Player Discussion Phillip Danault - Damn-oh ! Edition

[FrankMTL]

He's taken his game up another notch. If he can contribute about 50 points per year on a regular basis, I would be ecstatic. Signed to a great cap hit the next 2 years as well.

 

[Fixxer]

 

[Mrb1p]

Imagine the boner Bergevin had watching this video.

Used character 8 times in a 2 minutes video.

 

[cphabs]

Playoffs or not. Kid had a great campaign this year!

 

[Tyson]

Interesting tidbit- Danault had as many points as Jamie Benn.

 

[Tyson]

Playoffs or not. Kid had a great campaign this year!

Poor man’s Bergeron

 

[cphabs]

Poor man’s Bergeron

We are not “poor” anymore at center. Move him to wing to make room.

 

[Saku K]

Who says Danault brings nothing to the table ? There's a weird correlation here. Me wanting a better top 6 center to play with my elite RW and 2nd line LW doesn't = Danault being useless.

The problem is that Danault isn't good enough offensively, he doesn't cut it, Gallagher is for all intent and purpose carrying him, both offensively and defensively.
The other problem is that Danault is currently blocking both Kotkaniemi and Domi from more ice time, and obviously, better linemates. How do we go about that ? Danault is never going to be good enough to be a top 6 center, the other two NEED to be in order for us to be relevant in the NHL.
And lastly, there's the contract situation. Are you ready to pay Danault 6 millions a year ? Personally, I am not. This is what he's going to cost, this is going to be his value, but is it necessary with Poehling coming up ? Financially, a team should look to cycle ELC/RFA/UFA contracts to stay relevant and stay UNDER the cap.

There's just something about putting your eggs in the wrong basket, in this case, the wrong basket being Danault, Drouin, Petry.

Danault ranked 32nd at center in the entire league for even strenght points while competing against top opposition. Tatar hits a career high in points while Gallagher got a career-high in goals. Both players are shooters and got about 500 shots between them. It would be pretty difficult to score 25-30 let alone cracking 20 goals with those two players and 30 seconds on the power play per game. I do expect Danault to leave via FA at the end of his contract with the youngsters coming up if they develop accordingly but to say he doesn't do a very good job with the situation he has been given and leaches off his teammates I tend to disagree with that. It's not like there is a huge gap in points in between the three players. He is not currently blocking kotkaniemi from anything since KK hasn't earned anything yet. You really think because he has more raw talent he should be thrown right away against top opposition and he would be reliable? KK isn't ready yet! Danault can be counted on in critical situation such as key faceoffs, PK and battling physically against top opposition and be effective. That alone generates a lot of ice time and takes away a lot of pressure from the others lines. Let the kids develop instead of throwing them to the wolves and if injuries happens they'll get to move up the ranks and showcase what they can do or move Domi to LW. Danault may not have the raw skills of a second liner but I don't know how you can debate he hasn't done a solid job making his wingers produce, has been effective and he's probably our best defensive forward as well. I also disagree Gallagher's been carrying him defensively.

 

[Mrb1p]

Danault ranked 32th at center in the entire league for even strenght points while competing against top opposition. Tatar hits a career high in points while Gallagher got a career-high in goals. Both players are shooters and got about 500 shots between them. It would be pretty difficult to score 25-30 let alone cracking 20 goals with those two players and 30 seconds on the power play per game. I do expect Danault to leave via FA at the end of his contract with the youngsters coming up if they develop accordingly but to say he doesn't do a very good job with the situation he has been given and leaches off his teammates I tend to disagree with that. It's not like there is a huge gap in points in between the three players. He is not currently blocking kotkaniemi from anything since KK hasn't earned anything yet. You really think because he has more raw talent he should be thrown right away against top opposition and he would be reliable? KK isn't ready yet! Danault can be counted on in critical situation such as key faceoffs, PK and battling physically against top opposition and be effective. That alone generates a lot of ice time and takes away a lot of pressure from the others lines. Let the kids develop instead of throwing them to the wolves and if injuries happens they'll get to move up the ranks and showcase what they can do. Danault may not have the raw skills of a second liner but I don't know how you can debate he hasn't done a solid job making his wingers produce and has been effective and he's probably our best defensive forward as well. I also disagree Gallagher's been carrying him defensively.

Paragraphs, it might help to get your point across.

Danault leeches off Gallagher in the sense that he's not a 50 points player, he's a 30-40 guy that can't playmake and that cannot score goals on the level of a first line player, which is what he is used as.

Do you not wonder why Gallagher, in the highest scoring season since he's been in the league (And by a wide-margin, mind you.) has the smallest amount of assists in his career so far ? As a peaking hockey player ?

His career so far, measured by APG: 0.4, 0.3, 0.3, 0.28, 0.29, 0.27, 0.23

Bolded is this season. Now, bear with me, Gallagher has never had a good center. His best center is Plekanec from 14 to 17, and in the highest scoring season, where every player in the league (More or less.) has seen an increase of production of a few points, the league has seen an icrease of .2 goals scored since last year, the highest it's been since 2005, and the save percentage has dropped three points, the lowest its been since 08.

Not only is Danault benefiting from A) Ridiculous ice-time B) Gallagher (And to a lesser extent Tatar) but he's also benefitting from scoring being up the increase in scoring.

This is absolutely leeching off.

 

[ahmedou]

Shades Of DD

 

[Saku K]

Paragraphs, it might help to get your point across.

Danault leeches off Gallagher in the sense that he's not a 50 points player, he's a 30-40 guy that can't playmake and that cannot score goals on the level of a first line player, which is what he is used as.

Do you not wonder why Gallagher, in the highest scoring season since he's been in the league (And by a wide-margin, mind you.) has the smallest amount of assists in his career so far ? As a peaking hockey player ?

His career so far, measured by APG: 0.4, 0.3, 0.3, 0.28, 0.29, 0.27, 0.23

Bolded is this season. Now, bear with me, Gallagher has never had a good center. His best center is Plekanec from 14 to 17, and in the highest scoring season, where every player in the league (More or less.) has seen an increase of production of a few points, the league has seen an icrease of .2 goals scored since last year, the highest it's been since 2005, and the save percentage has dropped three points, the lowest its been since 08.

Not only is Danault benefiting from A) Ridiculous ice-time B) Gallagher (And to a lesser extent Tatar) but he's also benefitting from scoring being up the increase in scoring.

This is absolutely leeching off.

So you did not pick Tatar as well with your APG arguement why? He has a career high in assists while also being a shooter and played with danault as well. I guess he's leaching off gallagher too? Gallagher got a significant increase in shots and played on an anemic PP which often he wasn't even on the first wave. If we compare with last year, his assists production dropped from 9 to 3 this year. There are some of your assists and probably some more goals as well. His utilization and the powerplay production of gallagher has nothing to do with Danault. I don't know why we are even debating gallagher's assists total he's mainly a shooter who is there to put the puck in the net. I guess it isn't significant he got a career high in goals with a significant decrease in powerplay production. That must be the league's scoring generally increasing fault's.

Nobody is saying Danault's a premium talented scoring center here but he does the job well and has been 32nd in scoring 5-5 at center being surrounded by players who are mostly more talented than him and are playing with good players too, so to me that is significant while outplaying top opposition and his line putting the puck in the opponent's net rather than it finds itself in ours.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Paragraphs, it might help to get your point across.

Danault leeches off Gallagher in the sense that he's not a 50 points player, he's a 30-40 guy that can't playmake and that cannot score goals on the level of a first line player, which is what he is used as.

Do you not wonder why Gallagher, in the highest scoring season since he's been in the league (And by a wide-margin, mind you.) has the smallest amount of assists in his career so far ? As a peaking hockey player ?

His career so far, measured by APG: 0.4, 0.3, 0.3, 0.28, 0.29, 0.27, 0.23

Bolded is this season. Now, bear with me, Gallagher has never had a good center. His best center is Plekanec from 14 to 17, and in the highest scoring season, where every player in the league (More or less.) has seen an increase of production of a few points, the league has seen an icrease of .2 goals scored since last year, the highest it's been since 2005, and the save percentage has dropped three points, the lowest its been since 08.

Not only is Danault benefiting from A) Ridiculous ice-time B) Gallagher (And to a lesser extent Tatar) but he's also benefitting from scoring being up the increase in scoring.

This is absolutely leeching off.

I'd take Danault over 14-17 Pleks any day of the week. Somewhere around 2011 or so Pleks completely forgot how to pass. Danault has his faults but Pleks became an offensive black hole for the last few years. He'd still get his 20 goals, he'd still shut down other teams top lines but he just could not creat offence.

I'm totally aware of your Danault criticisms and I'm even fairly amenable to them (I do think you exaggerate) but even with Danault's warts, I'd still take him over Pleks. So done with his perimeter play especially in the playoffs and his growing tunnel vision just made him one of my least favourite players. Danault works his bag off and he's great along the boards. I swear he's a better passer than 14-17 Pleks by default because I swear Pleks never even attempted a pass in that time.

I just hope KK can be that top 6 C soon enough so you can sit back and enjoy what Danault brings on a 3rd line or maybe even the wing.

 

[Mrb1p]

So you did not pick Tatar as well with your APG arguement why? He has a career high in assists while also being a shooter and played with danault as well. I guess he's leaching off gallagher too? Gallagher got a significant increase in shots and played on an anemic PP which often he wasn't even on the first wave. If we compare with last year, his assists production dropped from 9 to 3 this year. There are some of your assists and probably some more goals as well. His utilization and the powerplay production of gallagher has nothing to do with Danault. I don't know why we are even debating gallagher's assists total he's mainly a shooter who is there to put the puck in the net. I guess it isn't significant he got a career high in goals with a significant decrease in powerplay production. That must be the league's scoring generally increasing fault's.

Nobody is saying Danault's a premium talented scoring center here but he does the job well and has been 32nd in scoring 5-5 at center being surrounded by players who are mostly more talented than him and are playing with good players too, so to me that is significant while outplaying top opposition and his line putting the puck in the opponent's net rather than it finds itself in ours.

Wrong. He did not get an increase in shots, he's been at this level for two years now.

Also fair point about Tatar, he did get a career year in assists, but his A1 are five points ahead of his career best, around 10 over his career averages. That means there's someone on his line that wasn't really involved in the play, I'll let you guess who that is.

It's not signifiant, because he could've had way more, the team could've produced way more offense, and thats not even getting into the PP, thats a whole other debate. Also, it's not true that Gallagher is mainly a goalscorer, he's pretty much assists for goal in his career.

I know that nobody is saying Danault is a premium talent, because that's exactly the problem. We're so overinfatuated by our grinders that we now use them with the teams two best wingers and are in awe when they do good. Literally every player in the league would have career years playing with (career years) Gally and Tatar. Step up the god damn standard. We have Domi and Kotkaniemi who are pretty much near the top of the league in talent, there's no reasons to use Danault over them. Danault can take the tough matchups with lesser wingers.

 

[Mrb1p]

I'd take Danault over 14-17 Pleks any day of the week. Somewhere around 2011 or so Pleks completely forgot how to pass. Danault has his faults but Pleks became an offensive black hole for the last few years. He'd still get his 20 goals, he'd still shut down other teams top lines but he just could not creat offence.

I'm totally aware of your Danault criticisms and I'm even fairly amenable to them (I do think you exaggerate) but even with Danault's warts, I'd still take him over Pleks. So done with his perimeter play especially in the playoffs and his growing tunnel vision just made him one of my least favourite players. Danault works his bag off and he's great along the boards. I swear he's a better passer than 14-17 Pleks by default because I swear Pleks never even attempted a pass in that time.

I just hope KK can be that top 6 C soon enough so you can sit back and enjoy what Danault brings on a 3rd line or maybe even the wing.

I mean, I'd much rather a 2C that can put up at least 20 goals than a single digit one, but yeah, both are not super good offenisvely... One thing is for sure, Plekanec was much smarter in his puck management, and thats probably my biggest pet peeve concerning Dananult, the amount of time he'll directly be responsible for offensive zone turnovers is crazy. Passes between 3 defenders, passes in the feet of his wingers, running straight into defenders, mismanaging his cycle and getting it intercepted on the board... This kills offense. You basically just gained the zone, and you have to gain the puck again because Dunno gave it over. It's just not excusable as a top 6 center playing with the two best wingers on the team. You need to bring more.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I mean, I'd much rather a 2C that can put up at least 20 goals than a single digit one, but yeah, both are not super good offenisvely... One thing is for sure, Plekanec was much smarter in his puck management, and thats probably my biggest pet peeve concerning Dananult, the amount of time he'll directly be responsible for offensive zone turnovers is crazy. Passes between 3 defenders, passes in the feet of his wingers, running straight into defenders, mismanaging his cycle and getting it intercepted on the board... This kills offense. You basically just gained the zone, and you have to gain the puck again because Dunno gave it over. It's just not excusable as a top 6 center playing with the two best wingers on the team. You need to bring more.

yeah I think Danault made more bad plays than Pleks but he still may have created more with his work ethic and his willingness to use the body. I really think that if you put Pleks between patches and Rads 2 years ago, and Tatar and Gally this year that those lines wouldn't have been as good. Not by a huge degree mind you. I feel like the good outweighs the bad with Danault. Pleks became this island of a player it seemed like in those last few years. Didn't use his linemates at all. I remember he used to have a great saucer pass which for some inexplicably reason left his arsenal those last years. Very frustrating.

Danault should not be a top 6 C but the thing is he's done a damn fine impersonation of one for a good while now and that's not his fault. In a way Pleks was the same in that regard except young Pleks definitely had legit top 6 upside but he still kind of overachieved in a sense not unlike Danault. It's kind of the curse of overachieving/playing above your station when it comes to fan estimation. Same with Mete. I'm a broken record about it but had he stayed in junior last year and played in Laval this year, everyone would be excited about him. So what does he do? He does better than that and now people think he's barely an NHLer. Very weird paradox.

 

[Mrb1p]

yeah I think Danault made more bad plays than Pleks but he still may have created more with his work ethic and his willingness to use the body. I really think that if you put Pleks between patches and Rads 2 years ago, and Tatar and Gally this year that those lines wouldn't have been as good. Not by a huge degree mind you. I feel like the good outweighs the bad with Danault. Pleks became this island of a player it seemed like in those last few years. Didn't use his linemates at all. I remember he used to have a great saucer pass which for some inexplicably reason left his arsenal those last years. Very frustrating.

Danault should not be a top 6 C but the thing is he's done a damn fine impersonation of one for a good while now and that's not his fault. In a way Pleks was the same in that regard except young Pleks definitely had legit top 6 upside but he still kind of overachieved in a sense not unlike Danault. It's kind of the curse of overachieving/playing above your station when it comes to fan estimation. Same with Mete. I'm a broken record about it but had he stayed in junior last year and played in Laval this year, everyone would be excited about him. So what does he do? He does better than that and now people think he's barely an NHLer. Very weird paradox.

Mete drives offense like no one else on the team though, if I saw this from Danault, I'd love him, like I love Mete.

Also I disagree again about the Danault being a good top 6C thing, he's just flat out bad and a ridiculous excuse for a top 6 center. Your center should be the best player on his line on most nights, he's literally never that. Your top 6 center should be able to best his counterpart... There's not a team in the league against which he can do that.

 

[ryan callahan]

Gallagher is a puck hog who likes to shoot the puck and go to the dirty areas. Danault likes to make players chase him to open up the play for his teammates. Tatar brings that element of skill that makes the line a very good combo for a 2nd line that was good on both sides of the puck. It's not a surprise all three got career seasons at the same time because they fit each other so well.

 

[ZUKI]

Definitely, if Danault's overall contributions were as detrimental as many think there is no way they'd be one of the better lines in the league. He's not pretty, but he's steady and effective.

It isn't " as many think " ; it's " as one fan thinks " but he repeats his comment so much time that you think that they are many

 

[Saku K]

Wrong. He did not get an increase in shots, he's been at this level for two years now.

Also fair point about Tatar, he did get a career year in assists, but his A1 are five points ahead of his career best, around 10 over his career averages. That means there's someone on his line that wasn't really involved in the play, I'll let you guess who that is.

It's not signifiant, because he could've had way more, the team could've produced way more offense, and thats not even getting into the PP, thats a whole other debate. Also, it's not true that Gallagher is mainly a goalscorer, he's pretty much assists for goal in his career.

I know that nobody is saying Danault is a premium talent, because that's exactly the problem. We're so overinfatuated by our grinders that we now use them with the teams two best wingers and are in awe when they do good. Literally every player in the league would have career years playing with (career years) Gally and Tatar. Step up the god damn standard. We have Domi and Kotkaniemi who are pretty much near the top of the league in talent, there's no reasons to use Danault over them. Danault can take the tough matchups with lesser wingers.

He did increase his shot output from 278 to 302 to me that's an increase. If Gallagher is to you as good a playmaker than a shooter/goal scorer that is your opinion which I disagree on.

I don't know how the team could've produced 'way more offense' when I look at the roster I see the results I feel we over-achieved by being top-5 in GF 5-on-5. The top-4 being toronto, tampa bay washington and san jose we are nowhere close to them in term of talent. The dreadful powerplay is what needs to be fixed in a hurry. I am not in awe of Danault. I am just saying the results he got for the role he was put in he did a great job at it.

I will be the first to tell you he is a stop-gas 2nd C because he completes skilled players well and a great third line C on a contending team but his results this year speak for themselves. Kotkaniemi will be top-6 in the near future, he did show his talents but I don't see how he could have done a much better job than Danault off his first season. Hopefully KK will develop enough to pass danault on the depth chart this year or move domi to the LW, he is already on the first PP so it is only a matter of time.

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

Danault is not a 1C moving forward but can play the role if needed. I’m not hating on Danault but I view him as more of 3A on a championship team. He is very valuable to us. I don’t get the hate.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Mete drives offense like no one else on the team though, if I saw this from Danault, I'd love him, like I love Mete.

Also I disagree again about the Danault being a good top 6C thing, he's just flat out bad and a ridiculous excuse for a top 6 center. Your center should be the best player on his line on most nights, he's literally never that. Your top 6 center should be able to best his counterpart... There's not a team in the league against which he can do that.

How do you manage to be so consistent at being wrong. Every single post.......Calling Danault "flat out bad" leaves you with no credibility, you need to seriously reevaluate how you watch and interpret the game. Danault is an important player and hopefully MB locks him up to a reasonable extension soon.

 

[ECWHSWI]

How do you manage to be so consistent at being wrong. Every single post.......Calling Danault "flat out bad" leaves you with no credibility, you need to seriously reevaluate how you watch and interpret the game. Danault is an important player and hopefully MB locks him up to a reasonable extension soon.

if the kid is smart, he doesnt sign under 5M per - I do get the feeling Danault will try to sign for as much as he can - no discount... I mean, 50+ points, facingt the best forwards in the league night in - night out...

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Delete

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

In the past 5 seasons there have been 5, 2nd line center's with similar production as Danault to play in the finals and one 1st line center.

Brad Richards - Chi, NY (37,57)
Mike Fisher - Nash (42)
Eric Haula -Vegas (55)
Jeff Carter - LA (50)
Derek Stepan NYR (57)

So try not to let the facts get in the way of your argument.

The fact is that his line was out playing and out scoring other team's top lines all season long. That is all that matters, but too many people here would be happy if he had another 25 points even at the cost of being a negative match up due to taking defensive risks. I will take a 2-1 win over a 6-5 loss every single time..

 

[Walrus26]

Also I disagree again about the Danault being a good top 6C thing, he's just flat out bad and a ridiculous excuse for a top 6 center. Your center should be the best player on his line on most nights, he's literally never that. Your top 6 center should be able to best his counterpart... There's not a team in the league against which he can do that.

Hilarious. The Danault line has been the go-to shutdown line all season and the sexy stats like Corsi - as well as the mundane stats - illustrate what a load of dingo's kidneys you're talking here.

Saying that Danault isn't a top centre is one thing (and you'd be right). Saying he's flat out bad and a ridiculous excuse for a top 6 centre - in defiance of ALL the evidence this season - is either attention seeking, delusional or simply trolling.