OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): Draft Month (First Round - April 29th)

[deadhead]

With this defense, if Hurts can get this team to 8-9 he deserves a fair shot at winning with this team once they finish rebuilding.

 

[FLYguy3911]

That wouldn't be ideal but they have the most draft capital going into next season to make a move up if they have to.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Worst case scenario is Jalen is just good enough for this team to not get a top 10 pick.

I don't think so. If he's good enough to win 6 games (which is probably right around 10-12th pick) on what we all know is a rebuilding team that should finish at the bottom of the division, I would say that is a pretty good scenario. Obviously you don't get the draft pick in the top ten at that point, but that is a good sign that Hurts can be a long-term solution assuming the wins come at least in part because of him and not in spite of him. I'd say the worst case scenario is Hurts sucks but the defense plays well enough for the team to not get a top ten pick. If Hurts is the QB moving forward because he can play and not out of necessity, that is a good thing even if it means we pick at 15 next year or something like that. I'd rather pick at 15 and know Hurts can play than win two games and get a top pick and hope he is Pat Mahomes and not Mitchell Trubisky.

That may be different if there is a sure-fire home run in the draft next year, but even then if Hurts can win 6+ games with this team don't we already have a QB at that point?

 

[Petr Svoboda Mullet]

Unrelated but has anyone seen McShay on tv recently? I’m assuming he gained weight but he doesn’t look fat, his face just looks larger

Roids. He looks awful.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Team Wins in 2021. Good times.

There’s no such thing as sure-fire QB. Not even Lawrence. Drafting is an exercise in futility.

Hurts is significantly less than 50-50 to have a career as good as Trubisky at this point. Everyone loves to dunk on him, but he was a below average starter for ~3.5 years and probably will be a good backup for many more. That’s a home run for a 2nd rounder. Sign me the hell up for Trubisky as a Hurts outcome.

These narratives are absolutely batshit. Good enough QB play. Can’t take a QB before you have the team. The best possible situation for a “good enough” QB just carpet bombed 1st rounders trying to get off of that treadmill. No one wants to be the Bears or the 2018-19 49ers for a reason.

If they didn’t think Fields was that guy, that’s fine. But if the goal isn’t elite QB play as your top priority by a mile, you’re lost.

 

[DancingPanther]

Team Wins in 2021. Good times.

There’s no such thing as sure-fire QB. Not even Lawrence. Drafting is an exercise in futility.

Hurts is significantly less than 50-50 to have a career as good as Trubisky at this point. Everyone loves to dunk on him, but he was a below average starter for ~3.5 years and probably will be a good backup for many more. That’s a home run for a 2nd rounder. Sign me the hell up for Trubisky as a Hurts outcome.

These narratives are absolutely batshit.

I fear the Howie delusion, in that Hurts is "the guy" through and through. If Hurts turns into a Trubisky career arc where he's given the reigns then gets them taken away and resorts to backing up and perhaps succeeding in that role, fine (jury is still out on Mitch there). But counting on Howie to take them away in due time makes me nervous. That's the bottom line for me. Giving Hurts the chance is sowing seeds of delusion in the garden of weeds that is Howie's brain.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I fear the Howie delusion, in that Hurts is "the guy" through and through. If Hurts turns into a Trubisky career arc where he's given the reigns then gets them taken away, fine. But counting on Howie to take them away in due time makes me nervous.

For all of his faults, I think this is the last one you need to fear. They're going to get a QB they absolutely love whether it's Hurts, Watson, Wilson, or a draft pick. Now I might not love that QB, but they will. They've consistently shown they understand the importance of the position.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hurts' poor throwing ability means it'll be very hard to let him keep the reigns for long.

 

[DancingPanther]

For all of his faults, I think this is the last one you need to fear. They're going to get a QB they absolutely love whether it's Hurts, Watson, Wilson, or a draft pick. Now I might not love that QB, but they will. They've consistently shown they understand the importance of the position.

But what if they love Hurts but he's just Trubisky D:

I shudder at his player evaluation. We're talking about the same guy who keeps bringing Peters back

I get what you're saying though. If Hurts ends up being just as good as Trubisky for example, or say one of the annual "rising QBs" that get taken in the top 10 or 5...that's a fine second round pick.

But it's just fine. It's probably not good enough to win unless they start hitting on picks on both sides of the ball

I don't have high expectations for Hurts but I hope he proves me wrong

 

[DancingPanther]

Hurts' poor throwing ability means it'll be very hard to let him keep the reigns for long.

Hagg's poor hockey IQ and skating means it'll be very hard to let him keep manning the blue line for long

We said in 2018

 

[JojoTheWhale]

But what if they love Hurts but he's just Trubisky D:

I shudder at his player evaluation. We're talking about the same guy who keeps bringing Peters back

I get what you're saying though. If Hurts ends up being just as good as Trubisky for example, or say one of the annual "rising QBs" that get taken in the top 10 or 5...that's a fine second round pick.

But it's just fine. It's probably not good enough to win unless they start hitting on picks on both sides of the ball

I don't have high expectations for Hurts but I hope he proves me wrong

I do understand your concern because Wentz was essentially an average starter when they extended him. It can be difficult to suss out whether they understood that or not.

The team was ready to compete in their minds, which is a very different mindset. That makes me hesitant to abandon hope. I see them spending a 2 on Hurts while they were trying to win immediately as saying they have to get the position right at all costs.

 

[deadhead]

Hurts' poor throwing ability means it'll be very hard to let him keep the reigns for long.

Except he's not a poor thrower, he has a nice touch. His stats were due to a scheme that had him throwing deep behind a makeshift OL.

The question with Hurts, like most college spread QBs, is can he learn to go through his progression and make quick decisions in the pocket, rather than one read and run. One promising sign was when he rolled away from pressure last year, he generally kept his eyes downfield instead of lowering his head and becoming a RB.

 

[DancingPanther]

I do understand your concern because Wentz was essentially an average starter when they extended him. It can be difficult to suss out whether they understood that or not.

The team was ready to compete in their minds, which is a very different mindset. That makes me hesitant to abandon hope. I see them spending a 2 on Hurts as saying they have to get the position right at all costs.

This is 100% a mindset I hadn't considered.

At least they're actively looking and (regardless of anyone's opinion of Wentz) saw something wasn't working and did something about it.

You might have seen me saying I hope Hurts absolutely stinks this year to kill the dream and force them to look for another QB. So I guess I sort of shared your mindset but in a different way. I can at least trust them to go out and find a different guy if the current guy isn't working, I suppose.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Except he's not a poor thrower, he has a nice touch. His stats were due to a scheme that had him throwing deep behind a makeshift OL.

The question with Hurts, like most college spread QBs, is can he learn to go through his progression and make quick decisions in the pocket, rather than one read and run. One promising sign was when he rolled away from pressure last year, he generally kept his eyes downfield instead of lowering his head and becoming a RB.

Except he is a limited thrower. He relies very heavily on his feet to run and if that's taken away with a spy his effectiveness all around plummets.

 

[renberg]

As a thrower, Hurts made a big step forward at OK than what he was at Alabama. It might well be that this new Eagles regime can raise his game some more. If so, he’ll be a decent QB at the NFL.

 

[deadhead]

Except he is a limited thrower. He relies very heavily on his feet to run and if that's taken away with a spy his effectiveness all around plummets.

How is he limited? He can make all the throws that matter, in games QBs rarely throw the ball 40 yards, in fact, most throws (85-90%) are within 20 yards of the LOS. Throwing a deep out across your body is impressive, but is basically a useless skill in NFL games.

The issue with Hurts is mental, not arm strength. He was in systems in college that were basically one read and run, similar to McNabb and many other college QBs. He doesn't have the gun of the top prospects, but you only need a gun if you can't read NFL defenses and have to see your receivers open (Vick).

 

[Beef Invictus]

How is he limited? He can make all the throws that matter, in games QBs rarely throw the ball 40 yards, in fact, most throws (85-90%) are within 20 yards of the LOS. Throwing a deep out across your body is impressive, but is basically a useless skill in NFL games.

The issue with Hurts is mental, not arm strength. He was in systems in college that were basically one read and run, similar to McNabb and many other college QBs. He doesn't have the gun of the top prospects, but you only need a gun if you can't read NFL defenses and have to see your receivers open (Vick).

The mental aspect of recognizing and reading plays is a really, really important part of throwing in the NFL. I include that in rating one's "arm." The brain controlling the arm is a factor.

Haskins has a big arm and a dumb brain, for example. Not a good combination.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Team Wins in 2021. Good times.

There’s no such thing as sure-fire QB. Not even Lawrence. Drafting is an exercise in futility.

Hurts is significantly less than 50-50 to have a career as good as Trubisky at this point. Everyone loves to dunk on him, but he was a below average starter for ~3.5 years and probably will be a good backup for many more. That’s a home run for a 2nd rounder. Sign me the hell up for Trubisky as a Hurts outcome.

These narratives are absolutely batshit. Good enough QB play. Can’t take a QB before you have the team. The best possible situation for a “good enough” QB just carpet bombed 1st rounders trying to get off of that treadmill. No one wants to be the Bears or the 2018-19 49ers for a reason.

If they didn’t think Fields was that guy, that’s fine. But if the goal isn’t elite QB play as your top priority by a mile, you’re lost.

That's obviously the goal of every franchise every year. But you don't draft a QB every year because you don't get elite QB play from whomever is on your team last year. If Hurts wins 6-8 games we shouldn't draft a QB or move up to draft a QB. If he sucks or there is a guy you are sure is going to give you that elite level play, then yeah draft a QB in the first round. But what do you do in two years if that guy isn't giving you elite QB play? Just keep drafting QBs high until you get one? Of course not. Do you keep tanking in search of that QB? Of course not. When you find a QB you can win with, you stick with him.

 

[deadhead]

The mental aspect of recognizing and reading plays is a really, really important part of throwing in the NFL. I include that in rating one's "arm." The brain controlling the arm is a factor.

Haskins has a big arm and a dumb brain, for example. Not a good combination.

We don't know how smart Hurts is, he made a big jump at Oklahoma, coming in as a transfer, whereas Murray and Mayfield lite it up after a couple years learning the scheme. He's got an off the wall work ethic, so if it can be done, he'll do it.

Sometimes you just have to wait and see.

 

[Phillyfan28]

Roids. He looks awful.

Are we speculating or is that quasi-confirmed? Agreed though, he may need an extra 1/4” in his collars now...

 

[deadhead]

Team Wins in 2021. Good times.

There’s no such thing as sure-fire QB. Not even Lawrence. Drafting is an exercise in futility.

Hurts is significantly less than 50-50 to have a career as good as Trubisky at this point. Everyone loves to dunk on him, but he was a below average starter for ~3.5 years and probably will be a good backup for many more. That’s a home run for a 2nd rounder. Sign me the hell up for Trubisky as a Hurts outcome.

These narratives are absolutely batshit. Good enough QB play. Can’t take a QB before you have the team. The best possible situation for a “good enough” QB just carpet bombed 1st rounders trying to get off of that treadmill. No one wants to be the Bears or the 2018-19 49ers for a reason.

If they didn’t think Fields was that guy, that’s fine. But if the goal isn’t elite QB play as your top priority by a mile, you’re lost.

You know you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, "no such thing as a sure-fire QB but you need to get an elite QB."
Well, if you spend a lot of assets on trying to get an elite QB and whiff, you'll wander in the wilderness for a long time - and yes, having a solid team in place improves the odds of hitting on a QB.
In the end, landing the right QB is as much luck as skill, but building a team that can win with a good QB is mostly skill.

So build the team, then go through QBs until you hit on one, but don't mortgage the future on any one QB unless you got one of those LOTR crystal balls.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You know you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, "no such thing as a sure-fire QB but you need to get an elite QB."
Well, if you spend a lot of assets on trying to get an elite QB and whiff, you'll wander in the wilderness for a long time - and yes, having a solid team in place improves the odds of hitting on a QB.
In the end, landing the right QB is as much luck as skill, but building a team that can win with a good QB is mostly skill.

So build the team, then go through QBs until you hit on one, but don't mortgage the future on any one QB unless you got one of those LOTR crystal balls.

Nothing I've said is inconsistent. If you have someone you believe can be a consistent top 5ish QB, great. If not and one is available to you, you get one. That is the same thing I've said since Hurts became the most important topic.

Yes, having talent around them is good. Surrounding them with talent is much easier than finding the QB. That's the whole point. It's not that they were picking at 6/12/10 and if they didn't draft a QB, it's wrong. The only right process is this:

1. Do we believe Hurts has a reasonable shot to be that? If no, proceed to step 2.
2. Which QBs can we get via trade/draft/both? Do we believe them to be that and do they fit our timeline? If so, get one of them.
3. Every other option.

Player evaluations are separate. If they only would have taken Lawrence or just Lawrence and your favorite of the rest, I'm more than fine with that. This is just a philosophical discussion.

Notice I said think. Not know. No one including me knows what any draft pick is, be it Lawrence or Luck. The order you acquire them doesn't matter. Should you be the Bengals and put Burrows behind that OL last year? Of course not. There's a massive difference between building the rest of the team first and that. It only grows as QBs get pushed up draft boards year after year.

I can only say so many times that's my process. But still we get, "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO JUST DRAFT A QB EVERY YEAR????"

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Tampa won the Super Bowl, so that's the trendy plan. The Bills just built Josh Allen from the ground up to be a top 3 QB this year and that's impossible. Just f***ing brilliance. Jesus.

 

[iceman42]

If Hurts sucks, I'm 50/50 on that as I still have visions of Alabama days, then we will be picking in the top 10 again, added to that the Miami pick and possibly the Indy pick. 2-3 1st round picks in what is supposed to be one of the deepest drafts in years. So if this year is a wash then they should have some ability to get a QB but still address other positions with some decent talent without feeling like it's a lost year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nothing I've said is inconsistent. If you have someone you believe can be a consistent top 5ish QB, great. If not and one is available to you, you get one. That is the same thing I've said since Hurts became the most important topic.

Yes, having talent around them is good. Surrounding them with talent is much easier than finding the QB. That's the whole point. It's not that they were picking at 6/12/10 and if they didn't draft a QB, it's wrong. The only right process is this:

1. Do we believe Hurts has a reasonable shot to be that? If no, proceed to step 2.
2. Which QBs can we get via trade/draft/both? Do we believe them to be that and do they fit our timeline? If so, get one of them.
3. Every other option.

Player evaluations are separate. If they only would have taken Lawrence or just Lawrence and your favorite of the rest, I'm more than fine with that. This is just a philosophical discussion.

Notice I said think. Not know. No one including me knows what any draft pick is, be it Lawrence or Luck. The order you acquire them doesn't matter. Should you be the Bengals and put Burrows behind that OL last year? Of course not. There's a massive difference between building the rest of the team first and that. It only grows as QBs get pushed up draft boards year after year.

I can only say so many times that's my process. But still we get, "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO JUST DRAFT A QB EVERY YEAR????"

For all we know, Lawrence (who is supposed to be as safe a pick as it gets) will start immediately, not be ready, get overwhelmed, and learn how to survive and tread water instead of really thrive and dominate play. Then he just plateaus for years instead of becoming the dominant star many expect.

QBs are hard. First round QBs are even harder because of the situation they're gonna be in is very sink-or-swim and can sabotage them, as @Striiker would say. Especially since they are on those teams presumably because those teams are missing a hell of a lot more than a QB.