Speculation: Peter Horachek

[zeroG]

To be fair, you just proved the guy's point.

It's a subjective discussion.

Zero, by definition, each one of your elements are subjective. To my point you and I could disagree on every single one.

The only thing irrefutable is wins and losses.

And the losses are tragically piling up.

it's not as subjective as either of you are suggesting but i'll grant you there is some leeway. subjectivity associated with judgments such as this have an inverse correlation with experience. make no mistake, people inside the game (tallon, for example) know when a team *should* be competing and playing with structure and isn't.

what we're watching now is a bunch of young guys being thrown together from different development systems, at different levels of development, etc. with no time to learn each other's tendencies or the overall scheme. this is garbage time. you would expect that a good coach would get any group to play with some cohesion given some time but it's just silly to expect that right now.

i'm on record with regard to our former coaches. as a reminder, i've said that dineen won't ever be a successful head coach in the NHL. i don't think he'll ever get another opportunity period, but you never know with garth snow out there. he's certainly way beneath any of the retreads out there and any of the up and comings in any GM's eyes. in any event, he won't ever inherit a winning situation or a situation that can be turned around with coaching. why do i say these things? i'm making less subjective judgments than you think. (perhaps it helps that i'm also not emotionally invested in the team's day to day Ws and Ls... at least not right now). i know many of you feel *very* differently. let's see how things turn out but as a teaser, if there's no semblance of objectivity in any of the measures i've proffered and i'm right... what happened?

 

[adam graves]

Dave Tippett is the best coach in the league IMO. Also a big shoutout to Sean Burke, who's probably the best goalie coach in the league (look what he got out of Smith and Bryz)

Very impressive job by Tippett. Last night I was so bored at the game watching our poorly coached team, I focused instead on the yotes. They moved like one piece. THEIR definition of structure a term loosely thrown around here.

If we truly are ( and I'll believe it when I see it) going to bring experienced successful players down here than we owe it to them to have an experienced Head Coach Who can run a team like the opposition did last night.

 

[ShootIt]

It would be so nice to have a coach like Tippett or anyone near his level.

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

Friedman's 30 thoughts mentioned John Stevens was in the running for 'Nucks coach. What is the read on him?

 

[IceManCat]

Very impressive job by Tippett. Last night I was so bored at the game watching our poorly coached team, I focused instead on the yotes. They moved like one piece. THEIR definition of structure a term loosely thrown around here.

If we truly are ( and I'll believe it when I see it) going to bring experienced successful players down here than we owe it to them to have an experienced Head Coach Who can run a team like the opposition did last night.

A couple of birdies have been floating the idea that this might be the end of the road for Barry Trotz in Nashville. If thats the case you gotta hand a guy like that a blank check and tell him to fill it out.

 

[coopdaloop123]

Wouldn't mind taking a shot on a lesser-known coach w/ some new ideas if there isn't a big name that fits this offseason.

 

[adam graves]

Sometimes other team fans put it in best perspective, from the Yotes Board gdt:

"This Florida team is what our group would look like without Dave Tippett"

and now this post on OUR GDT

Just an outside perspective here (Coyote fan), but I understand what you guys are going through. I have to say that the Panthers had zero structure to their game, to the point where even our announcers found it a little shocking. Just not a very well coached team. Maybe at this point in the year it's by design, but I would look at getting someone as respectable as Tallon in there behind the bench before questioning young players.

I mean, down late in the game during a timeout, Horacek was still leaning against the back of the bench, dictating what he wanted his players to do. No attempt to draw up a play. Just looked like a group totally out of it.

Bad to nonexistent coaching can make everyone look bad. Keep that in mind as you play out the string, because you've got a nice young core that's worth sticking with.

 

[pantherbot]

our absolutely disgusting power play is enough to question whether horacheck should be a head coach. i have no idea why flash was continuously used on the point, it was just maddening watching that impotent power play try the same thing over and over and over again to no effect.

i understand our talent was/is lacking...but come on, try something new after the 50th time it doesn't work...

worst power play % ever? 9.35%. Our current power play effectiveness? 9.8%...

 

[ShootIt]

I don't understand why Flash is still playing the point?

It's not like he was ever good there before...

I'm starting to wonder if the team played better just because Dineen left, and not because of Horachek's "system".

 

[MintyFresh88]

I would agree about there being a lack of a system/structure to the Panthers game. Really, what has Horachek brought to the table other than preaching about defensive responsibility and playing for 60 minutes? Nothing from what I can tell. At least Dineen showed some signs of being able to be creative, especially with Garrison in year 1.

As others have said, Horachek seems to be an assistant coach right now. I'd rather bring someone else in.

 

[MintyFresh88]

I don't understand why Flash is still playing the point?

It's not like he was ever good there before...

I'm starting to wonder if the team played better just because Dineen left, and not because of Horachek's "system".

This is mind boggling to me. He must have tried it for about 10-15 games and it CLEARLY wasn't working.

So he drops it for about 5-10 games, then goes back to it?????? Guess what, it still doesn't work. He can't keep the puck in, he can't hit the net and he can't make a pass most of the time. Plus it leaves us vulnerable to shorthanded chances.

This is the NHL. I don't understand how this crap can continue to happen. It's embarassing.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

would everyone be ok with trotz conservative style and defense first approach?

 

[MintyFresh88]

would everyone be ok with trotz conservative style and defense first approach?

I'm ok with anything that results in a win.

 

[FlaPnthrsPunk]

I'm ok with anything that results in a win.

This. I don't care if we play the most boring trap-style hockey in the world. If it wins us a Stanley Cup, I'm all for it.

 

[Coach Nate]

Wouldn't mind taking a shot on a lesser-known coach w/ some new ideas if there isn't a big name that fits this offseason.

Jeff Blashill

How this guy doesn't have an NHL job yet is baffling.

 

[zeroG]

Very impressive job by Tippett. Last night I was so bored at the game watching our poorly coached team, I focused instead on the yotes. They moved like one piece. THEIR definition of structure a term loosely thrown around here.

If we truly are ( and I'll believe it when I see it) going to bring experienced successful players down here than we owe it to them to have an experienced Head Coach Who can run a team like the opposition did last night.

so, according to your expert eyes, we were a well oiled machine under dineen. and now we are poorly coached. what about that stretch when horachek had a healthy lineup and wasn't throwing out a different group of mostly AHLers every night?

i understand precisely what it is that i'm saying when i say structure. if you want to discuss further, feel free.

Sometimes other team fans put it in best perspective, from the Yotes Board gdt:

"This Florida team is what our group would look like without Dave Tippett"

and now this post on OUR GDT

Just an outside perspective here (Coyote fan), but I understand what you guys are going through. I have to say that the Panthers had zero structure to their game, to the point where even our announcers found it a little shocking. Just not a very well coached team. Maybe at this point in the year it's by design, but I would look at getting someone as respectable as Tallon in there behind the bench before questioning young players.

I mean, down late in the game during a timeout, Horacek was still leaning against the back of the bench, dictating what he wanted his players to do. No attempt to draw up a play. Just looked like a group totally out of it.

Bad to nonexistent coaching can make everyone look bad. Keep that in mind as you play out the string, because you've got a nice young core that's worth sticking with.

first of all, as mentioned above, you are watching a constantly-changing lineup of mostly kids, many of whom have never played under horachek and are not accustomed to the speed of the NHL game.

fans, even those who post on hfboards, are not necessarily in touch with what's involved in coaching hockey. comments like the one above betray that naiveté.

but continue on with your attempt to discredit horachek. i still believe he will stick around and the further you go, the sillier you'll look if/when he's here next year and the team is playing well.

 

[ShootIt]

This. I don't care if we play the most boring trap-style hockey in the world. If it wins us a Stanley Cup, I'm all for it.

+1
I don't care if we win 2-1, 3-2 games. I just want these games in March to count.

 

[adam graves]

so, according to your expert eyes, we were a well oiled machine under dineen. and now we are poorly coached. what about that stretch when horachek had a healthy lineup and wasn't throwing out a different group of mostly AHLers every night?

i understand precisely what it is that i'm saying when i say structure. if you want to discuss further, feel free.


first of all, as mentioned above, you are watching a constantly-changing lineup of mostly kids, many of whom have never played under horachek and are not accustomed to the speed of the NHL game.

fans, even those who post on hfboards, are not necessarily in touch with what's involved in coaching hockey. comments like the one above betray that naiveté.

but continue on with your attempt to discredit horachek. i still believe he will stick around and the further you go, the sillier you'll look if/when he's here next year and the team is playing well.

ROFL

I foolishly unlock you from my ignore list and try some mature dialogue,. And you return to your childish pompous attack fashion. My mistake.

We all know you don't attend games and hardly watch them and come on here with a holyier than thou attitude feigning knowledge you clearly lack. Ill just say my opinion is based on ATTENDING almost every single home game the last almost 20 years. Regardless, this is an opinion board, so all are entitled to theirs and NOONE is entitled to dismiss others.

So continue with your fanboy posts and pretending you know more than others do and enjoy cause your back on my ignore and you can entertain those who wish to be so inclined.

 

[adam graves]

+1
I don't care if we win 2-1, 3-2 games. I just want these games in March to count.

Give me the Devils last 20 years and Ill give you ultimate bliss.

 

[zeroG]

I don't understand why Flash is still playing the point?

It's not like he was ever good there before...

I'm starting to wonder if the team played better just because Dineen left, and not because of Horachek's "system".

I would agree about there being a lack of a system/structure to the Panthers game. Really, what has Horachek brought to the table other than preaching about defensive responsibility and playing for 60 minutes? Nothing from what I can tell. At least Dineen showed some signs of being able to be creative, especially with Garrison in year 1.

As others have said, Horachek seems to be an assistant coach right now. I'd rather bring someone else in.

i doubt that was dineen's idea in the first place but... putting a defenseman with a huge shot at the top of your PP is creative?

anyway, how is it that nobody but a few acknowledge the obvious reasons for the drop off in play?

 

[zeroG]

ROFL

I foolishly unlock you from my ignore list and try some mature dialogue,. And you return to your childish pompous attack fashion. My mistake.

We all know you don't attend games and hardly watch them and come on here with a holyier than thou attitude feigning knowledge you clearly lack. Ill just say my opinion is based on ATTENDING almost every single home game the last almost 20 years. Regardless, this is an opinion board, so all are entitled to theirs and NOONE is entitled to dismiss others.

So continue with your fanboy posts and pretending you know more than others do and enjoy cause your back on my ignore and you can entertain those who wish to be so inclined.

mature.

i don't care how many games you attend. one doesn't have to attend or even watch every game to discern patterns. what you seem to be saying that this team, which has been pretty much in disarray since dineen arrived, somehow got it together and started playing together (mysteriously, because dineen was fired?) and now has fallen back apart because ... well, i guess there was never really any basis for their cohesion. hmm. couldn't be another explanation, could there be? like, oh, the injuries and a constantly rotating group of forwards and Dmen, many of whom have not played much if at all at this level? nah, that couldn't be it. apparently it's holier than thou to point this information out.

 

[Android 16]

As our roster grows younger and younger. We need an old dog to keep all these kids in line. But, not someone who is not over the hill and easily ignored by the players. We already have Madden as an assistant who can directly relate to the players. We need a coach who sees our identity as a team and knows how to develop and implement an effective strategy night in and night out.

 

[IceManCat]

so, according to your expert eyes, we were a well oiled machine under dineen. and now we are poorly coached. what about that stretch when horachek had a healthy lineup and wasn't throwing out a different group of mostly AHLers every night?

.

Horacheck has had a healthy lineup for most of his tenure here until recently. unlike Dineen who had to deal with an injury plagued lineup all of last year. Horacheck is a decent coach but his inability to adjust with this roster is troublesome. We give up far to many odd man rushes per game, and like AG said lack serious structure.

 

[pantherbot]

mature.

i don't care how many games you attend. one doesn't have to attend or even watch every game to discern patterns. what you seem to be saying that this team, which has been pretty much in disarray since dineen arrived, somehow got it together and started playing together (mysteriously, because dineen was fired?) and now has fallen back apart because ... well, i guess there was never really any basis for their cohesion. hmm. couldn't be another explanation, could there be? like, oh, the injuries and a constantly rotating group of forwards and Dmen, many of whom have not played much if at all at this level? nah, that couldn't be it. apparently it's holier than thou to point this information out.

wait...let me get this straight, you're trying to say that horachek's panthers are playing bad and without structure because of injuries, but then when it comes to evaluating dineen's teams, you ignore the fact that they were amongst the league leaders in man games lost...??? right...

look i wasn't a dineen fan either, especially towards the end, but it's not like horachek's teams have been great. aside from a handful of games at the beginning of his tenure, he hasn't done much. not to mention the power play is so terrible that when we actually do score on the pp i'm shocked and it's more often than not just dumb luck.

if you actually watched the games, you would see that this team is not much different under dineen or horachek. but i guess since you don't actually watch the games i can't really blame you for not noticing.

 

[Aksu]

I liked PH, he did get our sucky team to play better when he came.
But his PP, PK, and D-pairings have made me not like him as much as I would want.
I would be okay with getting a new coach if the coach can actually get our PP better, make smarter pairings, and what I most want is that I want a coach to tell the guys on the PK to take away the space and pressure the opponent's PP players, our guys now just stand there in the square formation. If you watch other team's PK, they always take the space away