Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [April-May 2021 edition]

[Tripod]

Eichel won't get traded for peanuts like you few think. There will be way too many teams wanting to trade for him that will drive the price up. And we should 100% be in the discussion to get him.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Chuck has to look into acquiring Eichel. That should be a given. Figure it out.

 

[mja]

I don’t know why this isn’t a more common thought around here. Eichel will never return what HFers thing he will. Whoever acquired him will essentially steal a top 10 center for peanuts on the dollar. There shouldn’t be any hesitation by the flyers to try and acquire him. Their first rounder is a pretty good starting point. Then take it from there.

A first is a given. Konecny would have to be included from the Flyers' end, just to start to make the cap work. He is an established younger player signed longterm at a reasonable contract. He's the type of player Buffalo is going to need to take in any package they get just to make the cap work for their trading partner. Eichel makes the need for Patrick or Frost to develop into legit 2Cs redundant, so Buffalo can pick one of them. I'd imagine they'd go Frost. Fine. You're still not there but you are probably pretty damn close. You may need to include a dman. Sanheim or York would hurt and I'd personally be very reluctant to include them. Myers or Zamula would be far more preferable options. Doubt they have interest in Ghost, but he'd help make the salary work. Robert Hagg? Dare I dream?

No team is going to part with a Farabee-type budding star on an ELC in a package for Eichel under current circumstances, and the only reason I wonder about Sanheim or York is because the organization seems to have some issues with Trav and York isn't quite established enough to be considered untouchable.

 

[mja]

Eichel won't get traded for peanuts like you few think. There will be way too many teams wanting to trade for him that will drive the price up. And we should 100% be in the discussion to get him.

It's almost a certainty that when the deal happens, to whichever team, there will be palpable indignation at how relatively little value Buffalo gets back for him from fans and media across the league.

 

[Tripod]

It's almost a certainty that when the deal happens, to whichever team, there will be palpable indignation at how relatively little value Buffalo gets back for him from fans and media across the league.

Depends. As you mention above, TK, Sanheim, Frost, +1st....that's pretty good value if TK gets back to 70 point guy. Then if Sanheim is given PP time and starts adding 10+ points on to his yearly total. Frost is the wildcard depending on how he rebounds. But he was voted our best prospect this past fall. The talent is still there.

I could 100% see us wanting Risto as well....so it could be quite the pkg we offer.

 

[TCTC]

I'll be very disappointed if Fletcher doesn't try everything in his power to outbid the Rangers.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I would bet almost no one has an offer like that on the table for Eichel. A youngish top 6F, top 4D, top tier prospect, & a 1st rounder that is.

 

[deadhead]

Why are we trading so many young assets away?
Eichel isn't worth that kind of package, TK and our first should be enough, maybe add a 2nd tier asset.
Remember, most of those trades when 1st rd picks are included, those are picks in the 20s.

 

[TCTC]

Why are we trading so many young assets away?
Eichel isn't worth that kind of package, TK and our first should be enough, maybe add a 2nd tier asset.
Remember, most of those trades when 1st rd picks are included, those are picks in the 20s.

TK + Frost + 1st + 2nd seems more realistic. They'll definitely want a good prospect in that deal.

 

[wankstifier]

I wonder how bad the hernia is. The prognosis could be fine? Just alarming to see any sort of spine issue.

Even if there are health concerns, the upside is too good to pass up. Eichel is an elite 5v5 producer. And, he’s probably been underperforming on the PP, too, since his team is the pits.

 

[mja]

Depends. As you mention above, TK, Sanheim, Frost, +1st....that's pretty good value if TK gets back to 70 point guy. Then if Sanheim is given PP time and starts adding 10+ points on to his yearly total. Frost is the wildcard depending on how he rebounds. But he was voted our best prospect this past fall. The talent is still there.

I could 100% see us wanting Risto as well....so it could be quite the pkg we offer.

Sanheim's a sticking point, and where the value shifts substantially toward Buffalo's favor, but if he's added there'd have to be another piece coming back from Buffalo. Risto just makes too much money for us to acquire without Buffalo taking back an even pricier piece like JVR or Jake, and god am I not anxious to feed him first pairing minutes just because he's a RHD who's toolsy (minus the toolbox) and hits.

 

[mja]

Why are we trading so many young assets away?
Eichel isn't worth that kind of package, TK and our first should be enough, maybe add a 2nd tier asset.
Remember, most of those trades when 1st rd picks are included, those are picks in the 20s.

TK & a 1st ain't landing Eichel, pal. If you could make do just adding Frost to the package, it'd still be robbery.

 

[Striiker]

An offseason where we lose Ghost AND Sanheim AND add Ristolainen?

This D core would be a disaster.

 

[IronMarshal]

In what world is Eichel "not elite?"

Do I even have to guess who said that?

I kind of agree with him as elite skills does not always equal elite player. Would you, or any of us trade Coots even up for Eichel? I wouldn't, despite the age difference. Coots is a better player right now. 5 years from now? Eichel should easily be the better player, but over the next three years, barring injuries, I think Coots will be the better player, the guy who will help the team compete the best. This is not meant to knock Eichel, who is superb talent, but sometimes the whole is not equal to the sum of its parts (in sports at least). I don't think Eichel is a top ten player right now. Does "elite" extend beyond 10 players?
I would love to get Eichel, but Buffalo would have to take a package including Voracek or Hayes (NMC), in return, just to make cap space.
The Rangers could open with Zibby. That is hard to beat.

 

[renberg]

Buffalo will be looking for and getting a package similar to what the Flyers gave up for Lindros-a starting goaltender (Hart), two defensemen (Provorov or Sanheim and York or Myers), A center (Frost), a top winger (TK or Farabee), another forward (Allison or Laczynski) and two number one draft choices. IMO, the Lindros trade cost too much and a trade for Eichel will do the same. Rest assured that if the Flyers don't make such a deal, another club like the Rangers will. I'd just as soon allow it to be the Rags or any other club that would give up that much to get Eichel. Buffalo will want this trade to get them to the promised land.

 

[Rebels57]

I kind of agree with him as elite skills does not always equal elite player. Would you, or any of us trade Coots even up for Eichel? I wouldn't, despite the age difference. Coots is a better player right now. 5 years from now? Eichel should easily be the better player, but over the next three years, barring injuries, I think Coots will be the better player, the guy who will help the team compete the best. This is not meant to knock Eichel, who is superb talent, but sometimes the whole is not equal to the sum of its parts (in sports at least). I don't think Eichel is a top ten player right now. Does "elite" extend beyond 10 players?
I would love to get Eichel, but Buffalo would have to take a package including Voracek or Hayes (NMC), in return, just to make cap space.
The Rangers could open with Zibby. That is hard to beat.

Yes.

 

[Rebels57]

Buffalo will be looking for and getting a package similar to what the Flyers gave up for Lindros-a starting goaltender (Hart), two defensemen (Provorov or Sanheim and York or Myers), A center (Frost), a top winger (TK or Farabee), another forward (Allison or Laczynski) and two number one draft choices. IMO, the Lindros trade cost too much and a trade for Eichel will do the same. Rest assured that if the Flyers don't make such a deal, another club like the Rangers will. I'd just as soon allow it to be the Rags or any other club that would give up that much to get Eichel. Buffalo will want this trade to get them to the promised land.

Lol, no one returns packages like that anymore and neither will Eichel.

 

[Tripod]

Sanheim's a sticking point, and where the value shifts substantially toward Buffalo's favor, but if he's added there'd have to be another piece coming back from Buffalo. Risto just makes too much money for us to acquire without Buffalo taking back an even pricier piece like JVR or Jake, and god am I not anxious to feed him first pairing minutes just because he's a RHD who's toolsy (minus the toolbox) and hits.

From Mgt's POV, we have more than enough LHD.

Provy is their guy
York just showed he is ready
They believe Hagg can be on the 3rd pairing if necessary
Zamula is on the horizon

That leaves Ghost and Sanheim as trade options. They know Ghost's value in a trade....is taking cap back. Sanheim is the asset that has value, is cost controlled(teams can negotiate long term contract), and has untapped upside still.

Again, this is how I think Mgt feels. And given we want a RHD, I 100% can see us trying to get him in exchange for JVR or Jake to make the cap hits all work. And for Buffalo, they get proven 60+ point guys signed for 2 or 3 years so don't have to worry about them fleeing.

That type of deal would not shock me in the slightest.

 

[deadhead]

We're trading a 23 year old 40+ ES scorer for a 24 center who's a 50+ ES scorer, then throwing in #13 (which is probably worth 2 1st rd picks in the 20s). And you want to add a 24 year old top 4 D-man with top 2 potential?

Let's look at "big" trades:
Hall for Az 1st and 3rd and Merkeley (#30-2015, flop), Bahl D (#55-2018), 6-16 Hall for Larsson
2-19 Duchene for 2019 1st, 2020 1st (conditional on resigning), 11-17 Duchene for Bowers (#28-2017), 2018 1st, 2019 3rd
2-19 Stone for Brannstrom, Lindberg (#15-2017) and 2020 2nd
9-18 Karlsson for 2019 2nd, 2020 1st, 2021 2nd (conditional on resigning), Norris (#19-2017), Tierney (40 points scorer at 23), DeMelo
7-18 ROR for 2019 1st, 2021 2nd, Thompson
6-15 Lucic for 2015 1st, Miller and Jones
6-15 Hamilton for 2015 1st, 2015 2nd (2)

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'm one of York's biggest fans, but he just got filled in for three games (sample size noted, but he didn't blow the doors off the AHL either) and they didn't even trust him to be the 4th PKer in a meaningless game for an injured Braun. He's not replacing Sanheim's minutes next season.

An offseason where we lose Ghost AND Sanheim AND add Ristolainen?

This D core would be a disaster.

The thing is, no matter what they do to the blueline next year, the on-ice results (i.e. Goals Against) will improve just by sheer progression to the mean. It's almost impossible to have a repeat of this season's performance.

The narratives are already written though.

 

[deadhead]

Buffalo will be looking for and getting a package similar to what the Flyers gave up for Lindros-a starting goaltender (Hart), two defensemen (Provorov or Sanheim and York or Myers), A center (Frost), a top winger (TK or Farabee), another forward (Allison or Laczynski) and two number one draft choices. IMO, the Lindros trade cost too much and a trade for Eichel will do the same. Rest assured that if the Flyers don't make such a deal, another club like the Rangers will. I'd just as soon allow it to be the Rags or any other club that would give up that much to get Eichel. Buffalo will want this trade to get them to the promised land.

Are you crazy? Lindros was a generational player, his package is what you trade for McDavid, not Eichel. Not in the same ballpark. Those weren't just 1st rd picks, both were #10.
If Lindros doesn't end up with the concussions (and mismanaged due to both ignorance and Clarke's stubbornness), he'd be in the conversation for GOAT after Gretzky.

 

[Tripod]

I'm one of York's biggest fans, but he just got filled in for three games (sample size noted) and they didn't even trust him to be the 4th PKer in a meaningless game for an injured Braun.


The thing is, no matter what they do to the blueline next year, the on-ice results (i.e. Goals Against) will improve just by sheer progression to the mean. It's almost impossible to have a repeat of this season's performance.

The narratives are already written though.

And AV will take the credit

 

[IronMarshal]

Yes.

That might be what it takes to get him, but I am not sure Buffalo would risk the UFA status coming. It would have to be a sign and trade, and I doubt Coots signs without an NMC. After all, Hayes got one.

 

[Striiker]

The thing is, no matter what they do to the blueline next year, the on-ice results (i.e. Goals Against) will improve just by sheer progression to the mean. It's almost impossible to have a repeat of this season's performance.

The narratives are already written though.

For sure.

Merely getting bad NHL quality goaltending alone will make things much better, which would then obviously be attributed to things like AV having more practice time, no COVID, Fletchers offseason, etc.

 

[deadhead]

If they play like spring 2020 all season, AV deserves the credit.

York will be on the 3rd pair next year, they won't give him top 4 minutes until he earns them (climbs the learning curve).

Zamula will start in LHV, but won't finish the season there, watching him in the NHL made me think he's similar to Devonta Smith, some skinny guys just play stronger than their size, Zamula handled NHL physicality without a hitch.

I think we skip the Eichel rush and focus on Hamilton as a FA if he doesn't re-up with Carolina, we can offer a big city, proximity to NYC, and a team on the upswing. If we don't get Hamilton, not sure there's a plan B FA, so they'll have to pursue a trade for a RHD.

Nor will we look for a sniper, with Allison, Frost (who can shoot), Farabee emerging as a star, Foerster no more than a year away, it's not a priority.
More likely, we look to swap forwards to find a better fit - we have too many big "slow" (not speed but quickness) forwards who aren't physical, and that sets a tone up front, so I can see us wanting to replace a veteran with a faster younger forward to balance the front line.

We aren't as physical as the Caps or Bruins or Isles, or as quick as the Devils or Pens. Bad place to be in-between.