than he actually is ?

You actually did it in your post. How is Danault the same as Plekanec ? Plekanec was a better player in every aspect of the game.
I don't want to argue about Plekanec and Danault. The late Plekanec I know was worse than actual Danault. If you want to talk about Plekky at his prime, maybe yes, have to notice that Plekky onced played with Kovalev, Kostitsyn, Ryder, Higgins, Zednik, Cole. He had the second or first pairings wingers of the Koivu era, followed by the Gomez and Desharnais era.
Plekky will write a book on his hockey career with the title "Me Plekky and my 175 wingers". If he spend 4,5 pages on each players he played with, it's gonna be a 788 pages. 788 pages of pure delight, garanteed.
 
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Andrei79

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I don't want to argue about Plekanec and Danault. The late Plekanec I know was worse than actual Danault. If you want to talk about Plekky at his prime, maybe yes, have to notice that Plekky onced played with Kovalev, Kostitsyn, Ryder, Higgins, Zednik, Cole. He had the second or first pairings wingers of the Koivu era, followed by the Gomez and Desharnais era.
Plekky will write a book on his hockey career with the title "Me Plekky and my 175 wingers".

I dont know what you smoked during those years. Yeah, he had Kovalev and Kostitsyn that one year. Higgins and Ryder were Koivus wingers. Cole and Pacioretty were Desharnais'. And I have no idea how you think he benefited from the one or two shifts he got with Zednik on the fourth line as a rookie.

What I do know, is when he was put with Kovalev and Kostitsyn, he scored 69 points and 29 goals while being an elite player defensively. Wonder what he could have gotten with Radulov and Pacioretty. Likely we could imagine what it would be like from Danaults "how I managed not to produce or score with my teams best wingers - 4 straight years edition".
 

Andy

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Can someone explain to me all the hate Danault gets? He's incredibly strong on the puck, constantly makes great decisions with the puck and is outstanding defensively.

Sure, he's not super creative and the icetime he gets is out of his control, but he's a good player.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Can someone explain to me all the hate Danault gets? He's incredibly strong on the puck, constantly makes decisions and is outstanding defensively.

Sure, he's not super creative and the icetime he gets is out of his control, but he's a good player.

Basically, because we don't have a true #1C yet and because we are forced to use Danault, it's Danault's fault.
 

Andrei79

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Not me, but an NHL coach would. They would put those other C's on the wing or find another place for them.

I think we have watched enough hockey to know that NHL coaches like particular players. They have their tendancies, they like vets, etc... And they especially like lunch pale hard working guys. Danault is the prototypical player that coaches love. Can be trusted in all situations, wins FOs, can PK, and can add offense. An NHL coach will find a way to get this guy 18 minutes a game, no way is he playing 13 mins on a 3rd line. Thats just how they coach.

Its not about being better, its about what the player brings to the team. And Danault brings enough of what coaches love for him to play his way into a top 6 role on pretty much any team in the league.

Ok, you can rehash your previous points. We've established that. Now, why don't you answer the question.
 

BaseballCoach

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Can someone explain to me all the hate Danault gets? He's incredibly strong on the puck, constantly makes great decisions with the puck and is outstanding defensively.

Sure, he's not super creative and the icetime he gets is out of his control, but he's a good player.
Danault is not a super nifty stickhandler and can't score on a blistering wrister from 60 feet. He benefits from mistakes by others, starting with the goalie, who gives up a goal on EVERY ONE of Danault's points.

Phil Danault has been getting points for 3.5 years but it's just luck. The luck should realistically run out by the time he's 32 and then we'll see the real Pheal.
 

Andy

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Danault is not a super nifty stickhandler and can't score on a blistering wrister from 60 feet. He benefits from mistakes by others, starting with the goalie, who gives up a goal on EVERY ONE of Danault's points.

Phil Danault has been getting points for 3.5 years but it's just luck. The luck should realistically run out by the time he's 32 and then we'll see the real Pheal.
Yeah, I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to admit that Danault is a good hockey player.

I get that he's not super creative and gets to play between some of the better wingers on the club, but he still holds his own quite well. He's not a liability on the line, he makes incredibly smart decisions with the puck. He's great at getting the puck and keeping it on his stick. His board work is Eller-esque, especially in maintaing possession and keeping the cycle going. He's not lazy by any means and gets his nose dirty.

I can see that people are frustrated that he's getting the icetime with top wingers, but that's not really his fault and despite those opportunities, he's still a good player, and should be acknowledged as such.

Every time Danault is on the ice, I'm always impressed by the little things he does.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Danault is not a super nifty stickhandler and can't score on a blistering wrister from 60 feet. He benefits from mistakes by others, starting with the goalie, who gives up a goal on EVERY ONE of Danault's points.

Phil Danault has been getting points for 3.5 years but it's just luck. The luck should realistically run out by the time he's 32 and then we'll see the real Pheal.

A bit of luck and playing with Tatar and Gallagher has a lot to do with it for sure. However, this narrative applies to a heck of a lot of NHL players today. What's the problem? It's not like we are over paying him for what he brings to the table?

The only issue is if we overpay him on his next contract. If he wants to cash in, let him walk. Simple as that. However, I don't believe he is that type of selfish player and he wants to stay.

I don't understand the Danault tire deflating. It's not his fault we are forced to use him as our #1C. He's a decent middle 2C on a lot of teams.
 

Habs Halifax

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Yeah, I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to admit Danault is a good hockey player.

I get that he's not super creative and gets to play between some of the better wingers on the club, but he still holds his own quite well. He's not a liability on the line, he makes incredibly smart decisions with the puck. He's great at getting the puck and keeping it on his stick. His board work is Eller-esque, especially in maintaing possession and keeping the cycle going. He's not lazy by any means and gets his nose dirty.

I can see that people are frustrated that he's getting the icetime with top wingers, but that's not really his fault and despite those opportunities, he's still a good player, and should be acknowledged as such.

Every time Danault is on the ice, I'm always impressed by the little things he does.

I'm with you on this one! He's much better than what some are giving him credit for. Of course his stats are inflated with playing with Tatar and Gallagher. So what, that does not mean he's not playing well for us. He's a great middle 2C on most teams. Reality
 

Wats

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Danault is who I thought Eller would be if they developed him properly. Think Danault is a solid #2 if he can allow a #1 C to get most of the O-Zone draws and put up 50+ points. He's no Desharnais.
 
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Mrb1p

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The hate Danault gets: hes a really good 3C that plays over his head

The love Danault gets: TOP 40 C IN THE NHL BABY

Tell me which one is closer to the truth
 

Andy

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The hate Danault gets: hes a really good 3C that plays over his head

The love Danault gets: TOP 40 C IN THE NHL BABY

Tell me which one is closer to the truth
The one in the middle of these two statements.
 

Andy

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Hes a decent 2C that you dont win with? Fair, I think that too.
I'm not sure I agree with that statement.

Danault isn't the reason a team wins or doesn't win. The success of most top clubs is due to their star players. Danault would be a great complement to any team with star players and wouldn't adversely affect their club.

Danault is overplayed because the habs have no stars. I guess you can argue that Domi or KK should get Danault's minutes, I may agree with the former case, but I wouldn't in the latter case. KK has a lot of developing to do.

The problem isn't Danault's ability, the problem is that the Habs' lack of top talent requires us to play a second line C as a first line, like we did with Plekanec.
 
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Patccmoi

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I'm with you on this one! He's much better than what some are giving him credit for. Of course his stats are inflated with playing with Tatar and Gallagher. So what, that does not mean he's not playing well for us. He's a great middle 2C on most teams. Reality

Even the "stats inflated by playing with them" argument is kinda moot imo. Gallagher and Tatar are good wingers, but they're not Ovechkin either. They don't just produce on their own out of nowhere playing with anyone. All centers with a good production "benefit" from playing with good wingers. There's very few centers that have great stats while playing with the team's 3rd and 4th best pair of wingers, not sure why Danault should be any different.

At 5v5, Danault has excellent stats, compared with anyone but the truly elite centers in the league. His issue is that he is not a PP player, because his strength isn't pure skill. So his stats will always be held back by that, and people will keep saying he should be a good 3rd line center. But it's just not true at 5v5 and hasn't been for 2 years. He's definitely better than a 3rd line center there and deserves quality wingers. He just doesn't deserve them on the PP and we need more skilled players to play there. But considering we put Cousins and Weal on the PP, there's other issues there...
 

BaseballCoach

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Danault is who I thought Eller would be if they developed him properly. Think Danault is a solid #2 if he can allow a #1 C to get most of the O-Zone draws and put up 50+ points. He's no Desharnais.
Danault and Desharnais share a very important quality for some here, and it's not the center position.
 

ZUKI

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The hate Danault gets: hes a really good 3C that plays over his head

The love Danault gets: TOP 40 C IN THE NHL BABY

Tell me which one is closer to the truth
depends on what is the meaning of " top 40 C " . If it's only about goals, no he's not . If it's as a checking line center he's top 10 . If it's about points , right now he's top 23-26 ( all at 22 pts )
 

Sorinth

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Even the "stats inflated by playing with them" argument is kinda moot imo. Gallagher and Tatar are good wingers, but they're not Ovechkin either. They don't just produce on their own out of nowhere playing with anyone. All centers with a good production "benefit" from playing with good wingers. There's very few centers that have great stats while playing with the team's 3rd and 4th best pair of wingers, not sure why Danault should be any different.

At 5v5, Danault has excellent stats, compared with anyone but the truly elite centers in the league. His issue is that he is not a PP player, because his strength isn't pure skill. So his stats will always be held back by that, and people will keep saying he should be a good 3rd line center. But it's just not true at 5v5 and hasn't been for 2 years. He's definitely better than a 3rd line center there and deserves quality wingers. He just doesn't deserve them on the PP and we need more skilled players to play there. But considering we put Cousins and Weal on the PP, there's other issues there...

I definitely agree with you about the inflated stats, just because he plays with our best wingers doesn't mean he plays with amazing wingers.

The biggest problem with Danault lineup wise is that if you want to contend for the cup you generally want two 1st line centers, so a guy like Danault who is a good 2nd line center doesn't really have a role.
 

scrubadam

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Can someone explain to me all the hate Danault gets? He's incredibly strong on the puck, constantly makes great decisions with the puck and is outstanding defensively.

Sure, he's not super creative and the icetime he gets is out of his control, but he's a good player.

1. MB traded for him, actually stole him from CHI in one of the most lopsided trades in recent years.

2. He isn't young or foreign enough, and because he is french its automatically assumed he is the same as DD and stealing time from KK/Suzuki/Phoeling or whoever else is the darling of HF.

3. Fans are starved for an offensive player like the glory days and since Danault is an all around player he takes the brunt of it because of point 2. If only PD was on the 3rd line then we would have an offensive superpower 2nd line because Gally and Tatar are elite level 90 point guys carrying Danault to his pathetic 5 v 5 production.
 

scrubadam

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Ok, you can rehash your previous points. We've established that. Now, why don't you answer the question.

I did. I told you that on a contending team a coach will find a way to play Danault in top 6 minutes and since he is good on FO he would play C. And since he can shut down the opposition he would get crucial minutes.

I can't put myself in an imaginary situation where I am the coach and I have a center line of McKinnion/McDavid/Matthews/Crosby and find a way to give Danault those minutes.

But NHL coaches love themselves lunch player type players, 200 ft players, and guys who can win FO so Danault will get his minutes by the coach coaching. I am not going to go through the list and say Danault is better or worse than this guy. He isn't elite level, but he does all the things coaches love and that is where he would get his playing time, wether the team is contending or at the bottom of the league.
 

scrubadam

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A bit of luck and playing with Tatar and Gallagher has a lot to do with it for sure. However, this narrative applies to a heck of a lot of NHL players today. What's the problem? It's not like we are over paying him for what he brings to the table?

The only issue is if we overpay him on his next contract. If he wants to cash in, let him walk. Simple as that. However, I don't believe he is that type of selfish player and he wants to stay.

I don't understand the Danault tire deflating. It's not his fault we are forced to use him as our #1C. He's a decent middle 2C on a lot of teams.

I would say that Domi crapping the bed this year is forcing Danault to be the 1C more than he needs to be. If Domi was Domi of last year we would be saying Domi is our 1C, at least offensivly.

Also its not Danault fault that he has good chemistry with BG and Tatar. We can harp on CJ for not splitting that line up, but when its really the only dependable line that you can count on can you blame the guy. Sure he could put BG with Domi but then what happens when thats not working and you broke up your one line that you can count on game in game out?

We saw Tatar moved off that line and it didn't really work and Tatar is back. I bet the same would happen with BG and within a few games BG would be back too.
 
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scrubadam

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I'm not sure I agree with that statement.

Danault isn't the reason a team wins or doesn't win. The success of most top clubs is due to their star players. Danault would be a great complement to any team with star players and wouldn't adversely affect their club.

Danault is overplayed because the habs have no stars. I guess you can argue that Domi or KK should get Danault's minutes, I may agree with the former case, but I wouldn't in the latter case. KK has a lot of developing to do.

The problem isn't Danault's ability, the problem is that the Habs' lack of top talent requires us to play a second line C as a first line, like we did with Plekanec.

I don't think Domi should get PD's PK and defensive minutes, nor should he be counted on to win a big FO. But Domi is not having the same season he had last year and thats whats hurting the team. If we had Domi producing like last year then we wouldn't need PD to bring the offense as much and the time could be split more even.

MB should take a bit of blame on that as can injuries. Domi has had to play with guys like Weal/Cousins/Lek. Drouin was doing well until the injury and Armia is a good guy to compliment them, but not to compliment the other wingers I mentioned. Domi needed another guy to play with him outside of Drouin.

But that doesn't absolve Domi completely, he hasn't been as good this year as he was last year and regardless of line mates he should be better. he made a ton of oppurtunties for himself last year and scored a ton of goals on his own.
 

ECWHSWI

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I would say that Domi crapping the bed this year is forcing Danault to be the 1C more than he needs to be. If Domi was Domi of last year we would be saying Domi is our 1C, at least offensivly.

Also its not Danault fault that he has good chemistry with BG and Tatar. We can harp on CJ for not splitting that line up, but when its really the only dependable line that you can count on can you blame the guy. Sure he could put BG with Domi but then what happens when thats not working and you broke up your one line that you can count on game in game out?

We saw Tatar moved off that line and it didn't really work and Tatar is back. I bet the same would happen with BG and within a few games BG would be back too.
the Habs are NOT winning games.
 

Mrb1p

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I'm not sure I agree with that statement.

Danault isn't the reason a team wins or doesn't win. The success of most top clubs is due to their star players. Danault would be a great complement to any team with star players and wouldn't adversely affect their club.

Danault is overplayed because the habs have no stars. I guess you can argue that Domi or KK should get Danault's minutes, I may agree with the former case, but I wouldn't in the latter case. KK has a lot of developing to do.

The problem isn't Danault's ability, the problem is that the Habs' lack of top talent requires us to play a second line C as a first line, like we did with Plekanec.

A second line center should, most of the time, be a star player, if youre going to win anything.

Danault would be a third line center (Or 4th in some cases like 09 Pittsburgh and 08 Detroit.) on every single team that won the cup, heck, probably in history. What he really is a mediocre 2C and a great 3C

Obviously it would look better if Mackinnon was ahead of him, but it would look even better if he was 3rd.

Don't forget that the goal isn't to build a decent or mediocre team, but a great contender. In this case, Danault is not adequate in a top 6.

depends on what is the meaning of " top 40 C " . If it's only about goals, no he's not . If it's as a checking line center he's top 10 . If it's about points , right now he's top 23-26 ( all at 22 pts )
Top 10 in being a 3rd line center, nice
 
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