Phaneuf vs Johnson

Status
Not open for further replies.

NYR469

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
5,785
0
Visit site
HabLover said:
Don't try to sugercoat the U18 teams schedule! I have never heard of 3/4 of the teams they have played against this year! A few games here and there against some of the better teams doesn't cut it exactly.

There is no doubt JJ has talent and will be a high NHL draft pick, but he is far overhyped on these boards right now and in the past.

sugercoat nothing...you do understand that the guys on the U18 team aren't in college yet and should be playing in high school but instead are playing against division 1 college's a year or 2 before becoming freshmen...

they play 15 games against division 1 schools, 12 of those games are against teams ranked in the top 30 in the nation by the pairwise ranking. so they are not only playing against college players they are facing the best college teams.

is it as strong as it would be if he was in college full time and playing 40 games against d1 schools like he will next year at michigan?? of course not but you also can't tell me that he isn't facing respectable competition when he has had to face guys like hensick, nystrom, chucko, etc head to head.
 

NYR469

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
5,785
0
Visit site
HabLover said:
Of course if was! Yes, I believe you......... :lol

you should believe it since its true, mocking it doesn't change that. if anyone questions that usa leaves off players for the wrong reasons at times just take a look at robbie schremp.
 

Steve Latin*

Guest
markov` said:
You don't? I certainly do. Bobby Ryan has better stats than Horton in his draft year... Brule's and Ryan's stats are comparable to Staal so the 2005 draft isn't that weak.

And Barker's stats were comparable to Bouwmeester's but Jaybo has a much higher value as a prospect.

There are serious concerns about Ryan's skating that didn't haunt Horton.

S L
 

Beukeboom Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
15,390
1,189
Chicago, IL
Visit site
Pepper said:
Stevens, Kasparaitis, Witt and Foote are all getting old, Stevens probably has 1-2 year at max.

Warrener & Volcnenkov are not REALLY physical, I mean they are not intimidated by physical play and dish out hits but they are not really out there to hurt people.

Exelby is a good example though he most likely will never be more than a 2nd pairing d-man at max.

Btw, Johnson being 6'2 220lbs in 2 years is just wishful thinking, there's a good chance that he won't grow in height at all.

I usually think you make a really good point, but you're just WAY wrong on this issue. The d-man listed are probably among the top hitting defensemen in the league.

Exelby is a max 2nd pairing d-man because he's offensively challenged. It's my understanding that Johnson is the total package, and plays a very physical game. The only issue that I foresee is that guys that play physical like that can have injury issues if they lack the body "density" required to absorb the damage.

If you don't consider Volchenkov an intimidating physical player - who is? If that's the case, there are likely only 2 or 3 guys in the league that you consider "hitters".

And BTW, who is on the ice to hurt people?

Also, why is it so surprising to consider that a guy could add 20 pounds of muscle in 2 years?
 

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
33,375
107
Nashville, TN
www.twitter.com
Mobey said:
This thread is laughable. It's funny to watch two jingoists like Hablover and Pepper, so blatantly fumble over an issue, like two monkeys trying to hump a football, incessantly try and defend Phaneuf to the death. If Johnson and Phaneuf's nationalities were reversed, their positions would do the same.

When are you two numnuts going to realize there are superprospects out there that aren't Canadian??????


Exactly. HabLover enthusiastically jumps into every conversation and makes his dripping hatred of the USA and its prospects known. It doesn't matter if it's Kessel, Johnson, Ryan, Schremp...if it's an American, you can bet HabLover will be there to belittle that player while hyping a Canadian counterpart. If you've been around, you know not to take him seriously at all. Anyone that knows anything can tell that his familiarity with Johnson is nil, and as such his credibility is absolutely zero.
 

bruins4777*

Guest
what an absolutely pathetic thread. The guy asks about comparing the teams in their draft year and it turns into phaneuf fan boys vs. jack johnson defenders.

its amazing when people answer a question about where two players where during their draft year it turns into the player now vs. the player now.

This thread got offtopic about 5 pages ago.
 

Captain Conservative

Registered User
Apr 1, 2004
3,842
1
My Blue Heaven
Greg7 said:
Where Johnson will go compared to where Phaneuf is meaningless. 2003 was an amazing draft year, and 2005 is very weak. Any of Fleury, Staal, Horton, Zherdev, Vanek, Parise, Phaneuf, Coburn, Suter, Carter, Getzlaf, Brown and more could easily go before Johnson if they were in the same draft year.

It's a difficult comparison in any case, because Phaneuf really came on AFTER his draft year, and because his year was so deep, you didn't hear nearly as much about him as Johnson this year. One of the main reasons Johnson gets so much attention is because the top end talent is so thin this year.

Coburn easily go above Johnson? Madness I say.

Heres my view. To answer the original question: I think Johnson is much more hyped in his draft year than Phaneuf was. It wasn't until several months into the 03/04 season that most people started to realize what a genius pick that was. To answer the question that some people have been bickering about: If I had to pick one right now, i'd go with Phaneuf. He is clearly a better d-man as of right now, and as i've said a million times in the past, development isn't guaranteed. I do think Johnson has a higher ceiling though.
 
Last edited:

HabLover

Registered User
Mar 2, 2002
2,482
0
Sandspit
Visit site
HabLover said:
Don't try to sugercoat the U18 teams schedule! I have never heard of 3/4 of the teams they have played against this year! A few games here and there against some of the better teams doesn't cut it exactly.

There is no doubt JJ has talent and will be a high NHL draft pick, but he is far overhyped on these boards right now and in the past.

Did I say that??? OMG, what is this board coming to??

HA HA HA HA HA!! :lol :lol :lol
 

Pepper

Registered User
Aug 30, 2004
14,693
269
Beukeboom Fan said:
And BTW, who is on the ice to hurt people?

Also, why is it so surprising to consider that a guy could add 20 pounds of muscle in 2 years?

There's a difference between trying to hurt an opponent and trying to injure him, lots of players try to do the former but (fortunately) there are not many of the latter.

I wasn't talking about muscle mass which he will most likely increase over the years, I said there's a good chance that he won't grow from his current height of 6'1.

Btw, does anyone know how tall he's in centimeters?? That 6'1 can be anything from 182cm to 186cm
 

VernonForrest

Registered User
Feb 20, 2003
396
98
San Diego
I have seen both of them live during their draft years, Phaneuf at the 03 TPG in Kitchener and several NTDP games throughout the past years for Johnson. Both were and are my favorites of their respective draft class. I had Phaneuf easily in the top 4 his year (based on the CHL talent id seen which was rated so highly), and Johnson I think will be an absolute stud and should probably go #2. Here is how i compare the two during their draft years.

Phaneuf- Absolutely loved him, he hit like a freight train and had a booming shot which made me believe he had terrific upside as a top 4 d-man. I felt his mobility, ability to lead the rush, and offensive instincts would limit him. He was terrific in the few tv games I got to see Red Deer in the playoffs, his shot is very effective. Although I think he has developed into an exceptional prospect I now don't agree with all the hype he is getting. Come on, a World Championship candidate??

Johnson- I would say Phaneuf leads him in the big hitting category, however is equal to him in the rest of the physical department and they are similar defensively. Johnson however blows Phaneuf out of the water with his overall offensive abilities during their draft years, and I would suggest he is ahead of him by a good margin looking at their current levels. Johnson leads the rush as good as any offensive dman available for this years draft and near as good as any prospect out there right now. His shot is also excellent and he sees the ice a lot better from the point than Dion. I think Johnson does have some weaknesses however, he needs to time his hits better which sometimes lead to him being out of position, but that part of it should come with time. In the 2 NCAA games I have seen him in, he looked a lot more reserved about laying his big hits out which sometimes lead to a sure chance for the opposition.

Again this is my opinion, if anyone else has seen these two LIVE during their draft years please feel free to state their cases against what I have said.
 

DuklaNation

Registered User
Aug 26, 2004
5,682
1,544
NYR469 said:
just to make sure i got this straight, you are arguing that playing against 16-20 year olds in juniors better prepare you for playing against men than playing against 18-22 year olds in college. are you serious?

it would be one thing if you were talking about an elite league in europe where guys are 20-30+ years old, but juniors and seniors in college are older and more mature physically than junior players.

and newsflash phaneuf is playing against boys compared to the nhl too

The original post was who would be taken higher in their draft year. Johnson in 05 or Phaneuf in 03. This is projecting their ability in the NHL against men not boys. Given their respective level & style of competition and their physical attributes and playing styles, Phaneuf is more likely to excel in the NHL.
 

Levitate

Registered User
Jul 29, 2004
30,947
7,652
My point was that Stevens, Foote and Kasper are part of the older generation, they came to the league when the average size was much smaller than nowadays. Stevens as 6'1 d-man was pretty big those days, nowadays 6'1 is probably below-average for d-men

this makes no sense...your original question was just to who are 5 guys 6'1 or under that are big hitters. who cares if they are an older generation that was smaller? they're still big hitters...kaspar is one of the most spectacular hitters in the game right now and he's always been at least somewhat small. it doesn't matter what generation they are...what makes a good hitter is the mentality and technique

i think you really started reaching with that excuse
 

Pepper

Registered User
Aug 30, 2004
14,693
269
Levitate said:
this makes no sense...your original question was just to who are 5 guys 6'1 or under that are big hitters. who cares if they are an older generation that was smaller? they're still big hitters...kaspar is one of the most spectacular hitters in the game right now and he's always been at least somewhat small. it doesn't matter what generation they are...what makes a good hitter is the mentality and technique

i think you really started reaching with that excuse

It's not an excuse, just pointing out why most of them are older generation. And Kaspar is far cry from his peak days in the mid-late 90's when he was much more physical.

I'm trying to say that nowadays 6'1 very physical d-men are pretty rare and Johnson is physical in the NCAA which is much less physical than WHL for example.

Johnson could grow to 6'2 220lbs but there's also a good chance that he will remain 6'1.
 

Levitate

Registered User
Jul 29, 2004
30,947
7,652
again i'd say it has a lot more to do with the mentality and technique than it does with size...i wouldn't call hal gill a very physical defenseman

it IS easier for a big guy to be physical if he has the mentality for it...but it's also pretty easy for a guy 6'1, 6'2 to be a good hitter and physical player if he has the mentality and technique for it

if johnson has that, he'll be a physical player in the NHL too
 

Pepper

Registered User
Aug 30, 2004
14,693
269
It's much easier for a 6'3+ player to be very physical than it's to a 6'1 player.

But time will tell in this case, I don't believe Johnson will reach Phaneuf's level which he has raised incredibly since his draft.
 

cagney

cdojdmccjajgejncjaba
Jun 17, 2002
3,817
39
Not that it will impress any of Johnson's doubters but he had a 7 point game tonight in the U18 team's last home game of the year against Toledo.

He now has 41 points in 42 games with 170 PIMs.
 

Jargin

Registered User
Jan 14, 2005
73
0
cagney said:
Not that it will impress any of Johnson's doubters but he had a 7 point game tonight in the U18 team's last home game of the year against Toledo.

He now has 41 points in 42 games with 170 PIMs.


Wow! Thats crazy for a defensman. I'm looking forward to seeing him play... whenever that happens.
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
31,014
11,020
Murica
cagney said:
Not that it will impress any of Johnson's doubters but he had a 7 point game tonight in the U18 team's last home game of the year against Toledo.

He now has 41 points in 42 games with 170 PIMs.


It might be time for a return of the Jack Johnson avatar........... :bow:
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
31,014
11,020
Murica
Captain Conservative said:
I couldn't believe it when we all had our avatars for the WJC's and those dumb bastards didn't even pick him.



Just thinking about it makes me angry. :mad:


We'll have our chance this year.....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->