Phil Kessel ranks 43rd on TSN's Top 50 NHL players

[Warden of the North]

Neal is waaaaay too high. Hes a by product of Malkin.

Kessel creates his own offense

 

[Felstead]

IMO, but Krejci below Lucic is another puzzling ranking.

Lucic above Kessel is a PUZZLING rating.

This list, is this some kind of sick joke or something? I put money on that fact that Phil Kessel is a top 20 player in THIS league day in and day out.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Yeah, this was easily my biggest gripe of the list.

That, and having Carey Price as the 5th best goalie in the league, which is a joke.

I hate Neal over Kessel more than Lucic over Kessel, at least Lucic is an incongruent player.

 

[Pierre Gotye]

Claude Giroux is ridiculously over-rated.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Claude Giroux is ridiculously over-rated.

Any player who can put up 93 points, and outscore the next player on his team by 25 points, is probably not overrated, let alone ridiculously so.

 

[Mess]

Since this is based on the actual consolidated opinions of NHL GMs and coaches and Nonis peers in the industry, hopefully our GM can use this to his advantage to get Kessel resigned to a more cap friendly contract as a result.

If Kessel is considered in the 40-50 range of NHL players, hopefully his next salary will reflect that, as opposed to being among the highest paid.

Among coaches and GMs Kessel is considered the 7th best RW in the game a far cry from a top 10 paid player.

 

[pspot]

Again, here are the results of the HTFML Fantasy Draft
Leafs Fans, Drafting Players to Build a Team
Kessel went 43

Its not a bad thing

Round 1:

1. Toronto Maple Leafs - Sidney Crosby
2. Mighty Ducks - Evgeni Malkin
3. Detroit Red Wings (via CGS) - Steven Stamkos
4. Los Angeles Kings (via PHI) - Pavel Datsyuk
5. California Golden Seals (via DET) - Johnathan Toews
6. Boston Bruins - John Tavares
7. San Jose Sharks - Anze Kopitar
8. Pittsburgh Penguins - Ryan Getzlaf
9. Quebec Nordiques - Henrik Lundqvist
10. New Jersey Devils (via WPG) - Claude Giroux
11. Hartford Whalers - Patrick Kane
12. Chicago Blackhawks - Patrice Bergeron
13. Winnipeg Jets (via NJ) - Eric Staal
14. Calgary Flames - Erik Karlsson
15. California Golden Seals (via WSH, via FLA) - Alexander Ovechkin
16. Dallas Stars - Ilya Kovalchuk
17. Carolina Hurricanes - Jason Spezza
18. Buffalo Sabres - Zdeno Chara
19. New York Islanders - Shea Weber
20. Minnesota Wild (via FLA, via WSH) - Ryan Suter
21. Calgary Flames (via NYR) - Jonathan Quick
22. Los Angeles Kings (via LA, via PHI, via CGS) - Duncan Keith
23. Washington Capitals (via MIN) - Henrik Zetterberg
24. Nashville Predators - Pekka Rinne

Round 2:

25. Nashville Predators - Henrik Sedin
26. Washington Capitals (via MIN) - Alex Pietrangelo
27. California Golden Seals (via LA) - Tuukka Rask
28. Buffalo Sabres (via NYR) - Nick Backstrom
29. Minnesota Wild (via FLA, via WSH) - Drew Doughty
30. New York Islanders - Joe Thornton
31. Buffalo Sabres - Zach Parise
32. Carolina Hurricanes - Kris Letang
33. Dallas Stars - PK Subban
34. Florida Panthers (via WSH) - Oliver Ekman-Larsson
35. New York Islanders (via CGY, via NYR) - Kari Lehtonen
36. Winnipeg Jets (via NJ) - Carey Price
37. Chicago Blackhawks - Martin St. Louis
38. Hartford Whalers - Mike Richards
39. New Jersey Devils (via WPG) - Rick Nash
40. Quebec Nordiques - Brent Seabrook
41. Pittsburgh Penguins - Taylor Hall
42. San Jose Sharks - Corey Perry
43. Boston Bruins - Phil Kessel
44. Detroit Red Wings - Keith Yandle
45. Philadelphia Flyers - Mikko Koivu
46. Florida Panthers (via CGS) - David Krejci
47. Mighty Ducks - Niklas Kronwall
48. Toronto Maple Leafs - James Neal

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Again, here are the results of the HTFML Fantasy Draft
Leafs Fans, Drafting Players to Build a Team
Kessel went 43

Its not a bad thing

Round 1:

1. Toronto Maple Leafs - Sidney Crosby
2. Mighty Ducks - Evgeni Malkin
3. Detroit Red Wings (via CGS) - Steven Stamkos
4. Los Angeles Kings (via PHI) - Pavel Datsyuk
5. California Golden Seals (via DET) - Johnathan Toews
6. Boston Bruins - John Tavares
7. San Jose Sharks - Anze Kopitar
8. Pittsburgh Penguins - Ryan Getzlaf
9. Quebec Nordiques - Henrik Lundqvist
10. New Jersey Devils (via WPG) - Claude Giroux
11. Hartford Whalers - Patrick Kane
12. Chicago Blackhawks - Patrice Bergeron
13. Winnipeg Jets (via NJ) - Eric Staal
14. Calgary Flames - Erik Karlsson
15. California Golden Seals (via WSH, via FLA) - Alexander Ovechkin
16. Dallas Stars - Ilya Kovalchuk
17. Carolina Hurricanes - Jason Spezza
18. Buffalo Sabres - Zdeno Chara
19. New York Islanders - Shea Weber
20. Minnesota Wild (via FLA, via WSH) - Ryan Suter
21. Calgary Flames (via NYR) - Jonathan Quick
22. Los Angeles Kings (via LA, via PHI, via CGS) - Duncan Keith
23. Washington Capitals (via MIN) - Henrik Zetterberg
24. Nashville Predators - Pekka Rinne

Round 2:

25. Nashville Predators - Henrik Sedin
26. Washington Capitals (via MIN) - Alex Pietrangelo
27. California Golden Seals (via LA) - Tuukka Rask
28. Buffalo Sabres (via NYR) - Nick Backstrom
29. Minnesota Wild (via FLA, via WSH) - Drew Doughty
30. New York Islanders - Joe Thornton
31. Buffalo Sabres - Zach Parise
32. Carolina Hurricanes - Kris Letang
33. Dallas Stars - PK Subban
34. Florida Panthers (via WSH) - Oliver Ekman-Larsson
35. New York Islanders (via CGY, via NYR) - Kari Lehtonen
36. Winnipeg Jets (via NJ) - Carey Price
37. Chicago Blackhawks - Martin St. Louis
38. Hartford Whalers - Mike Richards
39. New Jersey Devils (via WPG) - Rick Nash
40. Quebec Nordiques - Brent Seabrook
41. Pittsburgh Penguins - Taylor Hall
42. San Jose Sharks - Corey Perry
43. Boston Bruins - Phil Kessel
44. Detroit Red Wings - Keith Yandle
45. Philadelphia Flyers - Mikko Koivu
46. Florida Panthers (via CGS) - David Krejci
47. Mighty Ducks - Niklas Kronwall
48. Toronto Maple Leafs - James Neal

He dropped mainly because of the categories/judging.

 

[pspot]

He dropped mainly because of the categories/judging.

which were what?

 

[Brock Radunske]

Phil Kessel is better then PK Subban, Eric Staal, Rick Nash, Logan Couture, etc and all are ahead of them.

List = Joke

I agree with Kessel being better than Couture/Subban/Nash (60% name value) but honestly, E. Staal is a beast. He has been producing consistantly since hes been in the league and for long stretches without any help. He's a stud.

 

[Mess]

He dropped mainly because of the categories/judging.

Kessel dropped in TSN rankings for the same reasons because he is far from a complete player, lacking in size, physicality, leadership and 2-way play, and plays the least essential position winger on a NHL team, which means he doesn't take key face-offs etc.

These are things NHL GMs and coaches place value in also.

 

[pspot]

I agree with Kessel being better than Couture/Subban/Nash (60% name value) but honestly, E. Staal is a beast. He has been producing consistantly since hes been in the league and for long stretches without any help. He's a stud.

Kessel plays the least valuable position in hockey
Subban Is a Norris trophy defenseman and RHD (premium)

Kessel hasn't actually ever scored 40 goals, he hasn't ever won an individual award and hasn't lead his team to any significant success.

Yes he is talented, and yes he has the potential to do all those things, but he hasn't so why should he get credit for them? In terms of rankings like these and in salary/term.

Kessel dropped in TSN rankings for the same reasons because he is far from a complete player, lacking in size, physicality, leadership and 2-way play, and plays the least essential position winger on a NHL team, which means he doesn't take key face-offs etc.

These are things NHL GMs and coaches place value in also.

Exactly, if hockey was just offensive stats and talent he'd no doubt be higher, but its not
and saying this isn't a bad thing or saying you don't like Kessel.

 

[Wendelstache]

I like Yahoo's list more, but Stammer is too high.

Kessel should be where Kane should be around top 10-15 in the league.

 

[pspot]

TSN does have Kessel as 9th in projected scoring for 2013

they are generally the most accurate of all sources (Dobber, SportingNews, ESPN, Forcaster)

 

[Mess]

Exactly, if hockey was just offensive stats and talent he'd no doubt be higher, but its not
and saying this isn't a bad thing or saying you don't like Kessel.

Many fans only see points as the most important factor to rank players but NHL professionals see player impact and contribution in all areas that help a team win.

Its why a Selke trophy winning 2-way top center like Patrice Bergeron #16 ranks much higher in their eyes then a 1-way scoring winger like Kessel #43 when it comes to helping a team win. Killing penalties, winning key face-offs, shutting down other teams top players, providing leadership, hitting, blocking shots etc. all add above and beyond just goals and assists to player value\contribution.

 

[Atomos2]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=432765

On TSN's ranking of the Top 50 NHL players Kessel ranked 43rd which is an improvement from ranking 47th in the previous one. However I was surprised that he didn't rank among the top 30 or even 20 based on his play from the past few seasons and they have Taylor Hall out ranking him at 39th. So what are your opinions or does something like this even matter?

I seriously just spit out my coffee. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Kessel could win the hart trophy next year and I bet he'd only get as high as Lucic.

 

[pspot]

Many fans only see points as the most important factor to rank players but NHL professionals see player impact and contribution in all areas that help a team win.

Its why a Selke trophy winning 2-way top center like Patrice Bergeron #16 ranks much higher in their eyes then a 1-way scoring winger like Kessel #43 when it comes to helping a team win. Killing penalties, winning key face-offs, shutting down other teams top players, providing leadership, hitting, blocking shots etc. all add above and beyond just goals and assists to player value\contribution.

I guess the argument would be, (for how much to pay him) which is more rare?

forwards only

there were 20 players that scored over a point per game last year
15 that scored 20 or more
of those only 4 had a minus +/-

finding comparable to Bergeron is tougher +/- and FO %?
there were 10 players with a +/- greater than 20
there were 7 players that won 500 or more faceoffs

 

[Mess]

I guess the argument would be, (for how much to pay him) which is more rare?

forwards only

there were 20 players that scored over a point per game last year
15 that scored 20 or more
of those only 4 had a minus +/-

finding comparable to Bergeron is tougher +/- and FO %?
there were 10 players with a +/- greater than 20
there were 7 players that won 500 or more faceoffs

Patrice Bergeron just resigned with his team for 8 years $52 mil UFA deal with a cap average of $6.5 mil per, beginning in 2014-15.

Bergeron is a far more complete & versatile player than Kessel and as we can see from this NHL management ranking here considered far more valuable to a winning team as a better player.

How will Kessel's next contract compare?

Even if Nonis could get Kessel resigned to the Bergeron deal, Boston still would win out as a much better signing and cap management contract for overall player contribution.

 

[Primary Assist]

Patrice Bergeron just resigned with his team for 8 years $52 mil UFA deal with a cap average of $6.5 mil per.

Bergeron is a more complete player than Kessel and as we can see from this NHL management ranking here considered far more valuable to a winning team.

How will Kessel's next contract compare?

Even if Nonis could get Kessel resigned to the Bergeron deal, Boston still would win out as a much better signing and cap management contract for overall player contribution.

Bergeron probably could have fetched more on the open market though. And despite all of his intangibles, he probably won't put up 30 goals again while Phil is trending towards 40. If the Leafs had just won the Cup a few years ago and were a bona-fide contender then I'm sure Phil would be more likely to sign a hometown discount.

 

[DD03]

Patrice Bergeron just resigned with his team for 8 years $52 mil UFA deal with a cap average of $6.5 mil per, beginning in 2014-15.

Bergeron is a far more complete & versatile player than Kessel and as we can see from this NHL management ranking here considered far more valuable to a winning team as a better player.

How will Kessel's next contract compare?

Even if Nonis could get Kessel resigned to the Bergeron deal, Boston still would win out as a much better signing and cap management contract for overall player contribution.

Why are you comparing apples and oranges?

 

[pspot]

Patrice Bergeron just resigned with his team for 8 years $52 mil UFA deal with a cap average of $6.5 mil per, beginning in 2014-15.

Bergeron is a far more complete & versatile player than Kessel and as we can see from this NHL management ranking here considered far more valuable to a winning team as a better player.

How will Kessel's next contract compare?

Even if Nonis could get Kessel resigned to the Bergeron deal, Boston still would win out as a much better signing and cap management contract for overall player contribution.

and TL and Nonis have talked about how key cap management is now....just look at LA

I've always thought Kessel long term 8 years should get a bit more than Semin
7.25 to 7.5 max and that would be a fair stay in Toronto deal. Anything around 8 would be bad cap management IMO

you make a deal like that hoping he reaches his full potential (individual awards, 40+ goals, etc) and that he can actually maintain it for the majority of that contract. Successful teams don't build around sniper wingers. ....and again this is not a knock on Kessel

 

[Mess]

Bergeron probably could have fetched more on the open market though. And despite all of his intangibles, he probably won't put up 30 goals again while Phil is trending towards 40. If the Leafs had just won the Cup a few years ago and were a bona-fide contender then I'm sure Phil would be more likely to sign a hometown discount.

Bergeron signed and hometown discount to attempt to keep a Cup competitive team together which shows the kind of team player he is putting the team in front on his own personal gain.

Do you expect Kessel to offer the Leafs a hometown discount, because if he doesn't, wouldn't it suggest that it would make it harder for the Leafs to become Cup competitive if their players want top dollar as opposed to cap friendly deals?.

Hopefully this TSN list compiled by NHL management has a positive effect on Kessel's next contract when he recognizes how he is viewed around the league among his peers. Comparables are used when contracts are determined so players on this list ahead of Kessel in similar contract situation status should play a part in Kessel's demands.

 

[WildcatMapleLeafs28]

Neal and Parise ahead of Kessel

 

[Anth93]

It is what it is guys.

The outspoken media friendly players will always prevail in these type of lists.

 

[Parkdale]

Since this is based on the actual consolidated opinions of NHL GMs and coaches and Nonis peers in the industry, hopefully our GM can use this to his advantage to get Kessel resigned to a more cap friendly contract as a result.

If Kessel is considered in the 40-50 range of NHL players, hopefully his next salary will reflect that, as opposed to being among the highest paid.

Among coaches and GMs Kessel is considered the 7th best RW in the game a far cry from a top 10 paid player.

What about our other high profile pending FA?.....