OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): Offseason: Kelly vs. Roseman?

[Coppy]

Very surprised people have given up on Foles in two years. It smacks of not watching enough football.

That's what it smacks of? If the Eagles give up on Foles, the people who will have made that decision are people who watch more football in the course of a few years than most of us do in a lifetime.

I'm in the "give Foles another year" camp, but I think it was obvious from watching him that there were fundamental flaws in mechanics that are a little shocking from an NFL starting Quarterback.

 

[Halladay]

That's what it smacks of? If the Eagles give up on Foles, the people who will have made that decision are people who watch more football in the course of a few years than most of us do in a lifetime.

I'm in the "give Foles another year" camp, but I think it was obvious from watching him that there were fundamental flaws in mechanics that are a little shocking from an NFL starting Quarterback.

This may be true, but doesnt mean they are always correct. When you have players like EJ Manuel, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, and Blaine Gabbert going in the 1st round, you have to question how some people in the NFL have jobs.

 

[flyguy]

This may be true, but doesnt mean they are always correct. When you have players like EJ Manuel, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, and Blaine Gabbert going in the 1st round, you have to question how some people in the NFL have jobs.

Most of those QBs were also drafted by "dysfunctional" franchises when it comes to handling QBs in recent history. Tebow was a calculated risk by Denver IMO. It'd be interesting to see how some guys pan out if drafted by the right team. Also drafting QB is somewhat of a crapshoot, much like drafting goalie in hockey. The difference is in football it's that much more of an important position that teams will take the risk in the first round mainly due to pressure from the fans and front office to get the next franchise QB.

 

[flyguy]

Aw Dez Bryant is going to cry.

 

[flyguy]

Good riddance. I still hate pretty much all teams left aside from Denver and Indy, and I don't want to see Seattle win again with all the defensive holding they get away with, but Dallas out of the playoffs is relieving. I don't know what it is but seeing that team be successful just rubs me in an awful way.

 

[Sombastate]

I love that Dez dropped the ball on the biggest play of the season

 

[Prongo]

Go to sleep wigs!

 

[Halladay]

Im able to sleep at night, Dallas is out.

 

[Flyotes]

I like Andrew Luck. He plays some beautiful football.

 

[Sniped]

I like Andrew Luck. He plays some beautiful football.

Colts have Peyton Manning.

Colts lose Peyton Manning

Colts go through 1 bad year.

Colts get Andrew Luck and back in playoffs.

Franchise has been spoiled/lucky with elite QB's and I'm very envious.

 

[Chicken Chaser]

This may be true, but doesnt mean they are always correct. When you have players like EJ Manuel, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, and Blaine Gabbert going in the 1st round, you have to question how some people in the NFL have jobs.

Yup, same goes for the NHL, and all walks of life. There are qualified people, and then there are people who know the right people. Massive difference, and unfortunately not everyone get's their fair shake...

Surprised that every year a team in any sport hires a person who fails miserably as a coach/coordinator for one team yet continually keeps getting a job?

 

[Chicken Chaser]

Colts have Peyton Manning.

Colts lose Peyton Manning

Colts go through 1 bad year.

Colts get Andrew Luck and back in playoffs.

Franchise has been spoiled/lucky with elite QB's and I'm very envious.

Reason why I hate the Colts. They conveniently sucked at the best time possible for any team in the league. *yeah I know Peyton's neck*... But even if he wanted to play if he could, that team had no intentions of wanting to sniff a win that season.

 

[flyguy]

Reason why I hate the Colts. They conveniently sucked at the best time possible for any team in the league. *yeah I know Peyton's neck*... But even if he wanted to play if he could, that team had no intentions of wanting to sniff a win that season.

I'm sure if Peyton were healthy that year, they'd still have done a few wins better than they did. Maybe not playoffs, but certainly not dead last in the league. They were the division winners for the two years prior, and a lock for the playoffs for over 5 years before that.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'm sure if Peyton were healthy that year, they'd still have done a few wins better than they did. Maybe not playoffs, but certainly not dead last in the league. They were the division winners for the two years prior, and a lock for the playoffs for over 5 years before that.

Peyton has had 10 wins in every season but 2. They would have made the playoffs. Just goes to show how good he is.

 

[flyguy]

Peyton has had 10 wins in every season but 2. They would have made the playoffs. Just goes to show how good he is.

Yeah, he really is a second coach on the field. I even think he'd potentially be able to be a decent OC. I know usually elite players don't do well transitioning to coaching roles, but Peyton is one of the smartest players I've seen when it comes to running an offense. He just so happened to be gifted with the talent to become one of the greatest QBs in NFL history to boot. A

lthough, I doubt he goes for it, as being a coach is more mentally grueling than being a player in the NFL, which is probably why you rarely see any former NFL stars go for it.

Mike Singletary is one of the only recent former star NFL players I can think of who's tried his hand at head coaching, and it didn't work out too well for him.

 

[Coppy]

This may be true, but doesnt mean they are always correct. When you have players like EJ Manuel, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, and Blaine Gabbert going in the 1st round, you have to question how some people in the NFL have jobs.

Oh I agree. My point is that if the Eagles give up on Foles, it's not because they didn't watch him enough. The guy has played in 28 games. It's not like that is a small sample size.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

This may be true, but doesnt mean they are always correct. When you have players like EJ Manuel, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, and Blaine Gabbert going in the 1st round, you have to question how some people in the NFL have jobs.

Eh, not really. Even the best teams and the best scouts in the world blow it from time to time. It is easy to sit here and say, "I knew Manuel/Tebow/Ponder/Gabbert/whomeber was going to be a bust!" In reality, we as fans don't really know that. It is so so so so so so much easier to say a guy will bust and be right, than to say a guy will be successful and be right. The people making these decisions have watched footage, seen tape, spoken with, watched them in person, and done all their homework. Sometimes it doesn't translate to the NFL and you may not know it until it is too late. The same way Tom Brady slipped into the 7th round and so many big time players go even wholly undrafted. This is an incredibly inexact science and as fans it is even more inexact.

If Winston goes #1 and I say he is a bust the Bucs should not have taken him, and he turns out to bust, I don't really think that is me being "right." I've seen him play really only a handful of times, and during that time I wasn't really watching him to see if he was going to be an NFL quarterback...I was just watching the game. And the person who scouted, spoke with, etc. Winston, isn't some bumbling idiot who shouldn't have a job in the NFL. If it were easy to pick these guys, there'd be a lot more superstars chosen in the first round than there already are, and a lot less guys succeeding outside of the first couple rounds.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Oh I agree. My point is that if the Eagles give up on Foles, it's not because they didn't watch him enough. The guy has played in 28 games. It's not like that is a small sample size.

A portion of that was in their 2012 lost season. Not one of those games should be factored in.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

A portion of that was in their 2012 lost season. Not one of those games should be factored in.

I think the Eagles have seen enough to make a determination on Foles. Their moving on (if that is how it goes down) doesn't mean they don't think Foles is not an NFL QB, it just means they think they can get a better one. Foles is very clearly an average QB, at best. His high flying numbers from two years ago were not sustainable. His numbers this year are closer to where he really is. He's a guy that can run the offense and the team can win with, but the defense is going to have to be GREATLY improved. If the Eagles can get a better QB, be it through the draft or free agency, or trade or however Chip plans on doing it, the defense does not have to improve as much. I'm fine if they keep Foles another year, but lets not kid ourselves and think he is anything better than average. We can with an average QB but the defense will have to be improved a ton. I say **** it, roll the dice. Find a new QB and roll with it. If he blows it, ok move on, we likely were not winning a SB with Foles any time in the next 5-6 years anyway. If he doesn't, we all laud Chip for his genius.

 

[Coppy]

A portion of that was in their 2012 lost season. Not one of those games should be factored in.

You can take those games with a grain of salt, but you can't absolutely dismiss them. The offense was ranked 15th in the league, so it's not like they were totally inept. Most of their problems were on the defense.

Like I said, I'm not in favor of moving on from Foles unless a real opportunity comes up. Trading half a decade's worth of 1st round picks is not an opportunity...

BUT I don't buy the idea that Foles is still some kind of enigma, and there is still some mystery about how good he can be. We know what Foles is. He has a good arm, but his lack of mobility can be absolutely crushing.

A lot of his deficiencies can be covered up when he's got a receiver like DeSean that can stretch the field. That to me should be as much a priority for this team as the secondary this offseason.

 

[Hiesenberg]

You can take those games with a grain of salt, but you can't absolutely dismiss them. The offense was ranked 15th in the league, so it's not like they were totally inept. Most of their problems were on the defense.

Like I said, I'm not in favor of moving on from Foles unless a real opportunity comes up. Trading half a decade's worth of 1st round picks is not an opportunity...

BUT I don't buy the idea that Foles is still some kind of enigma, and there is still some mystery about how good he can be. We know what Foles is. He has a good arm, but his lack of mobility can be absolutely crushing.

A lot of his deficiencies can be covered up when he's got a receiver like DeSean that can stretch the field. That to me should be as much a priority for this team as the secondary this offseason.

By seasons end, he had no Djax and no McCoy. He couldn't throw the ball farther than 7 yards because everybody around him sucked. And the OL was terrible.

I think Foles can be a solid QB, but that's it. I'm still penciled in to being an unknown though. He had a ridiculous 2013 and a pretty bad 2014 and then got hurt.

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

I dont know how you can say Foles going forward is closer like to the 2014 version than the 2013 version. He's had 1 great year and 1 bad year under Chip. You can't just pick one and say that's what he is. How he does next season will ultimately tell us what he really is.

 

[Coppy]

By seasons end, he had no Djax and no McCoy. He couldn't throw the ball farther than 7 yards because everybody around him sucked. And the OL was terrible.

He had no DeSean this year, a patchwork OL that was just as bad, and Shady was practically invisible early on. Should we dismiss this year as well?

 

[Flyotes]

He had no DeSean this year, a patchwork OL that was just as bad, and Shady was practically invisible early on. Should we dismiss this year as well?

Yes, actually. Need a full or close to full year 3 with a more stable team to judge how Foles will normally be game in and game out.

Year two was certainly on the wrong side of the bell curve for Foles. I wouldn't expect every year to look that way from the evidence available. Football has a lot of working parts. Shady and the O-line really made sustaining drives difficult early, which didn't happen in Foles 27/2 season. Shady had a huge year, the zone read was working, and Foles was able to hit guys wide open when they began to stack the box. Once the ship got close to righted, Foles went down with a broken collarbone. If you can't establish the run, then it compromises Foles -- and he's still new to the pro scene and bound to make mistakes if the ground game is crap, which it was (I owned McCoy in fantasy football and he murdered me the majority of the year -- 2 point games, 1 point games). When the ground game struggled and Sanchez had to begin to pass, you saw Sanchez fall apart as well.

That being said: He has things he needs to fix. Decision making. Picking up the blitz. Throwing the ball away. He still needs to see more snaps in the NFL to improve. He's not Andrew Luck ready for the NFL, he's not Peyton Manning, where he can just throw almost every play without marginal ground game.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Foles isn't going to be an elite QB, but I still think he's good enough to win with. They just need to get a little more help that suits his style if they are going to go with him.

They shouldn't just ditch an above average caliber starter because he's not elite. You can do worse.