Confirmed with Link: [PHI/WPG] Kevin Hayes UFA rights for a 2019 5th

[SnS]

If Hayes doesnt sign it shows how bad the team is. Flyers at one time players would change there minds and go to Philly if they phoned.

Or maybe he just wants to have all the UFA offers and then pick where HE wants to be? Jesus Christ.

If the team is that bad, why do you follow them?

 

[Rich Nixon]

Broke: Competing for the Stanley Cup, not wasting the prime of your Captain’s career, enjoying the actual on-ice product that makes us hockey fans

Woke: Endlessly fawning over having the best prospect pool, worrying about the annual Flyers board prospect ranking poll, being only 2 more years away from competing

And it’s not to say Holmgren didn’t do serious and avoidable damage to the team, but he also walked into an equally-morbid situation, if not worse: A flawed, garbage roster with basically two good young talents (Carter and Richards) and a guy no one expected to be a franchise player (Giroux). He screwed up the JVR and Bobrovsky trades and signed Lecavalier, Bryz, and AMac.

He also quickly built a contender with a pen and a phone, turning a soon-to-retire star into ample resources, signing a great center, defender, and wing, and then swinging for the fences on what was then the best defenseman in the NHL. Not long after he re-geared the whole franchise by turning Mike and Jeff into Jake, Wayne, Brayden, and Sean.

Was it bad at the end? Of course, the wheels came off right after the second lockout. But “the Holmgren days” were wildly entertaining both on the ice and off, and it’s not like he didn’t help give the team a lot of the talent still on the roster today.

Hextall was a far better setup man for Fletcher than Clarke was for Holmgren. So if Fletcher can bring some of that same ambition to the office, we’re in for a treat.

 

[hatcher]

Or maybe he just wants to have all the UFA offers and then pick where HE wants to be? Jesus Christ.

If the team is that bad, why do you follow them?

Relax i just saying players would change there minds when Philly phones. Flyers will always be my team but unlike you this team has sucked for 6 years with no excitement about them.

 

[Redpath]

And it’s not to say Holmgren didn’t do serious and avoidable damage to the team, but he also walked into an equally-morbid situation, if not worse: A flawed, garbage roster with basically two good young talents (Carter and Richards) and a guy no one expected to be a franchise player (Giroux). He screwed up the JVR and Bobrovsky trades and signed Lecavalier, Bryz, and AMac.

He also quickly built a contender with a pen and a phone, turning a soon-to-retire star into ample resources, signing a great center, defender, and wing, and then swinging for the fences on what was then the best defenseman in the NHL. Not long after he re-geared the whole franchise by turning Mike and Jeff into Jake, Wayne, Brayden, and Sean.

Was it bad at the end? Of course, the wheels came off right after the second lockout. But “the Holmgren days” were wildly entertaining both on the ice and off, and it’s not like he didn’t help give the team a lot of the talent still on the roster today.

Hextall was a far better setup man for Fletcher than Clarke was for Holmgren. So if Fletcher can bring some of that same ambition to the office, we’re in for a treat.

And it isn’t even that people having been clamoring for the “Holmgren way” the last five years. Hextall practically had 100% support from this forum and organization for his first three years. People just want some initiative eventually, we miss having fun.

 

[deadhead]

He also quickly built a contender with a pen and a phone, turning a soon-to-retire star into ample resources, signing a great center, defender, and wing, and then swinging for the fences on what was then the best defenseman in the NHL. Not long after he re-geared the whole franchise by turning Mike and Jeff into Jake, Wayne, Brayden, and Sean.

He didn't have to worry about the cap at first, and when he did, he blew it.

Fletcher has the luxury of lots of cap room and assets, the key is to understand what went wrong in Minnesota (overpriced UFA contracts, trading 1st rd picks for second tier talent at the TDL with no impact on playoff outcomes) and not repeat his mistakes.

I don't want to be CBJ, one playoff run then le deluge.

 

[SnS]

Relax i just saying players would change there minds when Philly phones. Flyers will always be my team but unlike you this team has sucked for 6 years with no excitement about them.

Times change, people change. Teams change. Not everyone wants to come here. It doesn’t have to be like that.

“Unlike” me? What the f*** does that even mean? Just because I don’t want to blow my load on Kevin hayes. Doesn’t mean I have no excitement about the team.

I’m just past the stage of expecting everything from Scott and Holmgren. They have a puppet in Fletcher.

Hextall set the cap up beautiful. And now in one off season if frick and frack have anything to say about it, it’ll be destroyed.

 

[Rich Nixon]

He didn't have to worry about the cap at first, and when he did, he blew it.

Fletcher has the luxury of lots of cap room and assets, the key is to understand what went wrong in Minnesota (overpriced UFA contracts, trading 1st rd picks for second tier talent at the TDL with no impact on playoff outcomes) and not repeat his mistakes.

I don't want to be CBJ, one playoff run then le deluge.

I think the thing with him in Minnesota is that his teams didn't have good bones to start with, and he was constantly in a position where his team did need something more, and he was constantly paying the price to get that. The Flyers currently have at least one player better than anyone who has ever worn that Wild sweater, and probably three other players better than all but a handful.

So Fletcher was always pushing to make the playoffs and make a splash, but he didn't have the guns to start with. Think of his teams there as a crappy version of the current Bruins, no tank-earned superstars, just solid goaltending and depth. He was buying pieces at deadline and free agency prices, but basically just treading water as players left.

So, back to the notion of what a GM walks into when they take the job, Fletcher's in a great situation now. I don't think he'll have to make those mistakes as frequently as he did before, because unlike those Minnesota teams, this team actually has a chance of contending with a few moves.

 

[deadhead]

Hayes by himself isn't enough to destroy all that beautiful cap room.
And if they can refrain from adding and overpaying Trouba or somone like him, they'll be OK.

This team is actually perfectly positioned for a couple rental veterans (1-2 years left on contract or short UFA deal) to bridge to the prospects in LHV or a year away. And that won't hurt the long-term cap situation at all.

 

[SnS]

I’m pretty sure if they get desperate enough and feel hayes isn’t going to sign. They can up the money. Which Inturn would screw up the cap.

And with everything else coming out. I think Trouba will come here and we will overpay for that.

I’d much rather go for Spurgeon / EK.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

And it’s not to say Holmgren didn’t do serious and avoidable damage to the team, but he also walked into an equally-morbid situation, if not worse: A flawed, garbage roster with basically two good young talents (Carter and Richards) and a guy no one expected to be a franchise player (Giroux).

That’s not close to true — Homer did not walk into “an equally morbid situation.”

Holmgren walked into a GREAT situation. Far, far better than he left it when fired.

True, he took over a team that would finish last in the league, but it was still a team that had been an East contender for years & was intentionally set up as beautifully as can be for an immediate turnaround.

True, perhaps pre-Homer they miscalculated a year early how ready Richards & Carter would be, & got killed by Forsberg playing only 40 games & the goaltending being an epic disaster. But they knew they were in for a mediocre season & had planned well to be able to reload in the off-season with loads of cap room to add to a young Richards, Carter, & Giroux.

Holmgren reaped the benefits of the good cap management & planning before him (something he would do the opposite of to the GM taking over for him later) by adding FAs Briere, Timonen, Hartnell, & Biron.

You aren’t going to inherit a better center situation than a 21 y/o Carter, 21 y/o Richards, & a 19 y/o Giroux in the system.

He also inherited a 22 y/o Pitkanen on D who was a recent 4th overall pick & loaded with value;
he inherited a 26 y/o 41 goal scoring Gagne;
a 24 y/o promising Umberger who had already scored 20 goals in the NHL;
AND Peter Forsberg, the most sought after trade deadline acquisition in years!

Oh, & he started with the #2 overall pick (JVR) also.

You’d be very hard pressed to take over a more fertile situation as NHL GM than Holmgren did.

 

[Adtar02]

Homer was fired??????

When was this reported????? I thought for sure he was promoted to president not fired as gm. Maybe I missed something

When did the salary cap start???? Pretty sure it was around when homer started. Like the lock out. So how could he reap benefits of great cap management when there wasn’t one before???????

 

[Starat327]

If Hayes doesnt sign it shows how bad the team is. Flyers at one time players would change there minds and go to Philly if they phoned.

Just got back and already with the steaming takes.

 

[Adtar02]

Just got back and already with the steaming takes.

It’s never ending.

 

[hatcher]

That’s not close to true — Homer did not walk into “an equally morbid situation.”

Holmgren walked into a GREAT situation. Far, far better than he left it when fired.

True, he took over a team that would finish last in the league, but it was still a team that had been an East contender for years & was intentionally set up as beautifully as can be for an immediate turnaround.

True, perhaps pre-Homer they miscalculated a year early how ready Richards & Carter would be, & got killed by Forsberg playing only 40 games & the goaltending being an epic disaster. But they knew they were in for a mediocre season & had planned well to be able to reload in the off-season with loads of cap room to add to a young Richards, Carter, & Giroux.

Holmgren reaped the benefits of the good cap management & planning before him (something he would do the opposite of to the GM taking over for him later) by adding FAs Briere, Timonen, Hartnell, & Biron.

You aren’t going to inherit a better center situation than a 21 y/o Carter, 21 y/o Richards, & a 19 y/o Giroux in the system.

He also inherited a 22 y/o Pitkanen on D who was a recent 4th overall pick & loaded with value;
he inherited a 26 y/o 41 goal scoring Gagne;
a 24 y/o promising Umberger who had already scored 20 goals in the NHL;
AND Peter Forsberg, the most sought after trade deadline acquisition in years!

Oh, & he started with the #2 overall pick (JVR) also.

You’d be very hard pressed to take over a more fertile situation as NHL GM than Holmgren did.

Homer had it real good when he took over.

 

[hatcher]

Just got back and already with the steaming takes.

Not steaming takes. There has been lots of FA's that changed there minds to Philly like Forsberg and Roenick and a hoist of others. Players play against this team and were not close to winning anything right now so in the players minds why come here but some will. Hopefully Hayes sees something he likes and signs.

 

[Starat327]

Not steaming takes. There has been lots of FA's that changed there minds to Philly like Forsberg and Roenick and a hoist of others. Players play against this team and were not close to winning anything right now so in the players minds why come here but some will. Hopefully Hayes sees something he likes and signs.

Flyers just landed one of the bigger UFAs last free agency, but yeah, lets pretend that didnt happen.

Steaming.

 

[crazyflyerfan]

Homer was a trade crazed nut. He traded away picks, prospects, everything to get a deal. He left the team in shambles. Reason they hired a GM which was a draft guy, sign lower talent. Hexy rebuilt that team on every level. This takes years to accomplish.

 

[Rich Nixon]

That’s not close to true — Homer did not walk into “an equally morbid situation.”

Holmgren walked into a GREAT situation. Far, far better than he left it when fired.

True, he took over a team that would finish last in the league, but it was still a team that had been an East contender for years & was intentionally set up as beautifully as can be for an immediate turnaround.

True, perhaps pre-Homer they miscalculated a year early how ready Richards & Carter would be, & got killed by Forsberg playing only 40 games & the goaltending being an epic disaster. But they knew they were in for a mediocre season & had planned well to be able to reload in the off-season with loads of cap room to add to a young Richards, Carter, & Giroux.

Holmgren reaped the benefits of the good cap management & planning before him (something he would do the opposite of to the GM taking over for him later) by adding FAs Briere, Timonen, Hartnell, & Biron.

You aren’t going to inherit a better center situation than a 21 y/o Carter, 21 y/o Richards, & a 19 y/o Giroux in the system.

He also inherited a 22 y/o Pitkanen on D who was a recent 4th overall pick & loaded with value;
he inherited a 26 y/o 41 goal scoring Gagne;
a 24 y/o promising Umberger who had already scored 20 goals in the NHL;
AND Peter Forsberg, the most sought after trade deadline acquisition in years!

Oh, & he started with the #2 overall pick (JVR) also.

You’d be very hard pressed to take over a more fertile situation as NHL GM than Holmgren did.

What did I just read? He had two good centers, an amazing C prospect, a flawed young defenseman, and a good winger? Forsberg’s corpse, an OK Pitkanen (but he was a high pick!) and Umberger? And he worked his way to #2 overall in one of the weakest drafts in the past 20 years?

The Flyers had no farm system, no goaltending, no defense (aside from the statues Clarke had just signed), and no real forward depth. Look at the roster and prospect pool in October 2006, it was garbage. He had some forward pieces to work with, but he basically had to build an entire NHL team around them and he did that. He did not rebuild the prospect pool well, but it’s difficult to do both at the sane time, and he transitioned to restocking way too late/never after he’d completed the NHL team.

Saying he walked into a good situation is almost revisionist history, and the “good cap management” before him is a laugh. The league had had a cap for barely a year! The ceiling was like $400!

 

[hatcher]

Flyers just landed one of the bigger UFAs last free agency, but yeah, lets pretend that didnt happen.

Steaming.

Thats great. Lets see what happens. We need big trades and a different look anyway.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Friedman on his podcast doesn’t sound all too confident that the flyers will sign Hayes

Also makes it know that the top brass is very impatient and our first rounder is absolutely in play right now.

Demonstrating how stupid it is to trade for UFA negotiation. Waste.

Either they over pay him ahead of the market or waste assets. There’s no point.

 

[Rebels57]

If we end up missing out on Hayes, go get Kadri and his sweet contract.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Demonstrating how stupid it is to trade for UFA negotiation. Waste.

Either they over pay him ahead of the market or waste assets. There’s no point.

It’s the Homer influence. Dude lived to trade for signing rights. It’s become even more pointless since you’re legally allowed to talk players a week before free agency now.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Friedman on 31 thoughts pod (best pod ever) - paraphrase

"Hayes was looking for at least 5 x 5.5...this is where we are starting at...price may go up if teams are interested"

Marek on 31 thoughts pod

"if I'm Nolan Patrick I'm thinking uh-oh, 2c is my spot"

Friedman "there has been rumblings about moving him"

"Fletcher told me, 20 year old centers are hard to come by. If we deal him, it will be from the position of and you're gonna see the deal and you're gonna understand it"

"They'll see whats out there"


Friedman on Comcast
"they are impatient. First round pick is in play"

 

[SnS]

If we end up missing out on Hayes, go get Kadri and his sweet contract.

Unless Kadri is close to free. No thanks.

I think he’s a loose cannon.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Friedman on 31 thoughts pod (best pod ever) - paraphrase

"Hayes was looking for at least 5 x 5.5...this is where we are starting at...price may go up if teams are interested"

Marek on 31 thoughts pod

"if I'm Nolan Patrick I'm thinking uh-oh, 2c is my spot"

Friedman "there has been rumblings about moving him"

"Fletcher told me, 20 year old centers are hard to come by. If we deal him, it will be from the position of and you're gonna see the deal and you're gonna understand it"

"They'll see whats out there"


Friedman on Comcast
"they are impatient. First round pick is in play"

That’s truly terrifying