Rabid Ranger said:The question I would ask is what does Dion Phaneuf have on Jack Johnson? Experience? IMO, that's about it. They do play a similar style, with Johnson being a bit more dynamic. As for who will be the better of the two, I'll reserve my judgement until I see Johnson play NCAA hockey for a year.
ryz said:I've never seen Johnson play so I can't really compare fairly, but I will say this. If you have seen Dion Phaneuf in person within the last 6 months or so I garauntee you is is substantially more than 200 or 205 lbs. I would put him alot closer to 220 and he says he wants to gain a little bulk before he hits Flames training camp.
Pepper said:Bigger, more physical, higher offensive upside.
At this point, Phaneuf hands down for me.
Rabid Ranger said:Yes, he is bigger, so what? Johnson is two years younger. As for your last two points, care to back that up with anything of substance?
Pepper said:Well have you heard/seen Johnson crushing opponents to the hospital with clean hard checks a la Olesz & Getzlaf? Has Johnson fought guys as tough as Phaneuf has? From the reports I've seen he doesn't do that, he's tough but he's not on Phaneuf's level, not yet atleast.
Offensively Johnson has not shown similar abilities yet, Phaneuf was the leading blueman of team Canada by far (twice as many points as the next) and was a constant threat on PP.
Let's put it this way, Phaneuf has proved quite a lot already, what has Johnson shown so far to make him comparable in the future?
Here we go, we will now have a series of Phaneuf vs Johnson polls for the next 365 days. I can't wait.pavel datsyuk said:I'll take Johnson.
pavel datsyuk said:I have seen Johnson crush opponents as hard as Phaneuf. He's an extremely good bodychecker. Johnson can't fight guys like Phaneuf fights them. In college( i dont know the rules in NTDP) if you fight, you get suspended.
Offensively, you underrate Johnson. He'll be the best offensive defenseman in his draft year, has the most potential at least. Phaneuf also did that being a couple years older, a better comparison would be Phaneuf's 1st WJC.
Johnson is the best player on the ice everytime i see him play. He's just as mean as Phaneuf, just as big, just as good offensively, and a better skater. Johnson plays sort of like Jovonovski does.
I'll take Johnson.
WVpens said:What exactly are you talking about?
DuklaNation said:Ever see Aki berg play? He's bigger than Phaneuf but plays like he's 5'8. Johnson's never faced credible competition in my view yet. Men play in the NHL not boys. And I have seen him play. Looks finesse to me. If he fights in the NHL, he'll get his clock cleaned in a heartbeat. His game will be as a finesse player with some edge.
And the size stats for all US/NCAA players are almost always overstated.
Phaneuf is also bigger than what the stats say and plays in a much tougher WHL.
All I'm trying to say is that Phaneuf's game translates better to the NHL style than Johnson.
Rabid Ranger said:How is this schedule not credible? http://www.usahockey.com/ntdp/18u/main/under_18/
Are you trying to say that top-flite division 1 hockey programs like Michigan, Minnesota, Michigan State, and New Hampshire aren't up to snuff? You do realize that on average a NCAA team is older than a WHL team, right? As for Johnson's "style," you sure don't seem to understand how he plays at all.
DuklaNation said:Just reviewed their schedule. What a joke! That definitely is a weak schedule. Therefore, hsi performance lacks credibility. Why do you think scouts want players in the junior leagues? How he plays in those meaningless games vs college teams doesnt translate to the NHL very well.
At his size, he'll be a finesse player. Check out NHL rosters for defensmen and their various heights & weights. He's smallish in today's NHL. Get over it.
Rabid Ranger said:Get over what, the fact you have no idea what you're talking about? You don't don't anything about the USNTDP or Jack Johnson. Shoot, you probably don't know anything about Dion Phaneuf.
Flames Draft Watcher said:I don't see Brule as being in the same calibre as a Horton or a Staal.
DuklaNation said:Why do you think scouts want players in the junior leagues?
Pepper said:Btw, now that we're talking about this, list me 5 6'1 d-man in the NHL who are really physical.
Rabid Ranger said:How is this schedule not credible? http://www.usahockey.com/ntdp/18u/main/under_18/
Are you trying to say that top-flite division 1 hockey programs like Michigan, Minnesota, Michigan State, and New Hampshire aren't up to snuff? You do realize that on average a NCAA team is older than a WHL team, right? As for Johnson's "style," you sure don't seem to understand how he plays at all.
Pepper said:You know it really makes you look like a bitter person when you keep using that "you don't know what you're talking about" argument everytime someone disagrees with you.
WHL is much more physical than NCAA, a fact. Whereas a 6'1 defenseman can appeart to be relatively physical in that league, it's a whole different thing to be a physical 6'1 d-man in the NHL.
Btw, now that we're talking about this, list me 5 6'1 d-man in the NHL who are really physical.
markov` said:Heights according to hockeydb...
1. Scott Stevens (6'0)
2. Darius Kasparaitis (5'11)
3. Rhett Warrener (6'1)
4. Anton Volchenkov (6'0)
5. Adam Foote (6'1)
6. Brendan Witt (6'1)
7. Garnet Exelby (6'1)
All of them are really physical, and 6'1 or under. There is many more and anyway, Johnson will be more like 6'2.
HabLover said:Don't try to sugercoat the U18 teams schedule! I have never heard of 3/4 of the teams they have played against this year! A few games here and there against some of the better teams doesn't cut it exactly.
There is no doubt JJ has talent and will be a high NHL draft pick, but he is far overhyped on these boards right now and in the past.
Pepper said:Stevens, Kasparaitis, Witt and Foote are all getting old, Stevens probably has 1-2 year at max.
Warrener & Volcnenkov are not REALLY physical, I mean they are not intimidated by physical play and dish out hits but they are not really out there to hurt people.
Exelby is a good example though he most likely will never be more than a 2nd pairing d-man at max.
Btw, Johnson being 6'2 220lbs in 2 years is just wishful thinking, there's a good chance that he won't grow in height at all.