Confirmed with Link: [PHI/MTL] Montreal acquires Dale Weise and Christian Folin for David Schlemko and Byron Froese

[Habssince89]

I think Weise will thrive in Juliens/Ducharme's system. He's a willing soldier and will play the way they want for the fourth line. He's clearly very excited and grateful to be back and him buying in is more of a sure thing than ever.

I have little worry he'll forget his role and try to be a top6er like he did a little near the end of his time here.

I do have a few questions:

A)how is his skating? If it is more or less the same, then he'll do fine in this roster.

B)Do we think he'll improve the depth of PKers we have?

C)Does anyone actually worry that he'll somehow jump ahead of Gallagher, Shaw, and Armia on the RW? I can't see him used in a role he's not suited for.

 

[The Great Weal]

No it didnt. But ya..there is always room to improve the 4th line, lets see how good or bad Weise is.

Uhh yeah it did. The first 2 goals wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the awful 4th line. Weber was soft on the 1st goal(4th line was still responsible to some extent), and Chaput and Peca did an excellent job screening Price on the 2nd. Their 4th line KILLED ours, not their top 9.

 

[Kriss E]

Uhh yeah it did. The first 2 goals wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the awful 4th line. Weber was soft on the 1st goal(4th line was still responsible to some extent), and Chaput and Peca did an excellent job screening Price on the 2nd. Their 4th line KILLED ours, not their top 9.

And yet...was still 3-3 going in OT with a PP....so...I guess the damage wasn't all that bad. Always easy to point fingers and every line makes mistakes.
Don't get me wrong..I'm not here defending Dlo Chaput Peca or the likes. They all suck, so does Weise though, at least since he's left us.

 

[The Great Weal]

And yet...was still 3-3 going in OT with a PP....so...I guess they didn't kill us all that much. Always easy to point fingers and every line makes mistakes.
Don't get me wrong..I'm not here defending Dlo Chaput Peca or the likes. They all suck, so does Weise though, at least since he's left us.

How did they not kill that much? What the f*** were they doing on the 1st goal? Why were they screening Price on the 2nd? They played less than 10 minutes and were -2. That's a absolutely horrible. I'm definitely not blaming them 100% for that game, but to say that they didn't kill that much is just flat out wrong.

I hate +- so much but I think it's pretty telling when they are by far the worst on the team for forwards. They don't just suck, they are a liability to put on the ice even for less than 10 minutes.

 

[Kriss E]

How did they not kill that much? What the **** were they doing on the 1st goal? Why were they screening Price on the 2nd? They played less than 10 minutes and were -2. That's a absolutely horrible. I'm definitely not blaming them 100% for that game, but to say that they didn't kill that much is just flat out wrong.

I hate +- so much but I think it's pretty telling when they are by far the worst on the team for forwards. They don't just suck, they are a liability to put on the ice even for less than 10 minutes.

Did we go into OT with a PP? Given us a great chance to win.

 

[The Great Weal]

Did we go into OT with a PP? Given us a great chance to win.

Did you even read the rest of my post?

I'm definitely not blaming them 100% for that game, but to say that they didn't kill that much is just flat out wrong.

 

[Kriss E]

Did you even read the rest of my post?

Yes I did.
How can you claim the 4th line hurt us so badly when we were still in a terrific position to win the game?

 

[The Great Weal]

Yes I did.
How can you claim the 4th line hurt us so badly when we were still in a terrific position to win the game?

Because they were directly responsible for 2 out of 3 goals in the first 3 periods? I clearly said that they aren't 100% to blame for that game. Price and Weber weren't good enough and the PP is awful. However, their 4th line just had their way with ours and we were rolling 3 lines for the rest of the game after the disaster that they caused.

 

[Kriss E]

Because they were directly responsible for 2 out of 3 goals in the first 3 periods? I clearly said that they aren't 100% to blame for that game. Price and Weber weren't good enough and the PP is awful. However, their 4th line just had their way with ours and we were rolling 3 lines for the rest of the game after the disaster that they caused.

Again...and yet...we still were in a very strong position to win the game. So ya...that didn't kill us, not at all actually. We were still very much alive and in an even better position to win the game than TO.
Had we lost 5-2 and our 4th was on for 3-4 goals, then I'd agree. Not the case.

Anyways, pointless discussion. Our 4th line isn't going to be the determining factor and we have much bigger fish to fry.

 

[The Great Weal]

Again...and yet...we still were in a very strong position to win the game. So ya...that didn't kill us, not at all actually. We were still very much alive and in an even better position to win the game than TO.
Had we lost 5-2 and our 4th was on for 3-4 goals, then I'd agree. Not the case.

Anyways, pointless discussion. Our 4th line isn't going to be the determining factor and we have much bigger fish to fry.

Strongly disagree. The 4th line was responsible for 2 out of 3 goals in the first 3 periods. Who knows if OT even happens if those 2 goals dont happen? We were then running 3 lines which makes the top 9 tired. You cant just ignore that. So yes, the 4th line absolutely held us back.

Its definitely not a pointless discussion. The 4th line has been a massive issue for quite some time now. Do we have bigger needs? Of course, but that would cost us picks and prospects. We got rid of a cap dump for someone who could help fix the 4th line issue.

 

[Kriss E]

Strongly disagree. The 4th line was responsible for 2 out of 3 goals in the first 3 periods. Who knows if OT even happens if those 2 goals dont happen? We were then running 3 lines which makes the top 9 tired. You cant just ignore that. So yes, the 4th line absolutely held us back.

Its definitely not a pointless discussion. The 4th line has been a massive issue for quite some time now. Do we have bigger needs? Of course, but that would cost us picks and prospects. We got rid of a cap dump for someone who could help fix the 4th line issue.

You can disagree all you want, fact is, we were still just tied and went into OT with a PP.
So it doesn't how bad they were, we still could have clearly won the game.

It's the freaking 4th line man. They're not game changer. I'm not quite sure what it is you're even arguing for at this point. You're telling me this trade is a key one? It's an important one? Okay, let's see how big those guys are for us.

 

[Archijerej]

You can disagree all you want, fact is, we were still just tied and went into OT with a PP.
So it doesn't how bad they were, we still could have clearly won the game.

It's the freaking 4th line man. They're not game changer. I'm not quite sure what it is you're even arguing for at this point. You're telling me this trade is a key one? It's an important one? Okay, let's see how big those guys are for us.

I'm not entirely sure what you are arguing about. There are different ways to construct a roster and if you're short of top-end talent, creating an advantage at the bottom of your lineup is a viable and relatively cheap strategy. It brought success to teams like the Rangers and Vegas. Our depth of forwards is the main reason why we are successful. If you have a good 4th line it conserves energy throughout the rest of your lineup, which allows you to play a high intensity style. Ideally, they should also be able to handle some of the tougher matchups, thus creating advantage elsewhere. Now, I don't know if Weise is going to be any good, but we didn't pay anything to get him. But it's a question of usefulness of this particular player and not, as you've put it, whether a 4th line is important. It is.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not entirely sure what you are arguing about. There are different ways to construct a roster and if you're short of top-end talent, creating an advantage at the bottom of your lineup is a viable and relatively cheap strategy. It brought success to teams like the Rangers and Vegas. Our depth of forwards is the main reason why we are successful. If you have a good 4th line it conserves energy throughout the rest of your lineup, which allows you to play a high intensity style. Ideally, they should also be able to handle some of the tougher matchups, thus creating advantage elsewhere. Now, I don't know if Weise is going to be any good, but we didn't pay anything to get him. But it's a question of usefulness of this particular player and not, as you've put it, whether a 4th line is important. It is.

I dont know man...apparently suggesting swapping AHL bound players is a nothing trade warrants a backlash around here...

It's a nothing trade. That's all I said.

 

[Scintillating10]

I think Weise will thrive in Juliens/Ducharme's system. He's a willing soldier and will play the way they want for the fourth line. He's clearly very excited and grateful to be back and him buying in is more of a sure thing than ever.

I have little worry he'll forget his role and try to be a top6er like he did a little near the end of his time here.

I do have a few questions:

A)how is his skating? If it is more or less the same, than hell do fine in this roster.

B)Do we think he'll improve the depth of PKers we have?

C)Does anyone actually worry that he'll somehow jump ahead of Gallagher, Shaw, and Armia on the RW? I can't see him used in a role he's not suited for.

He is not jumping over those guys. But should be good fit on 4th line. He was a good skater when he was here before, and he wants to play here. Which are 2 necessary factors acquiring players before

 

[le_sean]

Sorry but when your 4th line has a combined 5 goals in 56 games, that’s f***ing pathetic. Look at Tampa, elite team, Paquette alone has 8 goals.

Like a poster above said, when your Top 6 isn’t comparative to your division rivals, you better hope your Bottom 6 beat them out. 3rd line is fine but the 4th is costing games. Chaput has cost the team points himself with idiotic plays. You’re just conceding scoring chances the 10-12 mins a game that they are out there. They have maybe 2 decent shifts a game.

 

[Kriss E]

Sorry but when your 4th line has a combined 5 goals in 56 games, that’s ****ing pathetic. Look at Tampa, elite team, Paquette alone has 8 goals.

Like a poster above said, when your Top 6 isn’t comparative to your division rivals, you better hope your Bottom 6 beat them out. 3rd line is fine but the 4th is costing games. Chaput has cost the team points himself with idiotic plays. You’re just conceding scoring chances the 10-12 mins a game that they are out there. They have maybe 2 decent shifts a game.

You guys make it sound like we didnt just get someone whos been absolute garbage over the past few years..

 

[Agalloch]

It's a win-win trade.

Schlemko was about to be bought up.... we needed 4th liners so why not try one that worked here and likes playing in MTL ?

If Weise sucks, we buy out his contract.

Froese for Folin is a no brainer. 2 UFA and we don't need Froese in MTL.

 

[vokiel]

It's a win-win trade.

Schlemko was about to be bought up.... we needed 4th liners so why not try one that worked here and likes playing in MTL ?

If Weise sucks, we buy out his contract.

Froese for Folin is a no brainer. 2 UFA and we don't need Froese in MTL.

I'm unsure why you think we won anything in this trade, from your description we actually didn't change much and I agree.

 

[Agalloch]

I'm unsure why you think we won anything in this trade, from your description we actually didn't change much and I agree.

Ok then, it's a 'can't lose deal'. We added a depth forward and d-man for trash. We didn't give prospects or drafts picks.

Drouin-Danault-Gallagher
Tatar-Domi-Shaw
Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Byron-???-Weise
Peca (stays because of speed), Deslauriers(stays because of his style of play)

Chaput to AHL
Hudon traded (traded because he can't find a spot on the team)

We need a real 4th line center.

Mete-Weber
Kulak-Petry
Benn-Folin
Reilly

Price
Niemi

I would try to trade Alzner for a 4th line center...

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

They all suck, so does Weise though, at least since he's left us.

Weise sucked before his first tenure here aswell, he became a very serviceable player with the Habs. I see no reason to believe he cant regain his form, atleast enough to improve the 4th line.

 

[DAChampion]

Weise sucked before his first tenure here aswell, he became a very serviceable player with the Habs. I see no reason to believe he cant regain his form, atleast enough to improve the 4th line.

The aging process.

 

[sandysan]

Ok then, it's a 'can't lose deal'. We added a depth forward and d-man for trash. We didn't give prospects or drafts picks.

Drouin-Danault-Gallagher
Tatar-Domi-Shaw
Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Byron-???-Weise
Peca, Deslauriers

Chaput to AHL
Hudon traded

We need a real 4th line center.

Mete-Weber
Kulak-Petry
Benn-Folin
Reilly

Price
Niemi

I would try to trade Alzner for a 4th line center...

what has lehkonen done to bump byron to the fourth line aside from the language thing ? although you do get points for trading hudon.

 

[Agalloch]

what has lehkonen done to bump byron to the fourth line aside from the language thing ? although you do get points for trading hudon.

Lehkonen is most likely traded for a top 4 D-man. I just kept the same lineup as we have right now.

I don't see Reilly staying too, he could be traded for a pick like we did with Morrow.

 

[sandysan]

Lehkonen is most likely traded for a top 4 D-man. I just kept the same lineup as we have right now.

I don't see Reilly staying too, he could be traded for a pick like we did with Morrow.

lehkonen alone isnt worth a top 4 D man unless he's coming from the AHL. He's gonna be like DLR, if we float him in a trade and no one will bite. It won't likely happen soon, but his value is pretty low right now and even far less talente players bring unique things, lehkonen is just imminently replaceable.

 

[Kriss E]

Weise sucked before his first tenure here aswell, he became a very serviceable player with the Habs. I see no reason to believe he cant regain his form, atleast enough to improve the 4th line.

Weise isn't 25 anymore. Good 4th liners are usually under 30s, unless they're older guys that came from being stronger top 6 earlier in their careers and have now declined to solid bottom liners.

I wouldn't bet on Weise becoming good for us.