Rumor: Phaneuf may be in play

[ULF_55]

Crosby, malkin, stamkos, giroux, getzlaf.

that's about it.

an even then, we'd have to make another trade to fill the gaping hole on the blueline.

That kind of suggests you believe he is the best defenseman in the league.

 

[jimmycarter]

phanuef is good, just not tough enough.

 

[zeke]

Let's just say that all the guys that usually get ranked ahead of him are much more flawed than people think.

if you think swapping phaneuf for a subban or suter or letang or weber would be a significant upgrade, you're not watching close enough.

 

[Stephen]

phanuef is good, just not tough enough.

Phaneuf is fine. We just need a Gardiner or Rielly to develop into a better number one defenseman over time and we basically have our quality number two.

 

[zeke]

5-10 years ago we had some real studly hall of fame dmen in their prime...lidstrom, chara, pronger, niedermayer.....but there's really nobody at that level right now, and to many people pretend that the current flavor of the year is that good...when they're just not.

none of the younger generation of dmen look like certain hall of famers at this point.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Seemed to be a team issue, not a Phaneuf issue for the GA. He definitely needs some help on the blueline, but that's not unusual. During those high GA years the Leafs had poor overall team defense. Tough to blame Phaneuf for poor systems, lost battles by the winger's at their own blueline and questionable goaltending.

I think that GA has a lot to do with poor puck support from our forwards, a blue line - outside of Phaneuf and Gunnars ( as a #4D) that is weak on their own end, and a shaky goaltender. If we to compare our GA @ 133 to Minnesota @ 127 or Nashville @ 139. Most would argue that Suter - Brodin pairing, for instance, is superior to the Phaneuf - Gunnars pairing so why did they also perform so poor in that department? In fact, if we take in account that the Western conference is lower scoring, I could argue that those so-called elite defenceman don't play much of a rule in reducing GA.

That being said, I think Phaneuf's success can be seen by looking at his defensive statistic. He's taking on the highest competition, largely starts on his zone, doesn't have a partner who can move the puck if utilized in a similar fashion, and yet he's producing around top 10 offensively. That kind of performance usually tells you that he's a type of defenceman that we're better off keeping. There is a reason why Randy didn't play Gardiner even though he is our best puck mover. He had no problem playing Fowler so it's obviously his defensive play.

As for Zeke's comment, I think if we're going to move him for a centre, it'd have to be a legitimate top liner. Stastny - who is more of a second liner offensively - doesn't cut it and won't be improving our defence in the middle as well. Jordan Staal could work, despite lower offensive production, because he'd be provide a lot of defensive support to our core. Ironically, if we moved Phaneuf, we'll see many doing the same to Staal. We're really just better off solidifying our defence vs the Penguin route, because we don't have Crosby/Malkin tandem to relieve pressure against the D core.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Phaneuf is fine. We just need a Gardiner or Rielly to develop into a better number one defenseman over time and we basically have our quality number two.

What annoys me about Gardiner is that while he has mobility, he has atrocious defensive awareness. In an offensive role, he can carry the puck and man the point. On the other hand, when stuck in his zone, even against depth scoring lines, he is usually a spectator. Then again, the fact that he was sheltered is a major reason why he looks solid.

From what I've seen, most offensive defenceman ( even the elite Paul Coffey-types) tend remain offensive. Two-way ability is still not that common and most offensive defenceman in the league are never going to be used against top lines. Instead they'd be heavily sheltered with very offensive zone starts, and usually another defensively-oriented pairing will do all the dirty work.

 

[Diatomic]

What annoys me about Gardiner is that while he has mobility, he has atrocious defensive awareness. In an offensive role, he can carry the puck and man the point. On the other hand, when stuck in his zone, even against depth scoring lines, he is usually a spectator. Then again, the fact that he was sheltered is a major reason why he looks solid.

From what I've seen, most offensive defenceman ( even the elite Paul Coffey-types) tend remain offensive. Two-way ability is still not that common and most offensive defenceman in the league are never going to be used against top lines. Instead they'd be heavily sheltered with very offensive zone starts, and usually another defensively-oriented pairing will do all the dirty work.

Gards shut down that Jagr line pretty darn good in the playoffs, not to mention pinning Jagr on the boards and making the hall of famer turn the puck over constantly.

He's a good defense men and will only get better. Unfortunately young D-men don't learn as much when they're in the pressbox or demolishing kids in the AHL, they need to play in the NHL, and Carlyle stunted Gardiners Development.

 

[Pilky01]

I have no problem with Phanuef possibly being moved. Lupul needs to be given the C someway, and stripping it off Dion while telling him he is getting a pay cut probably won't result in a happy player. Better to move him now while his value might still be high.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Until [Gardiner and Franson] play against other team's 2nd line in their own end and come out on top in a regular basis, neither are anything more than a #4D.

But it is really going to be interesting to see these 2 develop next year.

So who was playing against the Bruin's second line? Liles and O'Byrne?

Or were Phaneuf and Gunnar handling the top two lines themselves?

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

I have no problem with Phanuef possibly being moved. Lupul needs to be given the C someway, and stripping it off Dion while telling him he is getting a pay cut probably won't result in a happy player. Better to move him now while his value might still be high.

The C is important.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

I have no problem with Phanuef possibly being moved. Lupul needs to be given the C someway, and stripping it off Dion while telling him he is getting a pay cut probably won't result in a happy player. Better to move him now while his value might still be high.

GUTLESS! Only in Toronto would a fan base want to strip the C off someone like Dion and put it on injury prone Lupul? Let's talk actual relevant news here instead of throwing out our personal opinions.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

So who was playing against the Bruin's second line? Liles and O'Byrne?

Or were Phaneuf and Gunnar handling the top two lines themselves?

That role was usually split between the two pairings. Franson didn't seem to bad, but Gardiner was being exploited quite heavily by Bergeron. The reason why he looked pretty good against Jagr is due to mobility. He is more limited against faster forwards due to his poor defensive awareness. On the other hand, Franson has good defensive awareness, but poor mobility. That's why their pairing looks so balanced.

 

[Pilky01]

GUTLESS! Only in Toronto would a fan base want to strip the C off someone like Dion and put it on injury prone Lupul? Let's talk actual relevant news here instead of throwing out our personal opinions.

Hey, don't accuse the whole fan base of being anything just based on my opinion. My views are more often than not completely opposite to most Leafs fan's (especially the ones on this board).

Lupul is the emotional leader of this team. Phanuef was rushed into the captaincy by a desperate Brian Burke and his lackey Wilson. But like I said, stripping the C isn't a very easy thing to do. Moving him is a much more tenable solution.

 

[rdawg1234]

5-10 years ago we had some real studly hall of fame dmen in their prime...lidstrom, chara, pronger, niedermayer.....but there's really nobody at that level right now, and to many people pretend that the current flavor of the year is that good...when they're just not.

none of the younger generation of dmen look like certain hall of famers at this point.

hmm tough call, you have Karlsson, but he's no all-around d-man, more of an offensive genius with average defense.

Weber would probably be my pick for the best all-around guy, but he's not exactly on an amazing team.

you dont need a top 5 or even top 10 d-man to win a championship, you need a top pairing guy for sure, IMO phaneuf is very capable, he just needs an actual partner who isn't normally a bottom pairing guy(i.e Holzer) hopefully Rielly becomes that.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

This would leave us needing a 1A & 1B

Huge holes

I can think of a number of forward heavy teams that are lottery pick contenders. A solid back end is a lot more important than a forward core. You build from goaltender, to D core, to the forward core. Since we have a skilled top line ( i.e. playmaker), we ideally need a PWF in the top #1C spot.

 

[ULF_55]

I can think of a number of forward heavy teams that are lottery pick contenders. A solid back end is a lot more important than a forward core. You build from goaltender, to D core, to the forward core. Since we have a skilled top line ( i.e. playmaker), we ideally need a PWF in the top #1C spot.

_______
Kadri
Rielly
Gardiner
Phaneuf
Bernier
Reimer

 

[veedubn1]

Kinda surprised Dion is being run out of town my certain individuals. If he re-signed for 6.5M per I'd be very happy.

Why?

Look what Gonchar and Streit just received from Dallas and NYI and BOTH of those guys are 35+

I would pay Dion the extra 1.5M, no problem.

 

[Jtabo]

Kinda surprised Dion is being run out of town my certain individuals. If he re-signed for 6.5M per I'd be very happy.

Why?

Look what Gonchar and Streit just received from Dallas and NYI and BOTH of those guys are 35+

I would pay Dion the extra 1.5M, no problem.

He deserves a pay bump. The guy is a UFA and has earned it with his play. 8 years and 55-60mil puts him between 6.75 and 7.5. Nothing wrong with paying a top guy what he's worth. You can't have a team full of cheap and underpaid players. Maybe if we win a cup we can ask players to take pay cuts, but Leafs have done nothing the last 10 years that gives them "take a pay cut for us" card.

 

[JoeyBeans]

To be honest when Dion came to Toronto it was one of the happiest days of my life.
But back then I didn't realize he wore canoes for skates.

 

[egd27]

Hey, don't accuse the whole fan base of being anything just based on my opinion. My views are more often than not completely opposite to most Leafs fan's (especially the ones on this board).

Lupul is the emotional leader of this team. Phanuef was rushed into the captaincy by a desperate Brian Burke and his lackey Wilson. But like I said, stripping the C isn't a very easy thing to do. Moving him is a much more tenable solution.[/QUOTE]

Trade Phaneuf so Lupul can become captain? Not a very good idea IMO.

 

[KlattNazty]

Dont understand. Has improved every year on a defence that has been largely of below average quality, and mostly without a goalie that did much, or a forward group that plays strong team defense.

Plays the toughest minutes in the league, an absurd number of minutes to boot, and when he makes the inevitable mistakes because he gets no help he gets crucified.

Does anyone have any idea how bad our defence would look without him?

 

[Jtabo]

Dont understand. Has improved every year on a defence that has been largely of below average quality, and mostly without a goalie that did much, or a forward group that plays strong team defense.

Plays the toughest minutes in the league, an absurd number of minutes to boot, and when he makes the inevitable mistakes because he gets no help he gets crucified.

Does anyone have any idea how bad our defence would look without him?

It would look worse than Colorado's......ok maybe not bad.......but close.

 

[KlattNazty]

It would look worse than Colorado's......ok maybe not bad.......but close.

No it would. Colorado has some guys that are truly decent up front for playing defensive hockey. What do we have besides McClement, a bit of JVR, and Kulemin? Some guys that are very ho-hum in our zone.

Landeskog, Rielly, Statsny, McGinn, Downie, Hejduk are all pretty quality defensively.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Hey, don't accuse the whole fan base of being anything just based on my opinion. My views are more often than not completely opposite to most Leafs fan's (especially the ones on this board).

Lupul is the emotional leader of this team. Phanuef was rushed into the captaincy by a desperate Brian Burke and his lackey Wilson. But like I said, stripping the C isn't a very easy thing to do. Moving him is a much more tenable solution.[/QUOTE]

Trade Phaneuf so Lupul can become captain? Not a very good idea IMO.

Thats not the reason you trade him. You trade him because like Bozak, he was put into a position that is over his head. Crappy management. Good management puts the right people in the right place at the right time. Abbott and Costello (the fat blowhard and his college buddy joke of a coach)....failed to do this multiple times. Now we have a decent defenseman in Phaneuf who was given captaincy and 25+ minutes a game when he deserves neither. We have a undrafted college boy who probably would have been an effective 3rd or 4th line center...way over his head playing first line minutes and as a result padding his resume...making his agent believe he is worth far more than what he deserves.

Thats what crappy management does. Uses resources incorrectly.