Confirmed Signing with Link: [PHI] Kevin Hayes signs (7 Years, $7.14M AAV) Part II

[Foppberg]

I feel great about it. Our C depth is incredible.

Well that's a lie. Look, I really like Hayes. I was pumping his tires all season as a guy we should target and was disappointed to see him go to Winnipeg and then to Philly, but 7.1M x 7 years with a NMC in the first 3 years (so no expansion eligibility) is insane. If I were in your GMs shoes I would rather have shelled out a bit more cash for a substantial upgrade in Duchene.
I don't think anybody can say they love this deal without lying to themselves, it happens all the time once a contract is finally signed, the fans of the team that signed that player immediately begin finding positives, which makes sense. It's a bad deal but it helps Philly be better now so you look for the silver lining where you can.

 

[StoneHands]

He is more a 2/3 center based on his career.

He managed 19 goals and 55 points in one of the highest scoring seasons in some time.

Despite this being a high scoring season with a ton of players putting up huge numbers, Hayes was still very much a 2C. He's essential been an average 2C for the past 3 seasons especially at even strength. He's not a great 2C but finishing 45th, 47th, and 42nd in ES scoring among centers despite missing some time firmly puts him into the 2C category. His 110 ES points ranks 37th among centers over the past 3 seasons.

2Cs should be in the 32-62 range

2019:
45th in ES points

2018:
47th in ES points

2017:
42nd in ES points

 

[Rich Nixon]

NMC in the first 3 years (so no expansion eligibility) is insane.

Where do you see this.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Well that's a lie. Look, I really like Hayes. I was pumping his tires all season as a guy we should target and was disappointed to see him go to Winnipeg and then to Philly, but 7.1M x 7 years with a NMC in the first 3 years (so no expansion eligibility) is insane. If I were in your GMs shoes I would rather have shelled out a bit more cash for a substantial upgrade in Duchene.
I don't think anybody can say they love this deal without lying to themselves, it happens all the time once a contract is finally signed, the fans of the team that signed that player immediately begin finding positives, which makes sense. It's a bad deal but it helps Philly be better now so you look for the silver lining where you can.

I believe that's not true.

I don't think anybody can say they love this deal without lying to themselves, it happens all the time once a contract is finally signed, the fans of the team that signed that player immediately begin finding positives, which makes sense. It's a bad deal but it helps Philly be better now so you look for the silver lining where you can.

No one loves this deal except for the NHLPA and Kevin Hayes. Doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do for a team looking to make the official jump into contention. The Flyers are a playoff team for sure (barring injury) now and may make some serious noise.

Just be a fan for a second and go "Hey, our team is better now. That's great" without scrutinizing the cap hit. GMs get out of bad contracts all the time -- it isn't life or death.

 

[AtlasRust]

Well that's a lie. Look, I really like Hayes. I was pumping his tires all season as a guy we should target and was disappointed to see him go to Winnipeg and then to Philly, but 7.1M x 7 years with a NMC in the first 3 years (so no expansion eligibility) is insane. If I were in your GMs shoes I would rather have shelled out a bit more cash for a substantial upgrade in Duchene.
I don't think anybody can say they love this deal without lying to themselves, it happens all the time once a contract is finally signed, the fans of the team that signed that player immediately begin finding positives, which makes sense. It's a bad deal but it helps Philly be better now so you look for the silver lining where you can.

Thanks for your opinion!

 

[ImNeverWrong]

He is more a 2/3 center based on his career.

He managed 19 goals and 55 points in one of the highest scoring seasons in some time.

Well he produced like a 45 pt 3rd liner when he played on the 3rd line. When stepan got moved he played on the 2nd line and scored like 55 to 60 pt 2nd line center.

If you can attack him for one thing, it's his durability. But when he plays, hes a solid second liner.

55 points in 71 GP. a 63 point pace. he'll likely have JVR and Voracek on his wings, giving him the best linemates he's ever had. fully expect around 60 points from him next season. so 7m for a 60 point 2 way C isn't bad at all. most of us just hate the term. it's 1-2 years too many.

he'll only be 33 when the contract ends. so even the term isn't THAT bad.

 

[SI90]

I read their plan is to move Giroux wing full time? Can flyers fans confirm this? Seems crazy to me. I guess they like Couts Patrik and Hayes as their top 3 and would prefer Giroux on the wing instead of Patrick or Couts.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I read their plan is to move Giroux wing full time? Can flyers fans confirm this? Seems crazy to me. I guess they like Couts Patrik and Hayes as their top 3 and would prefer Giroux on the wing instead of Patrick or Couts.

He's been there for the better part of the last two seasons already. Almost all of his 102-point year, and then about half of last year.

 

[Foppberg]

Where do you see this.

 

[StoneHands]

I read their plan is to move Giroux wing full time? Can flyers fans confirm this? Seems crazy to me. I guess they like Couts Patrik and Hayes as their top 3 and would prefer Giroux on the wing instead of Patrick or Couts.

Giroux has been primarily a winger for two seasons now. The only times he's played center has been when Patrick has been out or the team was struggling last season and Hakstol just started switching things up. Moving Giroux to the wing revitalized his career and that's where he should stay.

 

[SI90]

He's been there for the better part of the last two seasons already. Almost all of his 102-point year, and then about half of last year.

I thought he was shifted back and fourth and they now decided full time. Interesting. Thank you

 

[Dooble08]

Well that's a lie. Look, I really like Hayes. I was pumping his tires all season as a guy we should target and was disappointed to see him go to Winnipeg and then to Philly, but 7.1M x 7 years with a NMC in the first 3 years (so no expansion eligibility) is insane. If I were in your GMs shoes I would rather have shelled out a bit more cash for a substantial upgrade in Duchene.
I don't think anybody can say they love this deal without lying to themselves, it happens all the time once a contract is finally signed, the fans of the team that signed that player immediately begin finding positives, which makes sense. It's a bad deal but it helps Philly be better now so you look for the silver lining where you can.

Nobody is disagreeing that the contract is for too much money or too long. The expansion draft is basically a non-factor. Seattle can have JVR. But the positives outweigh the negatives here. It gives us better center depth: Couturier, Hayes, Patrick, Laughton. We no longer have to use AHL players as a 4th line center: Corban Knight, Phil Varone etc. Allows Patrick more time to develop. Makes our defense/penalty kill better. Improves our offense/2nd power play unit. If he continues to play the way he has recently (and we need the cap space), he'll be fairly easy to move. Look at what's happening in Toronto. Hfboards "Toronto is in cap hell. Nobody will take Zaitsev, Marleau, or Kadri. Marner will be offersheeted and Toronto won't be able to match." But in all reality, Toronto will be able to move any of those players, resign Marner and potentially Kapanen/Johnsson.

 

[flyersfan018]

Whatever helps you guys feel better about it

Yes we all desperately want your approval on the signing.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I'll wait until I see another source with it.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Well that's a lie. Look, I really like Hayes. I was pumping his tires all season as a guy we should target and was disappointed to see him go to Winnipeg and then to Philly, but 7.1M x 7 years with a NMC in the first 3 years (so no expansion eligibility) is insane. If I were in your GMs shoes I would rather have shelled out a bit more cash for a substantial upgrade in Duchene.
I don't think anybody can say they love this deal without lying to themselves, it happens all the time once a contract is finally signed, the fans of the team that signed that player immediately begin finding positives, which makes sense. It's a bad deal but it helps Philly be better now so you look for the silver lining where you can.

Lol, insane? What an overreaction. Duchene probably isn't interested in signing with Philly. It's not an either/or situation for most, if not all teams.

Duchene is probably going to get 2-2.5 million more per year. Panarin will probably get 4 million more.

No one should love this deal, because you should only love deals that are extraordinarily fair or discounted. But this is the exact market price that a second-line, shutdown C will command.

This isn't 2009. It's 2019. The cap has more than doubled since it was implemented. And almost precisely, so too have the prices for players. 2nd line centers get 7 million these days. That's the cost.

 

[72hockey guy]

all this hullabaloo over nothing. the teams complaining almost all wanted him. its 1000% sour grapes.

if you need a center you do what you gotta do period or you dont compete

I applaud Philly for stepping up....what are they to give up on the season before it starts?

its total bull#$%^Z. plain and simple, same with those complaining about Nelson.

its a hell of a lot better than having Soderberg as your 2C

and as a Islander fan you cant just sit on your Laurels in this division as you can in others

 

[StoneHands]

Say what you want but this is a really good lineup IMO.

Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
Lindblom - Hayes - Voracek
JvR - Patrick - Frost/Farabee
Raffl - Laughton - Hartman

Provorov - Niskanen
Sanheim - Braun
Ghost - Myers
Morin/Hagg

Hart
7 other goalies

 

[Foppberg]

all this hullabaloo over nothing. the teams complaining almost all wanted him. its 1000% sour grapes.

if you need a center you do what you gotta do period or you dont compete

I applaud Philly for stepping up....what are they to give up on the season before it starts?

its total bull#$%^Z. plain and simple, same with those complaining about Nelson.

its a hell of a lot better than having Soderberg as your 2C

It's not really sour grapes, as Philly is my 2nd favourite team. Whatever, all I was saying was it's not a contract I'd be happy with & think it's overpayment. Philly gets a solid 2way #2C and will deal with any cap crunching that might happen down the road.

Soda was great for us last year though, almost put up 50 points in a mostly defensive role. I just hope we can make a trade for a JT Miller/Kadri or buy low on Wennberg or somebody of that ilk.

 

[Dooble08]

Say what you want but this is a really good lineup IMO.

Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
Lindblom - Hayes - Voracek
JvR - Patrick - Frost/Farabee
Raffl - Laughton - Hartman

Provorov - Niskanen
Sanheim - Braun
Ghost - Myers
Morin/Hagg

Hart
7 other goalies

 

[Mick Jagr]

Say what you want but this is a really good lineup IMO.

Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
Lindblom - Hayes - Voracek
JvR - Patrick - Frost/Farabee
Raffl - Laughton - Hartman

Provorov - Niskanen
Sanheim - Braun
Ghost - Myers
Morin/Hagg

Hart
7 other goalies

Its an improvement over last season. Should be decently competitive if this is the team Philly ices at the start of the year. The additions of Nikanen and Braun are really good help stablaize Philly's back end. I like those more than the Hayes move. I feel like the Hayes contract basically nullifies Patrick from getting a shot at the 2nd line center role any time soon. You can't move Hayes to 3rd line either otherwise you're paying 7 million a season to a third line center...

 

[HuskyBruinPride]

Lol what an overpayment. Awful considering the term too. Likely buyout candidate down the road...

 

[Ivan13]

Lol, insane? What an overreaction. Duchene probably isn't interested in signing with Philly. It's not an either/or situation for most, if not all teams.

Duchene is probably going to get 2-2.5 million more per year. Panarin will probably get 4 million more.

No one should love this deal, because you should only love deals that are extraordinarily fair or discounted. But this is the exact market price that a second-line, shutdown C will command.

This isn't 2009. It's 2019. The cap has more than doubled since it was implemented. And almost precisely, so too have the prices for players. 2nd line centers get 7 million these days. That's the cost.

I love this parroting of “2nd line center”. As if all are made equal. He is a low end one who hasn’t cracked 50 points more than once (in a scoring inflated environment), finished the playoffs on the 4th line and just got paid 50 million with a NMC. It’s insane.

 

[Dooble08]

It's not really sour grapes, as Philly is my 2nd favourite team. Whatever, all I was saying was it's not a contract I'd be happy with & think it's overpayment. Philly gets a solid 2way #2C and will deal with any cap crunching that might happen down the road.

Soda was great for us last year though, almost put up 50 points in a mostly defensive role. I just hope we can make a trade for a JT Miller/Kadri or buy low on Wennberg or somebody of that ilk.

Wennberg would be a great "buy low" acquisition for you guys. Will turn 25 right before the season starts and you can hope that he goes back to scoring 60 point again.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

This deal literally changes nothing for anybody.

Not sure what to even say to this if you believe that is true. If you think anyone in free agency with numbers comparative or better than Hayes and were looking at a number below or even on par with his AAV. Their asking price just went higher.

 

[Dooble08]

I love this parroting of “2nd line center”. As if all are made equal. He is a low end one who hasn’t cracked 50 points more than once (in a scoring inflated environment), finished the playoffs on the 4th line and just got paid 50 million with a NMC. It’s insane.

As shown earlier in this thread or one of the other ones, he's a middle of the road offensive 2nd line center. In each of the past 3 seasons (not just this one), he's been in the mid 40's for all centers in ES scoring. On top of that he is quite good defensively. So i'd say an average 2nd line center. I mean Duchene is going to get 2-2.5 million more and he's a low end 1c or high end 2c.