OT: Phillies: We Might Just Get A Little Stupid Spending: Offseason Part One

[Hiesenberg]

lol

 

[Jack Straw]

Why not trade for him now then? Sign Machado, trade Franco + Odubel + whatever it takes.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Why not trade for him now then? Sign Machado, trade Franco + Odubel + whatever it takes.

I don't think the Phillies have the ammo, if they do, it'll probably decimate the team.

 

[Chinatown88]

 

[Cody Webster]

I don't think the Phillies have the ammo, if they do, it'll probably decimate the team.

Well, if he isn't signing an extension youll lose him for nothing. Might as well get something for him

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He probably won’t get traded until his contract winds down enough & the Angels come to acceptance with 25 cents or whatever on the dollar in return. Like the same thing that happened with Machado.

 

[wankstifier]

Given the low market competition for Machado’s and Harper’s services, I seriously wonder how many teams would be interested in adding Trout. He’ll be looking for a contract that covers his age 29-35+ seasons.

Trout’s closest recent comparable is Pujols and his contract with the Angels through age 32-41 has been rough. Probably close to worst case scenario for Trout’s career trajectory, but still worth considering. Injuries and age can erode even world class talent very suddenly.

Who was the last hitter who had Hall of Fame production into his 30s with no suspected use of “performance enhancers”?

 

[Hiesenberg]

This posturing has me all nervous again. I feel like some team is just going to slide in and snag these guys

 

[baudib1]

Given the low market competition for Machado’s and Harper’s services, I seriously wonder how many teams would be interested in adding Trout. He’ll be looking for a contract that covers his age 29-35+ seasons.

Trout’s closest recent comparable is Pujols and his contract with the Angels through age 32-41 has been rough. Probably close to worst case scenario for Trout’s career trajectory, but still worth considering. Injuries and age can erode even world class talent very suddenly.

Who was the last hitter who had Hall of Fame production into his 30s with no suspected use of “performance enhancers”?

Other than the fact that they both put up MVP-caliber seasons every year of their career starting at their rookie seasons until Pujols' age 30 season, Trout and Pujols aren't truly comparable; Trout plays a more important defensive position and is a better athlete.

Trout is probably the closest historical match for Mickey Mantle. I don't really like the comparison because Mantle was a switch-hitter and had significantly more power. But most of Trout's seasons could be slid into Mantle's career and you wouldn't know the difference.

I think Trout at this point of his career is probably most similar to a 25-28-year-old "pre-roid" Bonds.

As to your question, it is perfectly normal for Hall of Fame-caliber players to be quite productive well into their 30s and even until age 40 or so. Not sure who you suspect of PED use but guys like Henderson, Murray, Winfield played into their 40s and were productive. Chipper Jones won a batting title at age 36 and was a good hitter at age 40. Mike Schmidt was Mike Schmidt until 37. Mays, Aaron, Williams had very long careers and were great just about until the end.

 

[Halladay]

Trout is the 2nd best player behind Bonds in the past 60 years. I think every team that could afford him will try to get him.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Trout is the 2nd best player behind Bonds in the past 60 years. I think every team that could afford him will try to get him.

Yeah, Trout is going to go to free agency and he is going to get paid an eye-popping amount. Our only hope is he really has visions of hometown hero stuff and the Phillies throw moneys at him. Otherwise it may be a highest bidder scenario and who knows how high that would go.

 

[wankstifier]

Other than the fact that they both put up MVP-caliber seasons every year of their career starting at their rookie seasons until Pujols' age 30 season, Trout and Pujols aren't truly comparable; Trout plays a more important defensive position and is a better athlete.

Trout is probably the closest historical match for Mickey Mantle. I don't really like the comparison because Mantle was a switch-hitter and had significantly more power. But most of Trout's seasons could be slid into Mantle's career and you wouldn't know the difference.

I think Trout at this point of his career is probably most similar to a 25-28-year-old "pre-roid" Bonds.

As to your question, it is perfectly normal for Hall of Fame-caliber players to be quite productive well into their 30s and even until age 40 or so. Not sure who you suspect of PED use but guys like Henderson, Murray, Winfield played into their 40s and were productive. Chipper Jones won a batting title at age 36 and was a good hitter at age 40. Mike Schmidt was Mike Schmidt until 37. Mays, Aaron, Williams had very long careers and were great just about until the end.

I was just looking at hitting ability because I’m assuming that Trout won’t stick at CF through his 29-35+ seasons.

Most of the guys that you mention weren’t consistently turning in HoF seasons past age 29/30. If you just sampled the latter halves of their careers, they’re not HoF quality. There are MVP seasons scattered in, but they’re not appearing on the field or producing nearly as consistently as in their pre age 30+ seasons. I don’t think I’m saying anything extraordinary here.

The reality in this cap era is that only a few teams will take on risk associated committing to several 30+ years for a player. Also, I’m all for going after Trout when he hits UFA, but Harper and Machado reasonably could have the more valuable contracts.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

This is an instructive point in the "But surely it will be different when Trout hits the market" debate.



The high end FA market comes down to what 5 or 6 teams need and think.

 

[The Madrigal]

175 over 7 for Machado? No wonder he hasn't signed yet. That is way less than he was expected to be offered.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Give him 10/250 and blow them out of the water.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Why the hell would you come in that far above the field? This is the point I was trying to make all along when reacting to potential numbers -- they only matter in relativity.

I do wonder if there's a point at which he/they look(s) for a higher money shorter deal that expires with a new CBA.

 

[Prongo]

Go 4 years for 160. Give him slightly less total but give him the ability to hit the open market at 30 again.

 

[XDevilBoiX]

Wonder what the Phillies offered last week. Maybe they leaking numbers to get Yankees involve again, he probably really wants to go there.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Dude, just sign the motherf***er.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Wonder what the Phillies offered last week. Maybe they leaking numbers to get Yankees involve again, he probably really wants to go there.

Yankees have like 9 infielders before Didi comes back. Sure you can trade, but damn that's a lot of work.

 

[XDevilBoiX]

Yankees have like 9 infielders before Didi comes back. Sure you can trade, but damn that's a lot of work.

They’re one team you can never rule anything out.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It's not nearly as easy as you might think to become a solid MLB player, even as a top 10 pick. I believe the last time I saw the numbers run, Picks 6-10 gave you a ~35% chance to get a 1.5+ WAR player. 11-15 dropped it to ~30%.

It’s pretty crazy with all the competitive balance rules & analytics in baseball that it’s not even really a given for a guy to take the money & run with baseball anymore.

In general I have no idea what a solution is here but it’s not good to be in the MLBPA’s position these days. Would loosening player control be healthy from a league standpoint? You’ve done a lot to end the days where the Yankees would flood every player market with their money.

 

[XDevilBoiX]

What a interesting day lol

 

[Hurricane28]

So does Nightengale have sources or is he talking out of his ass

 

[The Madrigal]

So does Nightengale have sources or is he talking out of his ass

He's a pawn is what he is.