Rumor: Phaneuf may be in play

[Jtabo]

I didn't make a claim either way.

I provided comparative stats on Phaneuf and Suter and asked you to make a case to back up your claim of Suter being 10x better. I even let you off the hook and only asked that you make a case he is twice as good.

So go ahead.......show some evidence that Suter is twice as good as Phaneuf. It's a fairly simple request.

BTW....you didn't show any stats to back up the other silly claims either. Just sayin.

Suter is a great dman who has had the luxury of good and great partners. Phaneufis a great dman aswell who has had the luxury of inadequate partners since he came to Toronto. Case closed. If Phaneuf got to play with Weber and Brodin he would be regarded as potentially a top 5 dman. And really don't think anyone could have done better than Phaneuf in his situation last year. Maybe Chara, or Weber, but even then it would only be marginally better. Chara and Weber have had the luxury of good d partners as well.

 

[buntek]

I agree. As one who has 'laced them up' at a fairly competitive level, I find that many here who undervalue Phaneuf have obviously never played.

Touche, touche. I'm not a fan of his, but it may be more due to the fact that he's playing a role I don't think he should be. He makes far too many mistakes and I cannot stand watching him miss the net repeatedly on the PP.

I just can't see the Leafs getting another complimentary piece for Phaneuf. If we offer Dion anywhere close to the 6.5 he's making this year, I will not be happy. Everyone on this board seems to think that he would be better suited as a #2/3 dman, and I agree. So why on God's earth would we pay him #1 dman money? Does that make any sense?

I'm not saying we should give him away, but from what media outlets have said, he will not want to take a pay cut. If that's the case, you're okay with signing him for #1 type money?

If one of those teams comes calling, say the Oilers, with their first and a highly touted player and/or prospect, I pull the trigger.

BTW, Andrew Ferrence will be a UFA. Does anyone like him?

 

[The Apologist]

And there are also some of us who have also played at a fairly competitive level, and think Dion is overrated and overpaid for what he does.

I also could be head scout for a NHL team and never played a game in my life, but that certainly doesn't make me any less qualified to speak about Dion, because you have 'laced them up', and I have not.

Get a grip.

Wow, somebody's wound tight. Maybe you should read the post I was replying to. Or I what's good for the goose not also good for the gander in 'overpaid' land?

(Just to offer a little help, I'm not the one who made the claim that hockey knowledge is conditional on playing the game, it was one of your 'overrated' buddies)

 

[The Apologist]

Touche, touche. I'm not a fan of his, but it may be more due to the fact that he's playing a role I don't think he should be. He makes far too many mistakes and I cannot stand watching him miss the net repeatedly on the PP.

I just can't see the Leafs getting another complimentary piece for Phaneuf. If we offer Dion anywhere close to the 6.5 he's making this year, I will not be happy. Everyone on this board seems to think that he would be better suited as a #2/3 dman, and I agree. So why on God's earth would we pay him #1 dman money? Does that make any sense?

I'm not saying we should give him away, but from what media outlets have said, he will not want to take a pay cut. If that's the case, you're okay with signing him for #1 type money?

If one of those teams comes calling, say the Oilers, with their first and a highly touted player and/or prospect, I pull the trigger.

BTW, Andrew Ferrence will be a UFA. Does anyone like him?

I hardly think 'everyone on this board' thinks so. I have no problem with Phaneuf getting 6.5m. I don't believe there is an upgrade available for less, and anything we do get for even that price range will be significantly worse.

If we 'pull the trigger' on that pick and prospect deal, we instantly become significantly worse for several years, hoping that many years down the road one of these players becomes anywhere near as good as Phaneuf currently is.

I am absolutely on with Phaneuf getting #1 money because HE IS ONE.

 

[The Apologist]

Suter is a great dman who has had the luxury of good and great partners. Phaneufis a great dman aswell who has had the luxury of inadequate partners since he came to Toronto. Case closed. If Phaneuf got to play with Weber and Brodin he would be regarded as potentially a top 5 dman. And really don't think anyone could have done better than Phaneuf in his situation last year. Maybe Chara, or Weber, but even then it would only be marginally better. Chara and Weber have had the luxury of good d partners as well.

Chara? Did everybody miss the Stanley Cup finals? He was guilty if everything Phaneuf gets crucified for here! He was a minus -7!! He made a stupid pinch that may very well have cost his team the cup (in omg that was a stupid pinch land)

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Fixed a couple, IMHO. I think Franson may even be better than that in a year or two.

I agree. It's becoming very obvious. Coaches were regularly considering Phaneuf a threat to their top line, not Gunnarsson.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I hardly think 'everyone on this board' thinks so. I have no problem with Phaneuf getting 6.5m. I don't believe there is an upgrade available for less, and anything we do get for even that price range will be significantly worse.

If we 'pull the trigger' on that pick and prospect deal, we instantly become significantly worse for several years, hoping that many years down the road one of these players becomes anywhere near as good as Phaneuf currently is.

I am absolutely on with Phaneuf getting #1 money because HE IS ONE.

I think if we can sign him for $6.5 million, we have a steal. Phaneuf is essentially doing the job of Oduya AND Keith/ Seabrook. The fact that Chicago's shut down D had pretty good offensive performance in the playoffs suggests that we have a pretty dangerous defenceman on other teams.

The fact that he makes us very difficult to play against is why he should be getting an upgrade. Seabrook was paid $7 million (vs. $6.5m) in salary last season, how is Dion even overpaid? While Dion produced 3 points in 7 games while utilized in a heavily defensive role, Seabrook produced 4 points in 23 games. We're seriously overrating defenceman.

 

[egd27]

Chara? Did everybody miss the Stanley Cup finals? He was guilty if everything Phaneuf gets crucified for here! He was a minus -7!! He made a stupid pinch that may very well have cost his team the cup (in omg that was a stupid pinch land)

Funny how you see more mistakes from a player you watch intently for pretty much every game as opposed to a player you watch casually a couple of times a year.

 

[The Apologist]

Funny how you see more mistakes from a player you watch intently for pretty much every game as opposed to a player you watch casually a couple of times a year.

Seems to happen a lot around here

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Suter is a great dman who has had the luxury of good and great partners. Phaneufis a great dman aswell who has had the luxury of inadequate partners since he came to Toronto. Case closed. If Phaneuf got to play with Weber and Brodin he would be regarded as potentially a top 5 dman. And really don't think anyone could have done better than Phaneuf in his situation last year. Maybe Chara, or Weber, but even then it would only be marginally better. Chara and Weber have had the luxury of good d partners as well.

Give Phaneuf a defenceman who can move the puck and his production will skyrocket. If we cannot find a decent partner, we'll probably see Gunnarsson end the shift and be substituted by Gardiner once we establish puck possession in our zone.

The idea that he needs a better defenceman than him is outright ridiculous. Have people not seen how the defenceman that are top 20 offensively play and are utilized? The vast majority have NOTHING to do with shutting down top lines. Teams usually have other pairings for that, and thus we see their top pairing perform better.

 

[FreeBird]

I think if we can sign him for $6.5 million, we have a steal. Phaneuf is essentially doing the job of Oduya AND Keith/ Seabrook. The fact that Chicago's shut down D had pretty good offensive performance in the playoffs suggests that we have a pretty dangerous defenceman on other teams.

The fact that he makes us very difficult to play against is why he should be getting an upgrade. Seabrook was paid $7 million (vs. $6.5m) in salary last season, how is Dion even overpaid? While Dion produced 3 points in 7 games while utilized in a heavily defensive role, Seabrook produced 4 points in 23 games. We're seriously overrating defenceman.

Phaneuf makes more errors in one game than Seabrook does in a season, Seabrook will be in Sochi, Phaneuf will not. Pts mean little in the playoffs preventing them is paramount.

 

[The Apologist]

Phaneuf makes more errors in one game than Seabrook does in a season, Seabrook will be in Sochi, Phaneuf will not. Pts mean little in the playoffs preventing them is paramount.

Phaneuf scores more points in one week than Seabrook does in a season.
You may think points mean little but no team has ever won the cup without scoring a goal.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Phaneuf makes more errors in one game than Seabrook does in a season, Seabrook will be in Sochi, Phaneuf will not. Pts mean little in the playoffs preventing them is paramount.

I dont believe Phaneuf is the future. Fans of Dion can say anything they want. Just like fans of Burke. Say what you want.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Funny how you see more mistakes from a player you watch intently for pretty much every game as opposed to a player you watch casually a couple of times a year.

The same logic can be used against Nick Lidstrom who essentially covered Paul Coffey defensively. His offensive production collapsed in the '93 playoffs against the Leafs. He was a -2 as well, and made several errors.

The Coffey-Lidstrom pairing on paper was one of the best pairings of all time. However, it became rather obvious that even though Coffey is a HOFer, he didn't play much defence at all (-6). By the way, I am not a fan of the +/- metric, but it's being used for illustration purposes. Anyhow, Lidstrom can be made ineffective even elite puck support from their forwards ( Federov/ Yzerman), and HOF-level D may be poor defensively.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I believe the Toronto Maple Leafs would get better by process of elimination. Get rid of Phaneuf and his Norris Trophy contract. He is over-rated, pretends to be tough, chases small guys like Marchand, and dis-appears when tough guys are in the scrum.

*Tough Guys target Phaneuf in scrums, cahllenge him to fight, in those moments the rest of the Maple Leafs see the Leaf captain is afraid, is soft and steals the momentum berating and intimidating him, calling him out and calling him a fake tough guy. OVer-rated and SOFT. Those are the first 2 words that come to mind.

Lets bring our Captian back with Norris Trophy contract who quit in Game 7 because Boston is too tough. HE WAS NOT WILLING TO CHALLENGE LUCIC OR CHARA IN FRONT OF THE NET. HE DISAPPEARED, HE QUIT, HE WAS WILLING TO LOSE INSTEAD OF BATTLING!!!!!!

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Phaneuf makes more errors in one game than Seabrook does in a season, Seabrook will be in Sochi, Phaneuf will not. Pts mean little in the playoffs preventing them is paramount.

Seabrook doesn't normally go up against top lines and in which universe has he been utilized like Phaneuf. Seriously, the herd mentality amongst Phaneuf detractors is getting ridiculous. If you've watched the playoffs, even Duncan Keith was having trouble clearing the puck when up against Boston's top line.

Krecji was simply lecturing him when Boston went up 2-1. That is why when Boston began to initiate their strong forecheck, Hjalmarsson (#4) started his shift. The fact is that Chicago tends to use the Oduya - Hjalmarsson against top pairing, while we use Phaneuf - Gunarsson, and when it comes to producing line matching problems Dion is the man.

 

[buntek]

Phaneuf scores more points in one week than Seabrook does in a season.
You may think points mean little but no team has ever won the cup without scoring a goal.

Genius. You also realize that Phaneuf is not considered an offensive dman right? And you also realize that more than half his points are on the power play right? And that Seabrook does not play the PP right?

 

[Gallagbi]

Genius. You also realize that Phaneuf is not considered an offensive dman right? And you also realize that more than half his points are on the power play right? And that Seabrook does not play the PP right?

You may want to check that again

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Touche, touche. I'm not a fan of his, but it may be more due to the fact that he's playing a role I don't think he should be. He makes far too many mistakes and I cannot stand watching him miss the net repeatedly on the PP.

I just can't see the Leafs getting another complimentary piece for Phaneuf. If we offer Dion anywhere close to the 6.5 he's making this year, I will not be happy. Everyone on this board seems to think that he would be better suited as a #2/3 dman, and I agree. So why on God's earth would we pay him #1 dman money? Does that make any sense?

I'm not saying we should give him away, but from what media outlets have said, he will not want to take a pay cut. If that's the case, you're okay with signing him for #1 type money?

If one of those teams comes calling, say the Oilers, with their first and a highly touted player and/or prospect, I pull the trigger.

BTW, Andrew Ferrence will be a UFA. Does anyone like him?

Amen!

& no.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Genius. You also realize that Phaneuf is not considered an offensive dman right? And you also realize that more than half his points are on the power play right? And that Seabrook does not play the PP right?

I think Dion considers himself an offensive defenseman. He loves to pinch and loves to shoot.

Dont u agree that Dion is kind of given that #1 role on the Maple Leafs? I like Gardiner and Franson wicked snap shot on the #1 PP unit moving forward. I dont believe that Phaneuf offers more than Gardiner and Franson from 2013-14 season moving forward. I want to see those 2 have a bigger role.

Phaneuf is over-paid and worst of all, soft and EASILY INTIMIDATED. The NHL knows it, his team-mates know it, most fans dont see this yet. To me, he quits when things get physical. Boston showed this to me, I was completely embarrassed to witness this.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Matt Carle makes $5.5M but Phanuef is somehow a complete travesty at $6.5M.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Matt Carle makes $5.5M but Phanuef is somehow a complete travesty at $6.5M.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Lecavalier makes the moon, does that mean we should give Bozak the stars? Let the Lightning toil in their own misery and lets focus on how to make the Maple Leafs better.

 

[pucci2001]

Matt Carle makes $5.5M but Phanuef is somehow a complete travesty at $6.5M.

Hey guys, lets compare a crap contract to a crap contract. Bryzgalov's wasnt a bad deal compared to Dipietro's was it?

 

[pspot]

Matt Carle makes $5.5M but Phanuef is somehow a complete travesty at $6.5M.

Matt Carle is overpaid and a horrible contract
try using a good contract like Seabrook at 5.8....thats a well managed team, and it obviously shows

 

[pucci2001]

I think Dion considers himself an offensive defenseman. He loves to pinch and loves to shoot.

Dont u agree that Dion is kind of given that #1 role on the Maple Leafs? I like Gardiner and Franson wicked snap shot on the #1 PP unit moving forward. I dont believe that Phaneuf offers more than Gardiner and Franson from 2013-14 season moving forward. I want to see those 2 have a bigger role.

Phaneuf is over-paid and worst of all, soft and EASILY INTIMIDATED. The NHL knows it, his team-mates know it, most fans dont see this yet. To me, he quits when things get physical. Boston showed this to me, I was completely embarrassed to witness this.

100% Agree. Holy crap, you read my mind. No I am not being sarcastic. Even when Gionta gets in his face he *****es out.