OT: Phillies: We Might Just Get A Little Stupid Spending: Offseason Part One

[Hiesenberg]

They’re one team you can never rule anything out.

I agree, and Machado is kind of looking like a lemming for them. I think he's just sitting and hoping that the Yankees come a calling.

 

[Hiesenberg]

So does Nightengale have sources or is he talking out of his ass

I think Nightengale is a Boras shill. So I can buy him burning Lazano's client with false information, or being fed false information and running with it.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

It's not nearly as easy as you might think to become a solid MLB player, even as a top 10 pick. I believe the last time I saw the numbers run, Picks 6-10 gave you a ~35% chance to get a 1.5+ WAR player. 11-15 dropped it to ~30%.

I don't know, aside from the initial contract, I think it is easier to be an MLB regular than it is to be a star QB. We aren't talking about some guy hoping to make it, he was a first round pick. Now that doesn't guarantee anything of course but again I would bet money on him being able to have a long baseball career in any capacity than having a long football career as a starting QB. If he becomes a big time QB, ok he'll make more money than if he is a scrub MLBer. But if he becomes a even a marginally successful baseball player he's making more money with less of a toll on his body. The biggest difference, in my opinion is the star factor. A star QB is going to be much more famous than almost any baseball player on a national scale. That means advertisements, publicity, etc. The die have been cast though and we'll find out. I would imagine he'll be a hot commodity in this year's draft so we'll see.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I heard yesterday that Jeff Samardzija has made something like 90 million in his baseball career. They brought him up as an example of what Murray could make etc.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I don't know, aside from the initial contract, I think it is easier to be an MLB regular than it is to be a star QB. We aren't talking about some guy hoping to make it, he was a first round pick. Now that doesn't guarantee anything of course but again I would bet money on him being able to have a long baseball career in any capacity than having a long football career as a starting QB. If he becomes a big time QB, ok he'll make more money than if he is a scrub MLBer. But if he becomes a even a marginally successful baseball player he's making more money with less of a toll on his body. The biggest difference, in my opinion is the star factor. A star QB is going to be much more famous than almost any baseball player on a national scale. That means advertisements, publicity, etc. The die have been cast though and we'll find out. I would imagine he'll be a hot commodity in this year's draft so we'll see.

That's not an accurate scale in regard to NFL pay. Marginally competent QBs get paid too, often upfront at signing. Chase Daniel is over 30MM in compensation for his career while throwing 154 passes in 9 years.

I heard yesterday that Jeff Samardzija has made something like 90 million in his baseball career. They brought him up as an example of what Murray could make etc.

I would struggle to comp anyone to Murray that wasn't a QB because the payscale is so exponentially different. Samardzija also needed 8 MLB seasons to approach the career earnings of someone like Chase Daniel.

If Murray's a 1st rounder (not a lock), he's getting 3 years of NFL checks at bare minimum.

 

[XDevilBoiX]

All this report of wanting to leave room to sign Trout is dumb when they haven’t sign Harper/Machado yet. Can still come out empty handed and looking dumb.

 

[baudib1]

How much did Drew Henson make?

Edit: I suppose Henson wasn't good at either sport, which is sort of the risk you take when you're a prospect in baseball and football.

Brian Jordan had a heck of a career for a guy who didn't make the majors until he was 25 (and he was downright awful as a rookie, .207 with a .250 OBP). He ended up making $51M. He was a better baseball player than Deion Sanders.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

wonder what tebow will end up making after all is said and done.

 

[The Madrigal]

What happens first:

Flyers trade Wayne Simmonds
Harper or Machado sign somewhere

 

[JojoTheWhale]

How much did Drew Henson make?

Edit: I suppose Henson wasn't good at either sport, which is sort of the risk you take when you're a prospect in baseball and football.

Brian Jordan had a heck of a career for a guy who didn't make the majors until he was 25 (and he was downright awful as a rookie, .207 with a .250 OBP). He ended up making $51M. He was a better baseball player than Deion Sanders.

Henson is the guy I would call the closest prospect comp from a logical point of view, but he got 6/17 from the Yankees because the bonus pool wasn't a thing yet. He quit in favor of football after the 2003 season, so he didn't finish out his deal and made a total of ~5MM.

Henson signed in 2001, so for a point of reference, Mark Prior was the most expensive player in that year's draft -- he signed for 5/10.5, which was considered absurd. Henson's 6th year was for 6MM, so the contracts were pretty comparable, although Prior negotiated a higher bonus.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Henson ended up amounting to nothing in both sports but he was pretty hyped in both going into it before he ultimately ended up picking baseball. Even after he flamed out in baseball & turned back to football he gained back some hype for that too.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Henson ended up amounting to nothing in both sports but he was pretty hyped in both going into it before he ultimately ended up picking baseball. Even after he flamed out in baseball & turned back to football he gained back some hype for that too.

Yeah, it's pretty damn perfect actually. Henson was a very good but not top flight baseball prospect (BA had him 17th in the majors in 2001) and a potential 1st rounder in football, but probably not a 1OA type.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What happens first:

Flyers trade Wayne Simmonds
Harper or Machado sign somewhere

I'm going with latter. And it's in Philly.

 

[The Madrigal]

I'm going with latter. And it's in Philly.

Hope you're right.

 

[XDevilBoiX]

What happens first:

Flyers trade Wayne Simmonds
Harper or Machado sign somewhere

I would say Simmonds getting traded first unless Phillies offer Harper a record breaking contract.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hope you're right.

I'm not.

 

[baudib1]

Henson's undoing as a baseball player is he couldn't control the strike zone at all, he struck out 27% of his minor league at-bats. He had reasonable power.

This appears to be a pretty common problem for the two-sport guys. Bo Jackson was a notorious free swinger, even guys who didn't strike anyone out could strike out Bo. Deion and Jordan were much better at making contact, but neither one was a patient hitter. Controlling the strike zone and having patience at the plate is probably not a skill you can develop or maintain if you're not seeing thousands of pitches a year in your teens/early 20s.

 

[Chinatown88]

Sonny Gray close to being dealt per Heyman

 

[FLYguy3911]

Murray strikes out a lot too.

It is almost certainly a reps thing. You need so many game reps to be able to control the strike zone at a high level. Those guys have the power and speed to make up for it.

Not at their level in either sport, but I played against Matt Szczur and he had a sub 5% K-rate in college (albeit the old Big East). That was pretty impressive. He could fly but Nova didn’t even play him in CF. They stuck him in a corner!

 

[trostol]

Is Longoria not overly bright...not blaming who is really at fault

Evan Longoria doesn’t like free agency

 

[phlflyer1]

Is Longoria not overly bright...not blaming who is really at fault

Evan Longoria doesn’t like free agency

I'd say hes pretty out of touch saying stuff like why should fans care about the value of their teams free agency signings, its not their money.

Uh, Evan, who buys the tickets, pays the parking, buys the concessions, merchandise and fuels the TV contract ratings? What a dope.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don’t care either way but ultimately the team lasts longer than any player & that’s why fans will end up siding with teams whether directly or indirectly.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Fans care about the team's spending because they have finite resources and the allocation of them is important to winning

I absolutely hate when people make comments like "it's not your money who cares?"

 

[Hiesenberg]

MLB made 10 Billion dollars this season. The word finite might not be the best use here.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

MLB made 10 Billion dollars this season. The word finite might not be the best use here.

Well, we know teams are only going to spend around X amount, so for purposes of fans caring about contracts handed out, it is finite.