Player Discussion Phillip Danault

Status
Not open for further replies.

ZUKI

I hate the haters...
Oct 23, 2003
13,990
4,382
montreal
So he would play ahead one of:

Point/Stamkos
Crosby/Malkin
Mcdavid/Draisatl
Tavares/Matthews
Backstrom/Kuznetsov
Bergeron/Krejci
Mackinnon/Kadri
Barkov/Trochek
Giroux/Couturier
Couture/Hertl
Schenn/O'Reilly
Horvat/Petersson
Karlsson/Stastny
Scheifele/Wheeler

There are others that are debatable , but I think you're overestimating Danault...
And how many duos of your list have won a cup ?
Fact is you just bring 2 x center names there as they could win a Cup by themselves . Hockey is a team game . Therefore you can be less good for the offensive part but still valuable as much as others because you fit into a specific role
 
  • Like
Reactions: angusyoung

HabsWhiteKnightLOL

Registered User
Apr 29, 2017
34,191
45,264
Somewhere on earth in a hospital
And how many duos of your list have won a cup ?
Fact is you just bring 2 x center names there as they could win a Cup by themselves . Hockey is a team game . Therefore you can be less good for the offensive part but still valuable as much as others because you fit into a specific role
The cup argument is stupid

Being a good duo and not winning the cup dont mean ur bad
 
  • Like
Reactions: angusyoung

Kwikwi

Registered User
Feb 13, 2009
2,251
1,401
Guy boucher at On jase had a good explanation about buying into the system saying a player like Barzal leaves tons of points on the table to respect the system.

points are good, wins are better.
 

HabsWhiteKnightLOL

Registered User
Apr 29, 2017
34,191
45,264
Somewhere on earth in a hospital
in your eyes Danault is the worst center of the NHL so how should we answer to that biased question ?
When i said that Danault is the worst center of the NHL?

Stop saying things i never said , the only i say on this forum is that Danault is a 3rd center playing 1st on default and that his goals this year are deflections from his own body.

I never said he was '' the worst center in the nhl''
 

angusyoung

Back in the day, I was always horny!
Aug 17, 2014
11,697
11,951
Heirendaar
in your eyes Danault is the worst center of the NHL so how should we answer to that biased question ?

upload_2019-12-5_17-8-42.jpeg


Like this!
 

ZUKI

I hate the haters...
Oct 23, 2003
13,990
4,382
montreal
When i said that Danault is the worst center of the NHL?

Stop saying things i never said , the only i say on this forum is that Danault is a 3rd center playing 1st on default and that his goals this year are deflections from his own body.

I never said he was '' the worst center in the nhl''
Mrb1p made the post i quoted . Not you
 
  • Like
Reactions: dralaf

Andrei79

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
15,303
27,360
Not me, but an NHL coach would. They would put those other C's on the wing or find another place for them.

I think we have watched enough hockey to know that NHL coaches like particular players. They have their tendancies, they like vets, etc... And they especially like lunch pale hard working guys. Danault is the prototypical player that coaches love. Can be trusted in all situations, wins FOs, can PK, and can add offense. An NHL coach will find a way to get this guy 18 minutes a game, no way is he playing 13 mins on a 3rd line. Thats just how they coach.

Its not about being better, its about what the player brings to the team. And Danault brings enough of what coaches love for him to play his way into a top 6 role on pretty much any team in the league.

Who would Danault play over ?

RNH ? Kadri ? Stastny ?

Definitely Wheeler as Wheeler has been a top winger for years.

But I'd like to see you argue where in that list would he play top 2 and which centers would be put on the wing.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

Registered User
Jul 3, 2016
7,702
5,780
Nowhere land
My bad, jumped in at the wrong time,got it. Correct you are though,never shoots,just kind of somersaults in to the goalie somehow like a bowling bowl.
He actually did 3 goals like that in the last 2 years and for some fans here it seems like 85% of his goals, they over emphasize on that, when the very majority of Dano's goals are shoots. Most of the time close to the net, some quick deflections and sometimes a shoot of 25 feet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: angusyoung

Andrei79

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
15,303
27,360
Goals are goals, whatever they are being scored.

They are. The question is how often can those plays translate into consistent goal scoring.

Hint: the answer lies within Danaults goal totals since his Q years.


*incoming comments about completely different players like Andreychuk, Smyth and Homlstrom*
 

Andrei79

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
15,303
27,360
He actually did 3 goals like that in the last 2 years and for some fans here it seems like 85% of his goals, they over emphasize on that, when the very majority of Dano's goals are shoots. Most of the time close to the net, some quick deflections and sometimes a shoot of 25 feet.

Seeing as he usually struggles to score 20 over two years, he's had only 2 or 3 of mostly every type of goal. So, mostly any amount becomes a significant ratio in his case.
 

Andrei79

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
15,303
27,360
Guy boucher at On jase had a good explanation about buying into the system saying a player like Barzal leaves tons of points on the table to respect the system.

points are good, wins are better.

What are you implying here ? Please expand on the subject.

We know the wins part isn't what Danault's bringing. So... Is Danault leaving "tons" of points on the table like Barzal ? I wonder if there's anything in both players history dating back to juniors that could leave us to believe that Barzal does leave points on the table, while Danault might rather be posting inflated numbers.
 

Kwikwi

Registered User
Feb 13, 2009
2,251
1,401
What are you implying here ? Please expand on the subject.

We know the wins part isn't what Danault's bringing. So... Is Danault leaving "tons" of points on the table like Barzal ? I wonder if there's anything in both players history dating back to juniors that could leave us to believe that Barzal does leave points on the table, while Danault might rather be posting inflated numbers.

Danault has a good work ethic, understand what the coach want, and will not put the team in jeopardy.

Not comparing Barzal to Danault, he used him and Bergeron as an exemple.

So please explain to me how a player how his shutting down big lines isnt bringing wins?

Because basing a player around production instead of what he brings to the team is what Boucher was implying.
 

Andrei79

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
15,303
27,360
Danault has a good work ethic, understand what the coach want, and will not put the team in jeopardy.

Not comparing Barzal to Danault, he used him and Bergeron as an exemple.

So please explain to me how a player how his shutting down big lines isnt bringing wins?

Because basing a player around production instead of what he brings to the team is what Boucher was implying.

Because having to cite it implies there's some sort of aspect either holding him back from production he's never had or that he's actually bringing in wins with his usage, rather than that usage being a symptom and one of the very reasons why this team has been losing moreso than winning with him as the first line center.

In any case, do you feel top lines are actually being shut down against this team? In the case of low end top lines, I'd tend to agree: but who cares about that.

Really, if he's not suited for his current role, and he's not, then he's not "bringing wins". Then, it becomes a matter of determining whether he's suited as a #2 or a #3 on a "winning" team and where he ranks amongst those comparables. The problem here is the further you go down the lineup, the closer you come to what's an average regular roster player. Meaning the question then becomes how much better he is to that player and according to that, how valuable he really is.

For example, nobody would doubt how much better Kuznetsov is than that average 2nd/3rd line player - and that's why the Capitals were a legitimate threat i.e. they had players who "win".

The problem on this board though is the standard for players and forward rosters has become much too low, making this concept foreign to a significant part of it. Like, the argument has really become how not that bad these players are. I mean, let's push for better players and put these guys in better situations for the team.
 
Last edited:

The Great Weal

Phil's Pizza
Jan 15, 2015
52,885
66,181
Gallagher and Tatar are no superstars, so it's not like it's ALL them that are making Danault play up to a 60+point pace. People here are acting as if he is like Anisimov(who still never matched Danaults career high) playing with Panarin and Kane.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dralaf

Andrei79

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
15,303
27,360
These “you can’t win with x player in y position “ discussions are so stupid. The Blues won the Cup with two career sub 60 point C’s. Their first pair C had 54 in 72 their cup year.u

Of course a team can win with a 50 point second line C. Phil isn’t the problem, its lack of a true star C. Hopefully KK or Suzuki turn into these. We could go long way with Suzuki, KK and Phil down the middle. Could be an great core but one of those two young guns needs to develop into a 65-80 point guy

What you meant to say is the Blues had a first line center with 77 points and who won a Selke. One who hasn't paced under 60 points since his 20 year old season and one who hasn't scored less than Danaults career high over a full season since his 19 year old season.

Their 2nd line center hasn't paced under 60 in his two season with them and hasn't scored less than Danaults career high since his 23 year old season, when he was a winger. In his only season as their teams first line center, he scored 70 points. In any given season, he scores more goals than Danault does over two.

The question is whether Danault fits into their category of centers and the answer would be no. The Blues had their two 65-80 point centers, with two way games to boot. The Habs, seeing how Domi's coming back to earth, seem to have none.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JoelWarlord

CauZuki

Registered User
Feb 19, 2008
12,339
12,171
And how many duos of your list have won a cup ?
Fact is you just bring 2 x center names there as they could win a Cup by themselves . Hockey is a team game . Therefore you can be less good for the offensive part but still valuable as much as others because you fit into a specific role

Thank you very much for this post , it should be the first example user to describe a straw man
We were discussing the premise of Danault being a better option at C in the top 6 for most cup contending teams. Nobody was saying that you can't win with Danault or that yiu needed better Cs than Danault to have success, we aren't dealing in absolutes here...Danault is a fine player but he doesn't belong in the conversation with most competitive teams top Centers.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
Who would Danault play over ?

RNH ? Kadri ? Stastny ?

Definitely Wheeler as Wheeler has been a top winger for years.

But I'd like to see you argue where in that list would he play top 2 and which centers would be put on the wing.

Like I said Danault is a coaches player. The coach in the end is going to find a way to play Danault because he does all the things coaches love. So its not about his player rating in NHL Playstation or better than this or that. Its about team and role and since Danault can win FO's, PK, play shut down, chip in 5 v 5, and plays the way a coach wants him to, he is going to play his way onto top 6 minutes.

he would 100% beat out RNH and Statsny of this, Kadri as well. Kadri had 2 better goal years and is a bit insane but is as good at shutting down and on FO? You have to look at the total package.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aldo Montoya

Catanddogguitarrr

Registered User
Jul 3, 2016
7,702
5,780
Nowhere land
Because having to cite it implies there's some sort of aspect either holding him back from production he's never had or that he's actually bringing in wins with his usage, rather than that usage being a symptom and one of the very reasons why this team has been losing moreso than winning with him as the first line center.

In any case, do you feel top lines are actually being shut down against this team? In the case of low end top lines, I'd tend to agree: but who cares about that.

Really, if he's not suited for his current role, and he's not, then he's not "bringing wins". Then, it becomes a matter of determining whether he's suited as a #2 or a #3 on a "winning" team and where he ranks amongst those comparables. The problem here is the further you go down the lineup, the closer you come to what's an average regular roster player. Meaning the question then becomes how much better he is to that player and according to that, how valuable he really is.

For example, nobody would doubt how much better Kuznetsov is than that average 2nd/3rd line player - and that's why the Capitals were a legitimate threat i.e. they had players who "win".

The problem on this board though is the standard for players and forward rosters has become much too low, making this concept foreign to a significant part of it. Like, the argument has really become how not that bad these players are. I mean, let's push for better players and put these guys in better situations for the team.
I understand the opinion that we don't have a center very top quality like Crosby, McKinnon or Toews. Danault isn't in that category, not even Bergeron or Kopîtar level. But he does his best. What I don't understand of Danault bashers is how do you get a better C?
How do we get that centerman, we do like this tv ad, we shake a bag of cat food and the cat arrive, is there is a top center food bag that we can shake and boom the centerman better than Danault arrive? It doesn't mean we will never have better than Danault as a center but the reality is it's so hard to get one. We traded Galchy for Domi and still it's not enough. Plekanec retired and is replaced by Danault, about the same.
Why Timmins did not draft Carter or Getzlaf, Zejak, Kopitar, Giroux and Bergeron, they were all avalaible. At least, like a consolation price, like an unemployement check, we have a middle of the first round center drafted by Chicago that does a decent job. We don't have anything else, no ufa centers wants to come here and we start bashing that brave guy who is giving his best. At his age, Danault can be there when the team will be better. He is not a problem on the ice or off ice, so why some people are on his case? We can keep him until a better ufa sign or a better center developp.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad