Rumor: Phaneuf may be in play

[Gallagbi]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Lecavalier makes the moon, does that mean we should give Bozak the stars? Let the Lightning toil in their own misery and lets focus on how to make the Maple Leafs better.

I consider Phaneuf to be in the 10-15 range for NHL d-man. He's not in the top tier group (which seems to be shrinking over the past 2-4 years), but he's in that next tier IMO. He's the 20th highest paid d-man this year with the 8th highest cap hit.

Seems like he's compensated fairly for the quality of play he brings.

 

[Parkdale]

He is over-rated, pretends to be tough, chases small guys like Marchand, and dis-appears when tough guys are in the scrum.

It's noticeable how he focuses on the smallest guys when he wants to push people around. An exception was the Winnipeg captain who he apparently has a history with going back to juniors.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I believe the Toronto Maple Leafs would get better by process of elimination. Get rid of Phaneuf and his Norris Trophy contract. He is over-rated, pretends to be tough, chases small guys like Marchand, and dis-appears when tough guys are in the scrum.

*Tough Guys target Phaneuf in scrums, cahllenge him to fight, in those moments the rest of the Maple Leafs see the Leaf captain is afraid, is soft and steals the momentum berating and intimidating him, calling him out and calling him a fake tough guy. OVer-rated and SOFT. Those are the first 2 words that come to mind.

Lets bring our Captian back with Norris Trophy contract who quit in Game 7 because Boston is too tough. HE WAS NOT WILLING TO CHALLENGE LUCIC OR CHARA IN FRONT OF THE NET. HE DISAPPEARED, HE QUIT, HE WAS WILLING TO LOSE INSTEAD OF BATTLING!!!!!!

Yet Chara couldn't clear that third liner Bickell from the front of the net.

 

[Gallagbi]

It's noticeable how he focuses on the smallest guys when he wants to push people around. An exception was the Winnipeg captain who he apparently has a history with going back to juniors.

He's also fought Horton (twice), Doan, Hartnell, Colin White and a number of other bigger players in his career.

I'm not sure why people expect him to fight Lucic or Chara when he clearly wouldn't do well. Do they think Toews is a ***** for not challenging either of those two as well?

 

[bleeney]

Funny how you see more mistakes from a player you watch intently for pretty much every game as opposed to a player you watch casually a couple of times a year.

So true.

All Dmen make mistakes. Kris Letang was a train wreck against the Bruins. I watched a lot of that series and he was awful. Chara was dismal in the finals against Chicago. Norris finalist Ryan Suter had zero points in 5 games and was a -5 against the Hawks. On this play, he leaves Andrew Shaw all alone for an easy goal:



He didn't look good on the Hawks OT winner in game one either:



It doesn't mean that these guys aren't all great players; they are. But no Dman this side of Bobby Orr is perfect (and even he made mistakes).

I look at the job Dion does night after night (with little help from his partner) against the likes of Crosby, Nash, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Stall etc, as well as providing the exact same offensive numbers as Shea Weber, and say he's worth the money.

If we're concerned about anybody's cap hit causing a problem, it should be Grabovski's obscene $5.5M.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Genius. You also realize that Phaneuf is not considered an offensive dman right? And you also realize that more than half his points are on the power play right? And that Seabrook does not play the PP right?

Dion can produce ~20 points up against top lines. If that were to increase to 30, he'd producing like an offensive defenceman who goes against softer competition, receives significant PP TOI, and is more likely to start in the offensive zone.

You don't see top liners ending their shift when Karlsson is on the ice. In contrast, I do see that with Phaneuf and instead these lines will target the weaker Gardiner - Franson pairing. That is expected, because that sheltered pairing is an offensive one. In short, for every Paul Coffey ( elite offensive dman), there is a Mark Howe (elite two-way Dman). No one is going to suggest that either don't belong in the HOF, but then again, Karlssson is supposedly ((Orr + Potvin) * 1,000,000.)

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Matt Carle is overpaid and a horrible contract
try using a good contract like Seabrook at 5.8....thats a well managed team, and it obviously shows

You mean the Hawks are a better team than the Lightening?

 

[Duke Silver]

Norris finalist Ryan Suter had zero points in 5 games and was a -5 against the Hawks. On this play, he leaves Andrew Shaw all alone for an easy goal:

[...]

He didn't look good on the Hawks OT winner in game one either:

[...]

It doesn't mean that these guys aren't all great players; they are. But no Dman this side of Bobby Orr is perfect (and even he made mistakes).

Also:

 

[The_Chosen_One]

If you gave Seabrook over $5.8 million ( he did earn $7 million last season), you would have trouble signing the Oduya - Hjaalmarsson pairing. Phaneuf is doing the job of two pairing by being the top shut down and offensive unit. Once Seabrook enters the market he'll be paid a lot more, and I don't think he'd be worth it.

PS: Great videos!

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I consider Phaneuf to be in the 10-15 range for NHL d-man. He's not in the top tier group (which seems to be shrinking over the past 2-4 years), but he's in that next tier IMO. He's the 20th highest paid d-man this year with the 8th highest cap hit.

Seems like he's compensated fairly for the quality of play he brings.

I think he's relied on too heavily. Leafs were only 18th in GA and when you consider how well our bottom pairing defenseman did (Fraser-Franson) in terms of +/- you could make the assumption that Phaneuf played well below average in terms of top-pairing d-men.

You need not look further than 2011/12, 2010/11, 2009/10 to justify this claim as the Leafs finished 26th, 22nd, and 29th in GA each of those years.

 

[The Apologist]

Genius. You also realize that Phaneuf is not considered an offensive dman right? And you also realize that more than half his points are on the power play right? And that Seabrook does not play the PP right?

And yet he finished 9th in defensive scoring. For a non offensive defenseman THAT is impressive.

Are you his agent or something?

 

[Gallagbi]

I think he's relied on too heavily. Leafs were only 18th in GA and when you consider how well our bottom pairing defenseman did (Fraser-Franson) in terms of +/- you could make the assumption that Phaneuf played well below average in terms of top-pairing d-men.

You need not look further than 2011/12, 2010/11, 2009/10 to justify this claim as the Leafs finished 26th, 22nd, and 29th in GA each of those years.

Seemed to be a team issue, not a Phaneuf issue for the GA. He definitely needs some help on the blueline, but that's not unusual. During those high GA years the Leafs had poor overall team defense. Tough to blame Phaneuf for poor systems, lost battles by the winger's at their own blueline and questionable goaltending.

 

[The Apologist]

I think he's relied on too heavily. Leafs were only 18th in GA and when you consider how well our bottom pairing defenseman did (Fraser-Franson) in terms of +/- you could make the assumption that Phaneuf played well below average in terms of top-pairing d-men.

You need not look further than 2011/12, 2010/11, 2009/10 to justify this claim as the Leafs finished 26th, 22nd, and 29th in GA each of those years.

Perhaps if Dion were playing against 3rd/4th liners night in and night out he'd have those 'impressive' numbers Franson and Fraser put eh?
Then again, we'd then have to put Franson and Fraser against the top players in the league. Somehow I don't see that ending well....

Not sure what point you're trying to make with re difference between two years ago and last season?

 

[The Apologist]

Seemed to be a team issue, not a Phaneuf issue for the GA. He definitely needs some help on the blueline, but that's no unusual. During those poor GA years the Leafs had poor overall team defense. Tough to blame Phaneuf for poor systems, lost battles by the winger's at their own blueline and questionable goaltending.

Wasn't Dion the top minute getter or each of those lines, including the most recent season?

 

[Guy Boucher]

Hey guys, lets compare a crap contract to a crap contract. Bryzgalov's wasnt a bad deal compared to Dipietro's was it?

Carle, Bouwmeester, Green, Markov, Wisniewski, Wideman, Streit.

At some point they're not "bad deals". They're called market value.

 

[Gallagbi]

Wasn't Dion the top minute getter or each of those lines, including the most recent season?

He's lead the team in TOI since he arrived.

 

[The Apologist]

He's lead the team in TOI since he arrived.

Again, including last year right?

 

[Gallagbi]

Again, including last year right?

Correct

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Perhaps if Dion were playing against 3rd/4th liners night in and night out he'd have those 'impressive' numbers Franson and Fraser put eh?
Then again, we'd then have to put Franson and Fraser against the top players in the league. Somehow I don't see that ending well....

Not sure what point you're trying to make with re difference between two years ago and last season?

I'm arguing that despite what seemed like an impressive defensive season for the Maple Leafs they were only middle of the pack and Phaneuf, the anchor of that defense, hasn't been exactly noted for leading a team to an impressive GA record to begin with. The Fraser-Franson mentions were only because while the Leafs finally played decent D it was the bottom pairing that played above average relative to the competition they've been required to handle, hence the 'played beyond his capabilities' mention. While I do agree with Eazy - the overall team defense had been atrocious, I don't think Phaneuf made it much better.

 

[The Apologist]

I'm arguing that despite what seemed like an impressive defensive season for the Maple Leafs they were only middle of the pack and Phaneuf, the anchor of that defense, hasn't been exactly noted for leading a team to an impressive GA record to begin with. The Fraser-Franson mentions were only because while the Leafs finally played decent D it was the bottom pairing that played above average relative to the competition they've been required to handle, hence the 'played beyond his capabilities' mention. While I do agree with Eazy - the overall team defense had been atrocious, I don't think Phaneuf made it much better.

Or maybe it's because our 1d continued to play like a 1d but we finally had NhL competent defense on the bottom lines?

Which do you think is a more likely scenario?

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Or maybe it's because our 1d continued to play like a 1d but we finally had NhL competent defense on the bottom lines?

Which do you think is a more likely scenario?

That Dion Phaneuf is a #1D, on the Florida Panthers.

 

[ULF_55]

Why is there any reason to bash Phaneuf if the intent is to trade him to improve the team?

If a team is giving up good asset(s) they'd want good in return.

Phaneuf should be considered a top 20 d-man most years, but that doesn't mean he is untradeable for good or bad reasons.

 

[zeke]

So fricken insane.

we finally get good, and everyone wants to replace all our best players.

mindboggling

 

[ULF_55]

So fricken insane.

we finally get good, and everyone wants to replace all our best players.

mindboggling

So you don't think there is any trade involving Phaneuf that would improve the team?

 

[zeke]

Crosby, malkin, stamkos, giroux, getzlaf.

that's about it.

an even then, we'd have to make another trade to fill the gaping hole on the blueline.