Confirmed with Link: [PHI/SJS] Justin Braun acquired for 2019 2nd (#41) and 2020 3rd Part II

[rinaldo]

Yeah, it's illogical but just a weak attempt to defend the trade.

Like if an electronics store has a TV stolen and then sells a TV they didn't break even... they're still out the cost of the one that disappeared.

nope insurance will pay for it..

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Some are just mad Ghost is still here

There’s gonna be a day when he’s on the “third” pairing and still clear twenty minutes—1 g, 2 pp assists. It’ll be magically confusing for the whole board.

 

[Striiker]

There’s gonna be a day when he’s on the “third” pairing and still clear twenty minutes—1 g, 2 pp assists. It’ll be magically confusing for the whole board.

I don’t care what order people write the pairings, so long as he’s played the right amount.

 

[deadhead]

I don’t care what order people write the pairings, so long as he’s played the right amount.

We agree, Ghost should play the right amount, 15-16 minutes at ES, and 3-4 minutes on the PP.
Keep him under 20 minutes a night and keep him healthy.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

I don’t care what order people write the pairings, so long as he’s played the right amount.

We agree, Ghost should play the right amount, 15-16 minutes at ES, and 3-4 minutes on the PP.
Keep him under 20 minutes a night and keep him healthy.

I promise it can happen. And be balanced. And everything will be okay.

 

[TB87]

Justin Braun’s Shot Suppression #’s vs. Elite Forward Competition last season (AKA top 6 forwards), was one of the best in the league among defenseman with 500+TOI at Even-Strength:

DFA/60: Dangerous Fenwick Against/60 (AKA PuckIQ’s expected goals stat)

SACA/60: Score & Venue Adjusted Corsi Against/60

(Data per PuckIQ’s Quality of Competition Metric).



His individual quality-weighted shot suppression impact at Even-Strength via EvolvingWild’s RAPM was pretty stellar as well:

- 8th (out of 72 Dmen with 1300+TOI) in Even-Strength RAPM xGA




This isn’t some scrub defenseman. He does have his flaws. Notably middling puck skills, & he is net negative in the offensive zone.

Where he excels is in the defensive zone: reads, stick-on-puck plays, winning 50/50 battles, taking away time and space, disrupting entries, & protecting the house, etc. For only 1 year, he’ll be fine as a top 4 defenseman.

 

[Striiker]

I promise it can happen. And be balanced. And everything will be okay.

You wouldn't lie to me, would you?

 

[prototypical4thliner]

You wouldn't lie to me, would you?

I’m pragmatically positive. That’s my plan for the offseason.

If there is any tomfoolery in-season, all bets are off and I’m back to negative nancy mode.

 

[Rebels57]

The comparison is about last years play, not overall careers.

Braun was still better last year.

 

[Striiker]

Braun was still better last year.

Literally everyone was.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Braun was not a cap dump. Just stop.
If they had the cap space, he'd still be in their top 4.

The Sharks actually have $5.38M in cap space with 8 defensemen on the NHL roster. I don’t mean to storm into another team’s board and tell them what my team can and can’t do, but this is wrong; they could have absolutely kept Braun.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

The Sharks actually have $5.38M in cap space with 8 defensemen on the NHL roster. I don’t mean to storm into another team’s board and tell them what my team can and can’t do, but this is wrong; they could have absolutely kept Braun.

Joe Thornton will be getting five of that.

But serious, your opinion is welcome. If not for cap ramifications, what gives?

 

[FlyerNutter]

Fletcher had to please two masters, Scott/Holmgren, who want to win now, and AV, who I'm sure had a list of demands when he took the job, and probably gave Fletcher a lot of feedback about the kind of players he needed (he helped lobby Hayes, for example).

The only significant assets that Fletcher sacrificed were #41, some-short term cap room, and the overpay on Hayes (he still has significant value as a marginal top six/solid top nine two way forward).

While he subtracted net value, it was from an organization with surplus value.

In return, not only are the Flyers more competitive this season, but both the NHL and AHL teams are better environments for player development, which may increase the value of their remaining prospects.

I don’t really give a rats ass who Fletcher has to please.

If he’s simply going to be a “yes man” he’s a shitty GM. If he can’t sell the value of NOT making stupid moves to his owner, he’s a shitty GM.

Basically, we don’t know what kind of GM he will be after say a couple more years - but some concern is warranted.

 

[TCTC]

The Sharks actually have $5.38M in cap space with 8 defensemen on the NHL roster. I don’t mean to storm into another team’s board and tell them what my team can and can’t do, but this is wrong; they could have absolutely kept Braun.

So, you're not planing on re-signing Joe Thornton? Because I doubt he'll sign for $1.5M. And then there's still Marleau and other possible FA additions because quite frankly without 1-2 additions your forward lineup won't scare many teams.

 

[Adam Warlock]

At the end of the day...it is all going to come down to how AV uses his line up. If by mid season the 6 best D are playing every night with appropriate minutes...then no harm having Braun here. However, if this is the Hakstol shit all over again where Braun is the coaches pet who plays way more than he should and holds back the talented D...then that will be a problem.

 

[Starat327]

The Sharks actually have $5.38M in cap space with 8 defensemen on the NHL roster. I don’t mean to storm into another team’s board and tell them what my team can and can’t do, but this is wrong; they could have absolutely kept Braun.

He wouldve been had your GM signed Joe before the trade. He was smart and made his cap moves first, because he knew Joe wasnt going to sign anywhere else.

Meanwhile, Fletcher jumped at the first shot he could to overpay for what would end up being a cap dump. Kudos to your GM for pulling it off, and shame on ours for not knowing how to be a GM.

 

[Rebels57]

The Sharks actually have $5.38M in cap space with 8 defensemen on the NHL roster. I don’t mean to storm into another team’s board and tell them what my team can and can’t do, but this is wrong; they could have absolutely kept Braun.

You have 10 forwards on the roster at the moment. You need 3 more.

 

[Rebels57]

He wouldve been had your GM signed Joe before the trade. He was smart and made his cap moves first, because he knew Joe wasnt going to sign anywhere else.

Meanwhile, Fletcher jumped at the first shot he could to overpay for what would end up being a cap dump. Kudos to your GM for pulling it off, and shame on ours for not knowing how to be a GM.

 

[TCTC]

He wouldve been had your GM signed Joe before the trade. He was smart and made his cap moves first, because he knew Joe wasnt going to sign anywhere else.

Meanwhile, Fletcher jumped at the first shot he could to overpay for what would end up being a cap dump. Kudos to your GM for pulling it off, and shame on ours for not knowing how to be a GM.

Pulling what off exactly? They lost Pavelski, they lost Nyquist, they lost Donskoi, they lost Braun. All that without a single addition (yet) and only to keep Karlsson.

They're like Toronto. Their best shot at the Cup was last season.

 

[deadhead]

I don’t really give a rats ass who Fletcher has to please.

If he’s simply going to be a “yes man” he’s a ****ty GM. If he can’t sell the value of NOT making stupid moves to his owner, he’s a ****ty GM.

None of these were "stupid" moves, like giving Tyler Myers $30M.

They weren't "value" moves, but it was time to use some surplus assets to build a competitive organization (both the NHL team and the AHL team, the Phantoms were terrible last season).

It's not like Fletcher mortgaged the future, and the team is substantially deeper than last season.

 

[Starat327]

Pulling what off exactly? They lost Pavelski, they lost Nyquist, they lost Donskoi, they lost Braun. All that without a single addition (yet) and only to keep Karlsson.

They're like Toronto. Their best shot at the Cup was last season.

For pulling off the heist of getting a 2nd and a 3rd for Braun. Im not speaking to the state of the SJ franchise, because, after getting 'banc for 1 mil, i have absolutely no f***ing clue what other magic they have up their sleeves. I'm speaking strictly to the idea of getting that much value out of a mediocre player when the entire world could your cap situation was absolutely f***ed.

 

[deadhead]

He wouldve been had your GM signed Joe before the trade. He was smart and made his cap moves first, because he knew Joe wasnt going to sign anywhere else.

Meanwhile, Fletcher jumped at the first shot he could to overpay for what would end up being a cap dump. Kudos to your GM for pulling it off, and shame on ours for not knowing how to be a GM.

Did he overpay? Yes.
But just how much?

Miller garnered a 2nd and 5th, and he was the 6th defenseman on Vegas, Derek Engelland was #4, and he's not as good as Braun, Jonathon Merrill was #5, and he's a career 3rd line guy.

 

[Starat327]

Did he overpay? Yes.
But just how much?

Miller garnered a 2nd and 5th, and he was the 6th defenseman on Vegas, Derek Engelland was #4, and he's not as good as Braun, Jonathon Merrill was #5, and he's a career 3rd line guy.

Miller also has more term. And hes much more of an offensive defenseman, who are more highly sought after. I dont know the degree of the overpay, because im not privvy to what - if any - other offers there were. But he overpaid for someone who shouldnt have costed nearly as much.

And no, its not about the assets to me. I'm aboard the "lets make the team better" train. But his personnel moves this off season have all been overpays in some degree. While an overpay here or there is ok, it's becoming a pattern of overpaying in every deal made, and that will bury you quickly. THAT is what concerns me, not the difference between a 3rd and a 5th round pick.

 

[Rebels57]

You know your team team has sucked for a long time when part of the fanbase is literally traumatized over a trade involving a 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Starat327]

You know your reading comprehension is awful when you can't discern a point that is explicitly stated.