Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by Belial, Jun 20, 2019.
There was unfinished business in that old thread!
In 2/3 years hopefully. Domi on Kotka’s LW..
He needs to score more goals to ever be a legit top 6 center on a great team. His passing game isn't good enough to compensate.
50+ points and top 10 in Selke voting is a legit top 6 centre. I know people don't like admitting they were wrong about him, but its not a debate anymore.
Many legit Top-6 center don't get both at the same time in their career, so I don't know why there's a problem with Danault having done this (only) once.
He had 40 points two years ago in his first full season as a centre, the next year he was on pace for 40 again on an absolute tirefire of a team.
This season he was 32nd in the league among centres for even strength points. Over 50 points with very little PP time (worst PP in franchise history anyway). 7th in Selke voting. PDO was 99.8 so its not like we should expect some huge regression. Its just a case of us going to a more aggressive possession system that he can thrive in, combined with linemates that he has a lot of chemistry with. I don't see a big jump for him next year, but I do expect more of the same.
On a mediocre team sure. That was my point.
Because nobody would ever use "top 10 in Selke" unless he's trying to make someone laugh.
Guys like Jay MccLement were once top 10 in selke. Thats what happens when you're overplayed in a big market team. Put him in Florida or Carolina and he doesn't sniff all these 4th or 5th place votes.
This team would have signed Frans Nielsen long term (another top 10 Selke candidate) and kept Barzal on the third line. That's how backwards this team and it trickles down to the fanbase. Somehow, its acceptable to be an ok playmaker and score 13 goals with the 4 best wingers the team has had since the last lockout.
He needs to score more. Period. That or improve his playmaking. As of now, he's an overused middle 6 center.
Top 10 in Selke is obviously an achievement, if your only argument is that once a defensive specialist was also top 10 then you need to re-evaluate something.
I'll also repeat something else I just said. 32nd in even strength points among NHL centres. How is that middle six production? Both of his wingers had career years, that wouldn't have been possible if he was the offensive black hole you are pretending he is.
I’d like to see him score more as well, but you have to consider how he is used. He plays 17 mins, starts in his own end 55 percent of the time, took all the tough assignments last year - our 4th line was not responsible- plays no PP and is first wave PP. In that context what would you expect him to produce in terms of goals?
For context ROR averages less then 15 ES goals per year. 2 years ago he had 9.
In 2 3 years Dunno will need a new contract, hell be paid 6 millions to be a 3rd C?
He will only be paid 6mm if he’s playing like a 6mm player, which is a good problem to have. If he is only a lowly 3rd line C he will get paid market value for 3 C.
Yeah, why shoud I be comparing Danault to his comparables ? I really should be re-evaluating something here . Nielsen was what Danault is and what you won't be finding on the top 6 of teams with cup aspirations.
And how strange is it that the two best wingers on the team would (barely) have career years in a year where a number of players did seeing as, you know, scoring was significantly higher this year.
And you can repeat something that doesn't help your argument as much as you'd like. Are either 32nd in ES or 45th in point production 1st line center numbers ? No. So, that would put him on the fringe of the top 6... like a middle 6 center that gets overplayed.
You can also repeat that 32nd ES production as much as you want. I mean, it's not like his two wingers were scoring goals in bunches at ES. And it's not like they've also historically been great ES scorers, even -shocking- without Danault. And it's not like Danault had the most secondary assists on the team while being 6th in centers for secondary assists .
Oh, and there's this small stat that shows Danaults Corsi plummets without Tatar/Gallagher, while it's not the case for these two without their two usual linemates.
Hmmmm, really makes you think about what could be at play here.
This is not how things work in real life.
Danault is playing over his head right now, hes playing 19 minutes a night, as much as most 1C out there, he's nowhere near as good as the money he will want, and to be fair, he's right to ask for that money.
Really i can't see how anyone can defend Gallagher having career lows in APG/Raw assists. Its not a coincidence at all that in the highest scoring season since forever, in his prime, Gallagher has 14 assists, lol.
He played 17:47 last year with almost no PP time and 55 percent d zone starts. Closer to 3 C then 1 C.
Happy to discuss the player buts lets agree on a baseline here. This is a guy that has good linemates but plays a mostly defensive role. He was our shutdown C last year.
He had no PP time, because he's not that good in the Power play...
And seriously, anyone that needed the Selke voting to validate his defensive play hasn’t been paying attention. He is easily one or the best defensive forwards that can take a regular shift we’ve had in a while. Prime Pleks was similar but Danault is way better down low.
I don’t watch 30 teams so can’t stack rank him but he is clearly elite. Mackenzie watches tons of hockey and had him third best. Doesn’t matter, he is by far our best defensive forward and defence matters
Not true, there, for your education : Pas question d'utiliser Phillip Danault en avantage numérique | Mathias Brunet | Hockey
Doesnt matter what you think he's used at, 18 minutes on average isn't 3C, its closer to 1C. Hes gonna want that money, every player in history got paid this way.
Danault is supposedly a really good PP player, but Julien want to use him for something else... Yeah, my ass.
The guy can't dish the puck well and is not a good scorer, what do you want him to do in the power play ?
Hurrah for gish gallop of nonsense!!!! Lets break it down.
"Nielsen WAS like Danault, he WON'T be on a contender" past tense, then present tense. He would have been a fine 2C when he was good, he wouldn't now that he's not good. Congrats on that one.
Stressing that they both "barely" set care career bests... cool... still career bests. Top 6 wingers don't set career bests playing with a 3C.
His wingers weren't scoring ES goals? 29/33 for Gally, 21/25 for Tatar. 50/58 total seems like a lot...
32nd isn't 1C numbers? No one said he was a 1C, we are saying he is a quality top 6 C and 32nd is quality top 6 numbers, especially at C. 45th overall doesn't matter as he barely played on the PP. Your claim that 32nd is middle six is embarrassing.
Secondary assists? Cool. Get back to me when that means something.
His corsi goes down when he's not playing with them? Considering they played together all year that must be some quality sample size. Probably when he goes in without them as a second C for D zone draws and shutdown situations. You know, situations where you expect a bad corsi?
What could be at play here? You planted your flag 2 years ago when he was out of his element playing with Rads and Patch and now refuse to admit he has improved with experience? Couldn't be.
You said 19 first, now you are at 18, the actual number is 17:47. No need to make stuff up, The Google has all this info for free.
Not sure you get to be sarcastically smug when you call 17:47 3C minutes. How many minutes do you think are in a game?
Trade him while his value is still high and we arent saddled with a 6 million dollar 3rd line center.
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