Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [April-May 2021 edition]

[JojoTheWhale]

Jo Jo, let's see if players really get a boost out of leaving Buffalo, or maybe they're the reason Buffalo is Buffalo:

Myers #12 - played a little better in Winnipeg, but was also 24 when he got there, didn't play up to his draft slot
Pysyk #23 - never got a chance in BUffalo, marginal 3rd pair guy in Florida, didn't play up to his draft slot
Ennis #26 - no improvement after he left
Grigorenko #12 - hardly played in Buffalo, started at 21 in Colorado but hasn't played up to his draft slot
Zadorov #16 - started one year in Buffalo, didn't really play much better in Colorado, again not up to his draft slot
Fogliono #104 - gradual improvement his first three seasons in Minnesota, but also 26-28 years old, offense was the same, defense improved

The problem seems not in playing for Buffalo, but being drafted by Buffalo.

Sure, many are flat out misses. I never wanted to take on Girgensons or Middlestadt or anything like that. Foligno turned quite good at the end of his Buffalo tenure though. Limited, but damn good.

But there are some good players. I'd like those.

 

[Striiker]

Sure, many are flat out misses. I never wanted to take on Girgensons or Middlestadt or anything like that. Foligno turned quite good at the end of his Buffalo tenure though. Limited, but damn good.

But there are some good players. I'd like those.

Jojo, run

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Jojo, run

I JUST WANT GOOD PLAYERS. I'LL TRADE ANYBODY TO GET BETTER.

If Couturier doesn't want to sign this summer, they really might be screwed without options.

 

[Striiker]

I JUST WANT GOOD PLAYERS. I'LL TRADE ANYBODY TO GET BETTER.

If Couturier doesn't want to sign this summer, they really might be screwed without options.

Jojo you put me in charge of your mental state and I'm telling you that you need to go back to the Quackverse.

You're being an idiot and the world will never change

 

[deadhead]

Sure, many are flat out misses. I never wanted to take on Girgensons or Middlestadt or anything like that. Foligno turned quite good at the end of his Buffalo tenure though. Limited, but damn good.

But there are some good players. I'd like those.

My point is there's no real evidence of a Buffalo boost.

Skinner fell apart in Buffalo, but only after a 40 goal season (his 3 big seasons were all high Sh% years)
Sheary didn't play as well in Buffalo as Pittsburgh, but that's more the "Crosby" effect, he's about the same player in Washington.
ROR was as inconsistent in Colorado as in Buffalo, he had one great season in St Louis, and is now an improved version at 28-29 of the same player he was in Colorado and Buffalo (what you'd expect with maturity). He did get a boost from playing with better talent in St Louis than he had as a 2C in Buffalo.

Eichel played with what top talent they had in Buffalo, so it's not like he's going to suddenly play with much better players when he leaves, ROR probably got a bigger boost in that regard. So beware of projecting some great improvement on a team with "real talent."

Eichel's linemates 2018-2020:

Reinhart 1748
Skinner 949
Olofsson 739
Vesey 206
Sheary 184
Grigenson 105

 

[Rebels57]

Eichel is going to the Rangers if he is going anywhere in the East. NY just fired it’s GM and President because the rebuild was taking too long. That’s an owner that is going to want something to happen no matter the cost of prospects picks and or young players. Philly can’t match a Rangers offer.

The only way Eichel to the Rangers doesn’t happen is if Buffalo doesn’t want to trade him within the conference which means the Flyers would be out too.

Unless New York is willing to move Lafreniere, we can match any offer New York makes. We also have a better 1st rounder in this draft.

 

[renberg]

Unless New York is willing to move Lafreniere, we can match any offer New York makes. We also have a better 1st rounder in this draft.

Rumors earlier this year were Lafreniere, a defenseman, forward, one of the Russian goaltenders and a first.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It was Kakko as the main piece for Eichel & the Rangers scoffed at it apparently.

 

[deadhead]

Rumors earlier this year were Lafreniere, a defenseman, forward, one of the Russian goaltenders and a first.

That sounds more like wishful thinking on the part of Buffalo.

 

[Tripod]

My point is there's no real evidence of a Buffalo boost.

Skinner fell apart in Buffalo, but only after a 40 goal season (his 3 big seasons were all high Sh% years)
Sheary didn't play as well in Buffalo as Pittsburgh, but that's more the "Crosby" effect, he's about the same player in Washington.
ROR was as inconsistent in Colorado as in Buffalo, he had one great season in St Louis, and is now an improved version at 28-29 of the same player he was in Colorado and Buffalo (what you'd expect with maturity). He did get a boost from playing with better talent in St Louis than he had as a 2C in Buffalo.

Eichel played with what top talent they had in Buffalo, so it's not like he's going to suddenly play with much better players when he leaves, ROR probably got a bigger boost in that regard. So beware of projecting some great improvement on a team with "real talent."

Eichel's linemates 2018-2020:

Reinhart 1748
Skinner 949
Olofsson 739
Vesey 206
Sheary 184
Grigenson 105

lol...is that supposed to be an impressive list?

 

[PDX Flyer]

Eichel is going to the Rangers if he is going anywhere in the East. NY just fired it’s GM and President because the rebuild was taking too long. That’s an owner that is going to want something to happen no matter the cost of prospects picks and or young players. Philly can’t match a Rangers offer.

The only way Eichel to the Rangers doesn’t happen is if Buffalo doesn’t want to trade him within the conference which means the Flyers would be out too.

this has to be the worst take i have ever read on this site. Dolan also owns the Knicks. Are you kidding? They got fired for the press release concerning the Wilson incident. Period.

you are obviously not a flyers fan because no one would ever spew that garbage about Dolan

 

[mja]

this has to be the worst take i have ever read on this site.

It’s not even the worst take made on this thread today. We got someone on here who wouldn’t trade Farabee for Eichel straight up.

 

[deadhead]

I'd much prefer to keep Farabee and use Eichel's salary to sign Hamilton.

 

[pit]

Can we move Eichel trades to its own thread where I never need enter and lose IQ points?

We talkin' 'bout prospects here. Prospects!

 

[deadhead]

lol...is that supposed to be an impressive list?

No. It's merely to show that few players have left Buffalo and blossomed.

The myth that you leave a bad team and will be better on a good team should be rejected, even bad teams have a few top players, it's further down the lineup that you play with scrubs. So if you want to bet on a jump, look for a talented player buried on the 3rd line on a bad team.

ROR is the only one I can think of, and in Buffalo he was the 2C so he didn't have great linemates, he played with better players in St Louis.
Eichel at 1C played with top talent, so it's unlikely he's going to have this huge talent upgrade where ever he goes (well, maybe Toronto).

 

[PDX Flyer]

It’s not even the worst take made on this thread today. We got someone on here who wouldn’t trade Farabee for Eichel straight up.

Wtf?

 

[Psuhockey]

They got fired for the press release concerning the Wilson incident. Period.

So the guy whom Adam Silver and rest of the NBA is constantly pressuring him to improve the Knicks to the point of even openly wanting him to sell the team fired his GM and President of hockey operations because Gary Bettman and the NHL leaned on him because of a press release? Bettman must be one really scary dude behind closed doors.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Trade Giroux and Couturier and this team is bottom 5 in the league. If both decide to walk and try and win a cup, Bedard could be possible.

Tank hard for Bedard

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Not sure why the statement that Philly will be a bottom dweller is supposed to scare us. Honestly, it seems like it’s the best option. Sell off all you can, shed the cap room you can, and just stockpile picks and prospects. Hope that when the young d corps and the forwards hit their prime, on inexpensive contracts, you have young prospects on the way to fill out the roster

 

[TheKingPin]

Eichel has paced for 78, 87, and 94 points in a row on a toxic, poorly managed, poorly coached, no depth team that scored the 4th fewest goals in the league in that span. He's a total game changer every time he steps on the ice. What are we even doing right now?

And he’s 24!!!

The Rangers are rumored to want out of their skill and add more grit. They may not want Eichel as much as others think. They don’t have a lot of easily cap imo.

 

[TCTC]

And he’s 24!!!

The Rangers are rumored to want out of their skill and add more grit. They may not want Eichel as much as others think. They don’t have a lot of easily cap imo.

It's the Rangers. They can't resist. A superstar player available for them is like dangling a shiny object in front of a cat.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Not sure why the statement that Philly will be a bottom dweller is supposed to scare us. Honestly, it seems like it’s the best option. Sell off all you can, shed the cap room you can, and just stockpile picks and prospects. Hope that when the young d corps and the forwards hit their prime, on inexpensive contracts, you have young prospects on the way to fill out the roster

I'm all for it. I'm not just in favor of it, I'm rabidly in favor of it.

But we have to learn from our mistakes. We have to fix the back end of the "draft and develop" process - the develop half. We have to have the structure in place - meaning an NHL head coach who can and will work with young players and improve them, and the exact same thing in the AHL working in concert with the NHL side in terms of play style and approach and everything - but even that isn't going to be any good if our mentality isn't in the right place.

The fact that there are approximately 31 dinosaurs running NHL teams isn't a mandate for us to follow suit - we can step off the prehistoric treadmill and forge a new path, or find the modern model that someone somewhere is using with success, even if that isn't in the stale, gross petri dish that is North American hockey.

 

[Psuhockey]

I'm all for it. I'm not just in favor of it, I'm rabidly in favor of it.

But we have to learn from our mistakes. We have to fix the back end of the "draft and develop" process - the develop half. We have to have the structure in place - meaning an NHL head coach who can and will work with young players and improve them, and the exact same thing in the AHL working in concert with the NHL side in terms of play style and approach and everything - but even that isn't going to be any good if our mentality isn't in the right place.

The fact that there are approximately 31 dinosaurs running NHL teams isn't a mandate for us to follow suit - we can step off the prehistoric treadmill and forge a new path, or find the modern model that someone somewhere is using with success, even if that isn't in the stale, gross petri dish that is North American hockey.

I agree with you but none of that can happen until the Flyers hit rockbottom. In that sense keeping the cluster for another season may not be a bad thing if the entire team quits on AV again and Couturier and Giroux walk because of it.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I agree with you but none of that can happen until the Flyers hit rockbottom.

I know. And chances of it happening even then are slim.

 

[Psuhockey]

I know. And chances of it happening even then are slim.

The best, and probably the worst thing about hockey is that it’s primarily a gate driven business so the fans have a disproportional say in the running of the team. If enough fans stop paying the organization has to do something different. I don’t know when enough Flyers fan will abandon ship to make the necessary changes? Will it be after next season? 2 more like this? 5 more? I do think it’s coming though.