Speculation: Peter Horachek

[angry_treefrog]

Heard something about Nolan being pissed with Buffalo's management... if this became an option, i'd like to jump on it.

Either way, I don't like Horachek. I don't blame him for this mess, but something about him just doesn't sit right with me.

Too much drama with that one.

He's too much like Keenan in that he is effective for a stretch but comes with a short expiration date.

I'd pass.

 

[ProjectPanthers]

As much as I've enjoyed Horachek overall, he hasn't done enough to earn the full-time gig.

He still has room to grow as a coach, and I would slot him back to the AHL and let him get more experience. Our PP has been atrocious and he doesn't make changes when it's obvious they are needed.

I still wish we picked up Lindy Ruff during the off-season but who saw the Dineen debacle coming?

There really isn't anyone else I want out there, which is a bit alarming. Kinda like Boucher, maybe even bring Crawford back into coaching (but I don't know tbh).

Still would love to poach Larry Robinson from San Jose but apparently he's happy there and doesn't want to be a HC again.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Heard something about Nolan being pissed with Buffalo's management... if this became an option, i'd like to jump on it.

Nolan will be fired after this season I think. The drama was LaFontaine and Nolan wanted to try and get Miller resigned and attempt make a quick return to competitiveness, while the new GM Murray wanted a 5 year rebuild (i.e trade Miller). As you can see from the events of last week, Murray got his wish, LaFontaine threw a hissy fit and left, and Nolan had to be convinced to finish out the season.

Too much drama with that one.

He's too much like Keenan in that he is effective for a stretch but comes with a short expiration date.

I'd pass.

I agree, I think even if the Hasek's wife rumours are untrue, his fighting with the Islanders and Sabres management warrant a pass. But he is an excellent coach.

 

[zeroG]

I think Horachek is done as HC but might stay as assistant. Viola def wants his own guy.
Last I want is Torts. Either Boucher or Maurice IMO.

viola? viola's the owner, first of all and should have very little, if any, input on hockey matters. second, horacheck is tallon and santos' guy - they brought him in to SA knowing they'd likely be canning dineen.

Well, the loss of Barkov and basically not having a good team in the first place will put you in the standings where we are right now. I don't see how things would have been much different with any other coach.

Also I'd like to see what kind of additions they will get in the summer before saying they are in a win mode. The UFA crop is so thin, who knows what they will be able to add.

Anyway my point is this team has much bigger issue than the HC at the moment. IMO.

you're right. win now is not the correct mindset. we're escalating the building process. also agree that there are much bigger issues in terms of personnel at the moment.

Horachek's powerplay pretty much torpedoes any realistic chance of his returning next year.

don't agree. "his" power play (not sure who technically has responsibility) isn't different than the rest of the league's. same as it was before too. basic 1-3-1. guys just aren't making plays. he came in to complete disarray and had a lot to work on. i'm sure he thought "we'll just keep those units together while revamping everything else and things will work themselves out". there just not that much time to work on stuff during the season and, frankly, there's not that much to work on - maybe you work on a few plays over the course of the season but these guys are all pros and they know the formation.

for the "no rookie" crowd - horachek's not a rookie in any real sense, having spent years behind an NHL bench. he's learned about a lot of important intangibles from a very successful coach.

and whoever said they want a more offensive coach.... oy! we certainly don't have the personnel now and there's no way that much is going to change in the next couple of years. what we need is a coach who can get a group of guys to play with some structure and compete every night. i think horacheck can do that.

in my opinion, these last few weeks are critical for horachek. he's done enough in my book to warrant a deal; he's articulate, has the right focus (structure and building a winning culture) and the team has continued to compete for him, even though the Ws have dropped off a bit. if the team ends on a nice ~.500 stretch, i think that'll make it easy for tallon to re-up horachek, which is what i think he'd like to do. if the wheels fall off, things get more interesting. i'd say it's still horachek's job to lose.

 

[BeezKnees]

Anyone else like Scottie Arniel? I think we need a guy who knows offense/can fix our ****ing awful powerplay.

I also wouldn't mind Guy Boucher. Power of the scar.

 

[angry_treefrog]

don't agree. "his" power play (not sure who technically has responsibility) isn't different than the rest of the league's. same as it was before too. basic 1-3-1. guys just aren't making plays. he came in to complete disarray and had a lot to work on. i'm sure he thought "we'll just keep those units together while revamping everything else and things will work themselves out". there just not that much time to work on stuff during the season and, frankly, there's not that much to work on - maybe you work on a few plays over the course of the season but these guys are all pros and they know the formation.

I get what you are saying and do not disagree, but it doesn't really matter.

Coaches are not judged on what they do but the results they get.

Under Horachek the Panthers and Rampage both have had abysmal power plays. The fact that he cannot get them to improve (fairly or unfairly) is an indictment in a brutal, results-oriented business.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I really don't want Horachek back, but the fact that DT mentioned that part of the reason they aquired Ellis was how much Horachek liked him in Nashville makes me thing he's back next year.

 

[RogerRoger]

I really don't want Horachek back, but the fact that DT mentioned that part of the reason they aquired Ellis was how much Horachek liked him in Nashville makes me thing he's back next year.

As a defensive coach I wouldn't mind him. If he remains HC, I hope they at lest bring one new assistant that knows offense.

 

[RainingRats]

I get what you are saying and do not disagree, but it doesn't really matter.

Coaches are not judged on what they do but the results they get.

Under Horachek the Panthers and Rampage both have had abysmal power plays. The fact that he cannot get them to improve (fairly or unfairly) is an indictment in a brutal, results-oriented business.

We can bring in an assistant who is well regarded as a PP guru. Not sure who that is, but that's an option. I think 5 on 5 we've shown we can be effective despite having a talentless lineup. I also don't think we have many quality head coaching options to choose from at this time.

 

[zeroG]

I get what you are saying and do not disagree, but it doesn't really matter.

Coaches are not judged on what they do but the results they get.

Under Horachek the Panthers and Rampage both have had abysmal power plays. The fact that he cannot get them to improve (fairly or unfairly) is an indictment in a brutal, results-oriented business.

this is true but as i mentioned, there are a lot of other issues with this team and a lot of reasons why power plays can go south that have little to do with coaching. that's why i say this is not a make or break issue right now. i think tallon is (or should be) evaluating the entire picture.

As a defensive coach I wouldn't mind him. If he remains HC, I hope they at lest bring one new assistant that knows offense.

few comments. number one: defense begets offense. number two: "defensive" coaches aren't idiots when it comes to offense (exhibit A in both cases: the bruins). number three: there is no such thing as an "offensive coach" per se.

We can bring in an assistant who is well regarded as a PP guru. Not sure who that is, but that's an option. I think 5 on 5 we've shown we can be effective despite having a talentless lineup. I also don't think we have many quality head coaching options to choose from at this time.

i'm not even sure we need that but if one was available, why not? bottom line is that there is so much more you need to account when talking head coach. one thing i failed to mention above is that horachek seems to have a good temperament and the right focus for the group we have here (primarily young guys). he's a compromise from the hard-nosed deboer-style coaching that rubbed some of the vets and younger guys the wrong way (largely because we were losing).

and i agree - when you consider what's out there, i think horachek stays if the team finishes up reasonably well.

 

[Android 16]

If Nashville fires Trotz.. Would Trotz fit here in Florida? Maybe reunite Trotz and Horacheck?

 

[RainingRats]

If Nashville fires Trotz.. Would Trotz fit here in Florida? Maybe reunite Trotz and Horacheck?

I think he would be a lock. I'd take that arrangement in a second.

 

[Ghoste]

If Nashville fires Trotz.. Would Trotz fit here in Florida? Maybe reunite Trotz and Horacheck?

Has there been rumblings about him being fired?

-ghoste

 

[jrockett1096]

I think a lot of our problems on the powerplay is personnel. Zero-g is right when he says many teams play our same system but the difference is we just do not make the proper plays. It took all year long to find someone to properly play in front of the net and I have been watching Hayes and he is getting better at it and he looks like he understands this will keep him here. We have scored a couple times and it has a lot to do with just this little detail. Everyone else who tried (Kopecky) has been horrible at it.

On defense Campbell is good at skating the puck in and passing from the point but he has a tissue soft shot and he needs a partner to shoot off his passes. No one on the team has shown they can get get the puck on net from the point all year. Personally id like to have seen Olsen get a legit shot because I have seen he has a good knack at getting his shot through. It would be nice to find someone this offseason who can play at the other point on the powerplay and that would solve a lot of issues. Way, way to many shots are blocked on this team.

Lastly the biggest problem I see is guys getting blown up in the corners by penalty killers. Opposing teams play there best and normally biggest dmen on the PK and aggressive strong forwards. Other than Bjugstad, Barkov and Bergenheim this team has serious problems controlling the puck and keeping possession. This is why Huberdeau gets little time there now. Boyes is not too bad but even he gets manhandled at times. We need stronger wingers with better balance and who can actually shoot from 10-15 feet away from the net. Only Bjugstad and a reluctant to shoot Barkov have a good shot from any distance. I would say the thing about flash but he totally has lost it this year as far shot accuracy goes. I was disappointed we could not have moved him at the deadline but i have hopes at the draft. I like what I saw from Trochek and that's the kind of tenacity we need here. We just need better players to put it simply.

 

[FlaPnthrsPunk]

If Nashville fires Trotz.. Would Trotz fit here in Florida? Maybe reunite Trotz and Horacheck?

I'd be pretty surprised if he was let go as I don't think he's had much to work with. I remember watching the Panthers games against them this season and wondering who half of the players even are. They have a great top pairing with Weber and Jones but their offense isn't much better than ours. They also just lost Legwand whom was tied with Weber for top on the team in points with 40. Also, their goaltending takes a big blow without Rinne playing.

But oh yeah, if Trotz is available, without question, hire the man.

 

[Crossbar]

I think a lot of our problems on the powerplay is personnel. Zero-g is right when he says many teams play our same system but the difference is we just do not make the proper plays. It took all year long to find someone to properly play in front of the net and I have been watching Hayes and he is getting better at it and he looks like he understands this will keep him here. We have scored a couple times and it has a lot to do with just this little detail. Everyone else who tried (Kopecky) has been horrible at it.

On defense Campbell is good at skating the puck in and passing from the point but he has a tissue soft shot and he needs a partner to shoot off his passes. No one on the team has shown they can get get the puck on net from the point all year. Personally id like to have seen Olsen get a legit shot because I have seen he has a good knack at getting his shot through. It would be nice to find someone this offseason who can play at the other point on the powerplay and that would solve a lot of issues. Way, way to many shots are blocked on this team.

Lastly the biggest problem I see is guys getting blown up in the corners by penalty killers. Opposing teams play there best and normally biggest dmen on the PK and aggressive strong forwards. Other than Bjugstad, Barkov and Bergenheim this team has serious problems controlling the puck and keeping possession. This is why Huberdeau gets little time there now. Boyes is not too bad but even he gets manhandled at times. We need stronger wingers with better balance and who can actually shoot from 10-15 feet away from the net. Only Bjugstad and a reluctant to shoot Barkov have a good shot from any distance. I would say the thing about flash but he totally has lost it this year as far shot accuracy goes. I was disappointed we could not have moved him at the deadline but i have hopes at the draft. I like what I saw from Trochek and that's the kind of tenacity we need here. We just need better players to put it simply.

Great post, completely agree with all your points, most especially the bold part.

 

[panthersfan94]

Has there been rumblings about him being fired?

-ghoste

I'm going to school in Nashville now and I kind of started to follow the Preds this year. I'm not sure if it's the majority opinion, but it seems that many fans are tired of both he and Poile. Poile because he can never give them any offensive players whatsoever (Idk if the ownership has a large role to play in that or not). And Trotz because of the steady decline over the past few years as well as just wanting something new since he's been there only coach since they've existed.

 

[zeroG]

responding to the discussion at the end of the bruins thread which is now closed. a poster asked how we can objectively assess an NHL coach. my two cents...

first of all, if winning were the only objective criterion, how would talent-poor teams like us ever evaluate a coach? (rhetorical question)

when compared to, say, goaltending, it's actually fairly simple to evaluate a coach even on a bad team: is the team ready to play almost every night? do they compete hard and play for one another? do they play with structure, as a 6 man unit? (note that in order to answer the last question, one must be able to define structure, at least somewhat). do they quit frequently or are they in every game? you could probably add a few more things on to the list but i'd bet you that most coaches and GMs would agree with those core criteria.

i'm neutral to slightly positive with horachek right now but i think if you evaluate him based on that list, he's done OK. i can't imagine anyone doing much better.

 

[Erick*]

responding to the discussion at the end of the bruins thread which is now closed. a poster asked how we can objectively assess an NHL coach. my two cents...

first of all, if winning were the only objective criterion, how would talent-poor teams like us ever evaluate a coach? (rhetorical question)

when compared to, say, goaltending, it's actually fairly simple to evaluate a coach even on a bad team: is the team ready to play almost every night? do they compete hard and play for one another? do they play with structure, as a 6 man unit? (note that in order to answer the last question, one must be able to define structure, at least somewhat). do they quit frequently or are they in every game? you could probably add a few more things on to the list but i'd bet you that most coaches and GMs would agree with those core criteria.

i'm neutral to slightly positive with horachek right now but i think if you evaluate him based on that list, he's done OK. i can't imagine anyone doing much better.

To be fair, you just proved the guy's point.

It's a subjective discussion.

 

[adam graves]

responding to the discussion at the end of the bruins thread which is now closed. a poster asked how we can objectively assess an NHL coach. my two cents...

first of all, if winning were the only objective criterion, how would talent-poor teams like us ever evaluate a coach? (rhetorical question)

when compared to, say, goaltending, it's actually fairly simple to evaluate a coach even on a bad team: is the team ready to play almost every night? do they compete hard and play for one another? do they play with structure, as a 6 man unit? (note that in order to answer the last question, one must be able to define structure, at least somewhat). do they quit frequently or are they in every game? you could probably add a few more things on to the list but i'd bet you that most coaches and GMs would agree with those core criteria.

i'm neutral to slightly positive with horachek right now but i think if you evaluate him based on that list, he's done OK. i can't imagine anyone doing much better.

Zero, by definition, each one of your elements are subjective. To my point you and I could disagree on every single one.

The only thing irrefutable is wins and losses.

And the losses are tragically piling up.

 

[adam graves]

Oh and when Jovo talks of good coaching, structure, and the way a team needs to be coached to make playoffs, and he's describing THE OTHER TEAM, that speaks volumes.

 

[Erick*]

Oh and when Jovo talks of good coaching, structure, and the way a team needs to be coached to make playoffs, and he's describing THE OTHER TEAM, that speaks volumes.

If Jovo dislikes Horachek, it really makes me hope that Horachek stays because **** Jovo.

Edit: I also heard the post game interview and it really had nothing to do with Horachek so I'm not sure why this was brought up in the thread.

You just really don't like inexperienced head coaches. Which is weird because you liked Dineen? I don't get it. But I guess everybody has their own taste.

 

[adam graves]

If Jovo dislikes Horachek, it really makes me hope that Horachek stays because **** Jovo.

LOL i get that i want jovo retired as well.

Even Horachuk's complimenting Tippett on his structure.

If you were at game the difference is glaring. And the Yotes are not that talented.

Just saying that was an example of a well coached team.

 

[JP Mick]

LOL i get that i want jovo retired as well.

Even Horachuk's complimenting Tippett on his structure.

If you were at game the difference is glaring. And the Yotes are not that talented.

Just saying that was an example of a well coached team.

But they are consistent. I have a stupid amount of Yotes players on my fantasy teams because they consistently put up decent numbers week after week.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Dave Tippett is the best coach in the league IMO. Also a big shoutout to Sean Burke, who's probably the best goalie coach in the league (look what he got out of Smith and Bryz)