Pettersson vs Matthews

[Halla]

But how? Pettersson looks better, Pettersson performs better this season despite being on a far weaker team as a rookie and Pettersson clearly has more room to improve. That's completely illogical.

pettersson has 1 extra point (assist) in 5 more games played. he also gets nearly a minute and a half more on the PP per game

that isnt performing better

 

[Halla]

this is barzal > matthews part 2

 

[bionic]

this is barzal > matthews part 2

Yep.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Pettersson is even more overrated than Matthews. Matthews is a significantly better player and shouldn’t be losing this poll.

What an awful hot take. Give your head a shake.

 

[Ace of Hades]

pettersson has 1 extra point (assist) in 5 more games played. he also gets nearly a minute and a half more on the PP per game

that isnt performing better

Pettersson has performed better than Matthews. Matthews plays with better PP performers.

Pettersson takes on the brunt of the tough match ups against key defenders, and has gudbranson/pouliot attached to him. The latter is something atleast Matthews doesn't have to worry about.

Even if you think he somehow has not performed better this season (which is highly disagreeable), he's performed better than Matthews has in his rookie season easily.

 

[Ace of Hades]

this is barzal > matthews part 2

Except it isn't.

EP has performed better than Barzal has last season

Barzal played behind an elite center. EP doesn't have that luxury

Clueless ignorant Leaf fans don't even have any single shred of knowledge about the player so they spout this nonsense.

 

[93LEAFS]

Pettersson has performed better than Matthews. Matthews plays with better PP performers.

Pettersson takes on the brunt of the tough match ups against key defenders, and has gudbranson/pouliot attached to him. The latter is something atleast

Even if you think he somehow has not performed better this season (which is highly disagreeable), he's performed better than Matthews has in his rookie season easily.

Except Matthews entered the league in his D+1, and both are late-birthdays.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Except Matthews entered the league in his D+1, and both are late-birthdays.

I'm talking about performance, not age.

 

[93LEAFS]

I'm talking about performance, not age.

Except then it is not a direct comparison. Panarin's rookie year was unreal but he was also significantly older, not making it a like for like comparison.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Except then it is not a direct comparison. Panarin's rookie year was unreal but he was also significantly older, not making it a like for like comparison.

There is not much of an age difference between their respective rookie seasons. Why try to imply that EP is somehow significantly older than Matthews was?

The statement here is that EP has performed his rookie season better than Matthews has

I'd say even say currently EP has performed better than current Matthews has.

 

[93LEAFS]

There is not much of an age difference between their respective rookie seasons. Why try to imply that EP is somehow significantly older than Matthews was?

The statement here is that EP has performed his rookie season better than Matthews has

I'd say even say currently EP has performed better than current Matthews has.

He's 10 months older which is a notable (but not huge) difference at that age. It's comparable to Matthews sophomore year. That year Matthews was one of the best 5v5 producers in the league on a per 60 basis (and yes, I know Pettersson is doing that now).

I disagree that he has. Let's see what happens when his shooting numbers start to somewhat normalize. No player holds a shooting percentage over 20% long-term.

 

[Ace of Hades]

He's 10 months older which is a notable (but not huge) difference at that age. It's comparable to Matthews sophomore year. That year Matthews was one of the best 5v5 producers in the league on a per 60 basis (and yes, I know Pettersson is doing that now).

I disagree that he has. Let's see what happens when his shooting numbers start to somewhat normalize. No player holds a shooting percentage over 20% long-term.

Disagree. As long as it doesn't push over a year or two in respective ages, their rookie seasons can be compared.

He'll still perform around that pace because just from watching the kid play, he has elite tools and is very talented. Besides that argument has been countered with many times.

 

[93LEAFS]

Disagree. As long as it doesn't push over a year or two in respective ages, their rookie seasons can be compared.

He'll still perform around that pace because just from watching the kid play, he has elite tools and is very talented. Besides that argument has been countered with many times.

I heard the same thing with Laine shooting over 20% as a rookie. I'll believe a player can shoot over 20% long-term when I see it hold for over 130 games. I don't think I've ever seen someone effectively counter the shoot over 20% thing many times despite how many times it has been attempted. Obviously, he's talented. But, I don't think he'll beat the norms other elite shooters shoot at, which is in the 15% to 18% range.

Also, you should probably realize, Pettersson doesn't take tougher match-ups than Matthews if you actually looked at the usage stats that matter when it comes to that stuff (zone-starts and QoC TOI%).

 

[CP4]

I heard the same thing with Laine shooting over 20% as a rookie. I'll believe a player can shoot over 20% long-term when I see it hold for over 130 games. I don't think I've ever seen someone effectively counter the shoot over 20% thing many times despite how many times it has been attempted. Obviously, he's talented. But, I don't think he'll beat the norms other elite shooters shoot at, which is in the 15% to 18% range.

Also, you should probably realize, Pettersson doesn't take tougher match-ups than Matthews if you actually looked at the usage stats that matter when it comes to that stuff (zone-starts and QoC TOI%).

Here comes the shooting % argument again. Does anyone have any worthwhile stats to discredit Pettersson? I only ever hear about shooting % which everyone is all very aware of.

 

[SteelerNation]

LOL Leaf fans are so salty that EP is better. This poll isn’t even close.
The only argument I see is shooting percentage , poor Hidden Hair of Hynes spends hours of his day arguing against this.
Shooting percentage is the hill you guys want to die on? Hockey fans are so pathetic sometimes, go watch a sport with real analytics like baseball if you’re gonna cry about shooting percentage.
Look at the results, AINEC

 

[bionic]

Pettersson has performed better than Matthews. Matthews plays with better PP performers.

Pettersson takes on the brunt of the tough match ups against key defenders, and has gudbranson/pouliot attached to him. The latter is something atleast Matthews doesn't have to worry about.

Even if you think he somehow has not performed better this season (which is highly disagreeable), he's performed better than Matthews has in his rookie season easily.

The weird twist is that the Leafs PP has been awful this year. In fact I think both Pettersson and Matthews both have 14 points on the PP this year so it's not really an advantage for Matthews.
Matthews also plays over a min less a game then Pettersson.
Also Matthews linemates have been a mostly Kapps and Marleau. Good players but it's not like Pettersson plays with defensive players.
All this and Pettersson has 1point more then Matthews in 5 more games. Hardly a reason to claim that Pettersson is out playing Matthews .

 

[Ainec]

Kapanen + supporting cast of Rielly Marner Tavares Nylander Johnsson (who's playing with Matthews) >> Boeser

 

[koyvoo]

Just a Quinn Hughes, if he develops as projected would make a world of difference in making Pettersson’s production easier to come by.

Or if there was another line on his team with the talent and production of a Marner/Tavares combo to divide opponents attention in defending him alone would be a huge boost.

 

[WestCoastFinnie]

All of you are insecure. That said, Petey gets my vote.

 

[Panthaz89]

Here comes the shooting % argument again. Does anyone have any worthwhile stats to discredit Pettersson? I only ever hear about shooting % which everyone is all very aware of.

you mean the same argument made against William Karlsson a season ago that has definitely leveled out this season? Petterson's is like 5% higher than his stupid high % a year ago....it simply isn't going to last. Just like ridiculously low shooting pcts for some players at the start of the season started to even out as the season went on.

 

[koyvoo]

you mean the same argument made against William Karlsson a season ago that has definitely leveled out this season? Petterson's is like 5% higher than his stupid high % a year ago....it simply isn't going to last. Just like ridiculously low shooting pcts for some players at the start of the season started to even out as the season went on.

The shooting percentage will obviously normalize, but to compare W Karlsson with one of the most gifted players in the entire league is not a good one.

 

[CP4]

you mean the same argument made against William Karlsson a season ago that has definitely leveled out this season? Petterson's is like 5% higher than his stupid high % a year ago....it simply isn't going to last. Just like ridiculously low shooting pcts for some players at the start of the season started to even out as the season went on.

Like I said, no one is saying that his shot % won't regress. It obviously will, but it seems as though that is his only knock against him so far. Shooting % regression is something every single player in the NHL has gone through though, so Im not sure how that even discredits Pettersson well enough. People need something else to go on. Also using W Karlsson as an example is a really bad one.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

How is Matthews getting far more support? He played with Marluea and Kapapen/johnson/brown the majority of the season.. Doesn't Petterson play with Boeser?

Matthews has never needed Marner to get going and the fact that they have played an extremely low amount of time together proves that, They were only together for a couple games because the entire team's offense wasn't working and quickly removed. If Babcock stacked the lines with Matthews/Marner and played him 3:50 minutes a game on the powerplay like Petterson gets compared to his 2:26 minutes I wonder how things change?

It's funny all I hear is how much more "support" Matthews is getting but he doesn't even seem to play with better line mates and he plays for Babcock a coach who doesn't ever just gift a player 4 mins a game of PP time like Petterson is getting. Matthews just doesn't get those top Powerplay minutes compared to other top scorers, Babcock just doesn't operate like that but imagine his stats compared to Petterson if Matthews had a coach who supported him like Petterson does?

I've seen a few people question the "better support" story Re: EP vs. Matthews. It's not just about linemates (though EP missed Boeser a bunch of his games and still produced like crazy). When your team has other lines that are a major threat to score, that also counts as "better support". Defensive effort on other teams has to be spread around in scenarios like that. The Top 9 forwards between the Canucks and Leafs are night and day - and congrats to Leafs fans for having such a strong roster. EP is producing incredibly well while being the major offensive threat that other teams can really focus their D efforts towards. That is a big difference.

For the record: I voted "Too close to call". But I'm hopeful the Canucks can build up their roster and we can see what EP can do with more experience and more fire power down the line-up.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

Last year people were saying Barzal was the much better player then Matthews. Now in 15 less games matthews is leading him in points this year.
Thing is Players sometimes come in like gang busters but it gets harder in this league to keep it up. Pettersson is an awesome player, as is Barzal. Lets give him a couple of years to see how he handles the grind.

Who played on a different line from Barzal last year and drew a lot of defensive attention? Where does that guy play now?

Having significant offensive threats on different lines, splitting the other team's defensive focus, can influence how many points a player can generate. That's part of what makes EP so significant this year: he's had Boeser to play with in a little over half the games he's played and outside of Horvat, the Canucks don't have anyone who is a decent threat to score. Teams are keying in hard on EP and he is still making magic out there.

 

[bionic]

Who played on a different line from Barzal last year and drew a lot of defensive attention? Where does that guy play now?

Having significant offensive threats on different lines, splitting the other team's defensive focus, can influence how many points a player can generate. That's part of what makes EP so significant this year: he's had Boeser to play with in a little over half the games he's played and outside of Horvat, the Canucks don't have anyone who is a decent threat to score. Teams are keying in hard on EP and he is still making magic out there.

In Matthews first year in the league he scored 40 goals while drawing the most attention and playing with two rookies. Ever since then Matthews has drawn the most attention from opposition teams. The arrival of Tavares has not changed that fact