Peter Chiarelli Why Did You Trade Tayor Hall *****fest Bonanza!

[McGoMcD]

This team with 97 and 29 is the worst offensive team in the league.


let that sink in.

Its like saying the 80's Oilers with Gretzky in per say 1981 is the worst offensive team in the league.


We have Connor McDavid. A human highlight reel and point scoring machine. We are last in the league in goals for with McDavid being 1st in PPG.


Just when you think this organization can't possibly get any lower.

That alone should get Peter Chiarelli fired on the spot without hesitation. This has been ongoing for over a year. He built this team around McDavid that has scored 3 times in 6 games without McDavids help.

1 of the goals was 3-3

2 goals ......2 f&^%$# goals lol

this times 100. It is insane to look at the stats and not think the GM should be fired. The oilers are the laughing stock of the league. Gifted the best player in the game and litteraly can't score without him.

 

[Todd from Leduc]

We are 2 games behind the competition for games played, we win the next 2 and boom we’re in a wildcard spot. #GOILERS

 

[McFlash97]

this times 100. It is insane to look at the stats and not think the GM should be fired. The oilers are the laughing stock of the league. Gifted the best player in the game and litteraly can't score without him.

to add to my previous post

McDavid keeps saving this guys job. McDavid is masking how bad Chiarelli really is at his job. The blind homers in here cant see past that.

 

[belair]

Because it's the reality no matter how often you try and hand wave it away.

Seriously? Come on, man. It's not that complicated. Having stars doesn't guarantee you will win a title, but not having them guarantees you won't.

When I talk about scoring depth I'm, not talking about bottom sixers chipping in. I'm talking about the lack of scoring ability at the very top of the roster which is related to a lack of talent across the board, which is tied to the team bleeding out good players for players who aren't as good or impactful.

You talk about guys like Rieder, Kassian, Caggiula, Khaira needing to be productive, but these guys at their best are bottom sixers that don't make up for the glaring lack of scoring options in the top 6 outside of McDavid. Last season is ample evidence of that.

The Oilers currently have the biggest star in the game. They also have one of the higher quality young centers in the game, despite the slow start. Not having stars isn't a concern for anyone actually living here in reality, where there's a salary cap.

For fun, you should show me the list of championship teams who chose to gut their entire rosters to acquire established star defensemen. Saving you the trouble, that list is awfully short. The countless number of teams who develop their own talent is much easier to find. And these teams don't necessarily win because they have 'star' defensemen leading their charge. It's fairly common for these 'stars' to be coined due to the success of these championship teams. Hence the chicken and the egg reference.

You make that Subban trade and year in year out, you'd have a team with two, maybe three high end scorers and a team that limps into the playoffs every year to be handily defeated by deeper teams. And that roster would be supplemented with mediocre talent moving forward. The path we're taking now has one of the league's deepest rosters down the middle, with the prospect of a young Evan Bouchard evolving into that top D option on his ELC over the next three seasons. It's a significantly more favorable option long-term--which is key, considering those 'stars' you covet are 21, 22 and 19 respectively.

 

[McFlash97]

The Oilers currently have the biggest star in the game. They also have one of the higher quality young centers in the game, despite the slow start. Not having stars isn't a concern for anyone actually living here in reality, where there's a salary cap.

For fun, you should show me the list of championship teams who chose to gut their entire rosters to acquire established star defensemen. Saving you the trouble, that list is awfully short. The countless number of teams who develop their own talent is much easier to find. And these teams don't necessarily win because they have 'star' defensemen leading their charge. It's fairly common for these 'stars' to be coined due to the success of these championship teams. Hence the chicken and the egg reference.

You make that Subban trade and year in year out, you'd have a team with two, maybe three high end scorers and a team that limps into the playoffs every year to be handily defeated by deeper teams. And that roster would be supplemented with mediocre talent moving forward. The path we're taking now has one of the league's deepest rosters down the middle, with the prospect of a young Evan Bouchard evolving into that top D option on his ELC over the next three seasons. It's a significantly more favorable option long-term--which is key, considering those 'stars' you covet are 21, 22 and 19 respectively.

Until Chiarelli trades a Draisaitl for a Alzner.

 

[Soundwave]

to add to my previous post

McDavid keeps saving this guys job. McDavid is masking how bad Chiarelli really is at his job. The blind homers in here cant see past that.

No doubt about that. They would be 2-4 or maybe even 1-5 if McDavid was not playing at 110% and both Peter and Todd would be on a very hot seat.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Until Chiarelli trades a Draisaitl for a Alzner.

Fingers crossed, though he might ask for Petry, RHD after all

 

[space321]

Is it really necessary to compare the two? It's never been either or. Lucic was signed because we had a need for a top six LW in 2015. Save all the whining about the one we traded to fill an organizational need, Eberle's place on this team was always a luxury. He was an expensive complimentary second line right winger.

Fact: Jordan Eberle didn't fill an integral role on the Oilers' roster. He doesn't even fill one on the Isles roster sans Tavares.

If there's anyone Oilers fans really need to let go of--it's this guy.

I didn't say Eberle's the be all end all of scoring wingers. Of course he's not "integral" to a teams' success, but there's no denying he's a consistent 20g scorer. How many of our own wingers can be called that?

And we're comparing them because this is a thread about Chiarelli. One was a guy that Chiarelli brought in and bet 42million dollars on, the other was a guy that Chiarelli deemed expendable and traded away for a 3C. Now we're left with this Oilers team that doesn't look even close to contenders, entering the 1st of 8 of McDavid's contract. Elite forwards produce at their peak during their early 20s. AKA we're in the prime years of McDavid's career. At this point Crosby/Toews/Doughty have already won a stanley cup.

It's not about Eberle, he's just an example of how management can't evaluate its players, and how a large part of the fanbase seems to be oblivious to that fact.

 

[Little Fury]

The Oilers currently have the biggest star in the game. They also have one of the higher quality young centers in the game, despite the slow start. Not having stars isn't a concern for anyone actually living here in reality, where there's a salary cap.

Worst winger depth in the league and no one who can produce up front outside of McDavid. You can pretend it's not a problem, but it is.

For fun, you should show me the list of championship teams who chose to gut their entire rosters to acquire established star defensemen. Saving you the trouble, that list is awfully short. The countless number of teams who develop their own talent is much easier to find.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything since that wasn't the proposal, which was a rookie and prospects for an established, Norris calibre D man in his prime.

And these teams don't necessarily win because they have 'star' defensemen leading their charge. It's fairly common for these 'stars' to be coined due to the success of these championship teams. Hence the chicken and the egg reference.

Nonsense. When has that ever happened?

You make that Subban trade and year in year out, you'd have a team with two, maybe three high end scorers and a team that limps into the playoffs every year to be handily defeated by deeper teams. And that roster would be supplemented with mediocre talent moving forward.

That's what we have now and for the foreseeable future, barring a significant leap forward in development.

The path we're taking now has one of the league's deepest rosters down the middle, with the prospect of a young Evan Bouchard evolving into that top D option on his ELC over the next three seasons. It's a significantly more favorable option long-term--which is key, considering those 'stars' you covet are 21, 22 and 19 respectively.

Well, when you put it that way, I guess I should be excited that my yet-to-be-born kid might be able to watch and understand an Oilers playoff run.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

I noticed something interesting last night regarding the Oilers. Specifically, I was doing a post on Jim Nill in Dallas and their lack of depth, which I attributed to the drafting and development of his tenure.

As a result of my research i was able to show that during his tenure Nill has had trouble identifying quality players capable of making it to the AHL/NHL but that players drafted before his tenure developed well. Meaning, there was a scouting issue in Dallas rather than a player development one since the Stars seemed to develop more than average NHL players from late round picks under his tenure but hadn't found any new players to develop since he changed over their scouting staff.

With that in mind, I elected to look at the Oilers with the same lens, briefly anyway. What I noticed was the exact opposite problem. The Oilers were doing a solid job of identifying players before and during Chiarelli's tenure but the players (especially late rounders) were not progressing after signing contracts. The players would do enough to make the AHL and NHL , as well as any NHL team anyway, but even those players who eventually "made it" to the NHL weren't impactful players. Also, the Oilers had a number of high-end prospects that were forced into early NHL roles that eventually plateau'd, again, suggestive of poor development.

I found it interesting. A more professional stats guy might be able to do more with the data out there.

 

[McGoMcD]

to add to my previous post

McDavid keeps saving this guys job. McDavid is masking how bad Chiarelli really is at his job. The blind homers in here cant see past that.

I agree 100%. Take McD of this team and Chia took a somewhat promising rebuild and just put it in the gutter. There is a reason he was fired in Boston. He won a cup which also masked up all his horrible trades and signings. The guy can't trade, can't sign, can't get players that add chemistry, he can't do anything. He is a one trick pony which is build a big tough team. That pony left town a long time ago and we are left with the a GM who wasn't even great in his era, and his era is long gone.

 

[McGoMcD]

I noticed something interesting last night regarding the Oilers. Specifically, I was doing a post on Jim Nill in Dallas and their lack of depth, which I attributed to the drafting and development of his tenure.

As a result of my research i was able to show that during his tenure Nill has had trouble identifying quality players capable of making it to the AHL/NHL but that players drafted before his tenure developed well. Meaning, there was a scouting issue in Dallas rather than a player development one since the Stars seemed to develop more than average NHL players from late round picks under his tenure but hadn't found any new players to develop since he changed over their scouting staff.

With that in mind, I elected to look at the Oilers with the same lens, briefly anyway. What I noticed was the exact opposite problem. The Oilers were doing a solid job of identifying players before and during Chiarelli's tenure but the players (especially late rounders) were not progressing after signing contracts. The players would do enough to make the AHL and NHL , as well as any NHL team anyway, but even those players who eventually "made it" to the NHL weren't impactful players. Also, the Oilers had a number of high-end prospects that were forced into early NHL roles that eventually plateau'd, again, suggestive of poor development.

I found it interesting. A more professional stats guy might be able to do more with the data out there.

Ya, I mean it is a small sample size but there is something to it. Our drafting pre Chia was bad, it has gotten better, due to Gretzky not Chia. Our development sucks, but that has a lot to do with Chia. Look at Pulj and Yamo, both rushed to the NHL cuase we don't have any wingers. When Chia trades every winger that can score you end up rushing wingers..... So it in many ways is on Chia as well.

 

[belair]

I’ll take Eberle’s soft play and 60 points over any natural winger on the team right now.

This is slightly OT, but it's never really been mentioned.

Jordan Eberle can be specifically be pointed out for setting the precedent for why the Edmonton Oilers routinely get blamed for the inflation of second contracts for these types of players--William Nylander being the most recent. Eberle literally had one season in this league where he produced like a legitimate top line forward. Year #2, 34-42-76 and a +4 as a 21 year old on a team that finished second last in the NHL.

In one year where a responsible team would force this player to earn his playing time to develop the weaker aspects of his game as an undersized forward, he was being spoon-fed top line minutes and primary PP assignments. Heralded as one of the three guys who were going to pull the Oilers out of the cellar, the Oilers mindlessly gave this player a massive $6m extension and then proceeded to use it as a benchmark to extend the rest of the hyped future Oiler trio. Beyond that one year, not one of these guys put up a year in the ELC that would've deemed them worthy of those $6m extension, yet each and every one of them never had to earn the opportunities they received to attempt to produce that offense.

Ancient history now, but if you're asking today why Todd McLellan isn't plugging Jesse Puljujarvi next to Connor McDavid and waiting--this is a pretty damn good reason. Why is Leon Draisaitl making so much money? His time next to Connor paired with his immediate comparable being that other Oilers center making $6m for putting up mediocre numbers for six seasons prior.

Big, big reason why these three guys were bad for business when Connor McDavid came along. They were getting paid like our best players, then they started getting outproduced and passed on the depth chart. I loved all these guys as Oilers, but you can't be making that kind of money if you're a guy who can't earn it. And as Oilers none of them did consistently.

Unfortunately for us that big three was mismanaged from day one thanks to a flash in the pan season from Jordan Eberle.

 

[LaGu]

17/18+18/19
Rattie 239 mins 6 G 5 A 11 pts 1.5 G/60; 2.8 pts/60
McD 239 mins 5 G 11 A 16 pts 1.3 G/60; 4.0 pts/60

15/16 + 16/17
Eberle 990 mins 24 G 23 A 47 pts 1.5 G/60; 2.8 pts/60
McD 990 mins 11 G 39 A 50 pts 0.7 G/60; 3.0 pts/60

Consider also that 7 G 5 A from Eberle came on the PP. None of Rattie's point came on the PP.

Eberle was the perfect RW for McD at the time, or at least everyone thought so, right now Rattie has done as well despite a slowish start to this season. Interesting to see how this looks going forward. To me it looks very much like Eberle was complimentary winger, who obviously could produce with good team mates, and Rattie is of the same mould albeit less talented but more opportunistic.

Considering our cap I take Rattie over Eberle every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

17/18+18/19
Rattie 239 mins 6 G 5 A 11 pts 1.5 G/60; 2.8 pts/60
McD 239 mins 5 G 11 A 16 pts 1.3 G/60; 4.0 pts/60

15/16 + 16/17
Eberle 990 mins 24 G 23 A 47 pts 1.5 G/60; 2.8 pts/60
McD 990 mins 11 G 39 A 50 pts 0.7 G/60; 3.0 pts/60

Consider also that 7 G 5 A from Eberle came on the PP. None of Rattie's point came on the PP.

Eberle was the perfect RW for McD at the time, or at least everyone thought so, right now Rattie has done as well despite a slowish start to this season. Interesting to see how this looks going forward. To me it looks very much like Eberle was complimentary winger, who obviously could produce with good team mates, and Rattie is of the same mould albeit less talented but more opportunistic.

Considering our cap I take Rattie over Eberle every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Well that's just it, isn't it? Considering our cap there's exactly one thing we can afford to sign right now: Nothing.

The Oilers have an absolutely abysmal group of wingers currently. Cap would be the only reason to take Rattie over Eberle.

 

[LaGu]

Well that's just it, isn't it? Considering our cap there's exactly one thing we can afford to sign right now: Nothing.

The Oilers have an absolutely abysmal group of wingers currently. Cap would be the only reason to take Rattie over Eberle.

I don't agree with that completely. The cap situation makes it a complete no brainer.

So far he's done as well with McD as Eberle did. Even better if you don't count PP... Eberle was/is good for scoring. Rattie has obviously played less but is scoring at the same pace with that limited TOI. As I said, and I meant it, it will be an interesting year once Rattie comes back. I think he might have a big year.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I don't agree with that completely. The cap situation makes it a complete no brainer.

So far he's done as well with McD as Eberle did. Even better if you don't count PP... Eberle was/is good for scoring. Rattie has obviously played less but is scoring at the same pace with that limited TOI. As I said, and I meant it, it will be an interesting year once Rattie comes back. I think he might have a big year.

I don't know why PP points suddenly don't matter especially when our PP was the worst in the league last year.

Eberle never needed McDavid's help to score. That's just one thing that separates him and Rattie.

 

[Little Fury]

I don't agree with that completely. The cap situation makes it a complete no brainer.

So far he's done as well with McD as Eberle did. Even better if you don't count PP... Eberle was/is good for scoring. Rattie has obviously played less but is scoring at the same pace with that limited TOI. As I said, and I meant it, it will be an interesting year once Rattie comes back. I think he might have a big year.

Except where we need an Eberle is on the second line. It's bone dry after that top line no matter who plays with Connor and RNH.

 

[Little Fury]

double post

 

[belair]

Ya, I mean it is a small sample size but there is something to it. Our drafting pre Chia was bad, it has gotten better, due to Gretzky not Chia. Our development sucks, but that has a lot to do with Chia. Look at Pulj and Yamo, both rushed to the NHL cuase we don't have any wingers. When Chia trades every winger that can score you end up rushing wingers..... So it in many ways is on Chia as well.

It's funny how these biases come out clearly in posts like this. Do you want to show me the data that directs all of the credit to Keith Gretzky for our improved drafting? I mean, he wasn't even brought into the organization until August 2016--as Assistant GM, mind you--so he wasn't even an integral part of the first two Chiarelli drafts that pulled some notable players out of the later rounds who have reasonable value to the organization.

Personally I wouldn't even give immediate credit to the GM for the improved drafting though it ultimately is his staff doing the job. Same goes for player development, which has been an ongoing problem organizationally since the turn of the century. Just another example of a select few posters with such an unhealthy bias against this individual that they're willing to make up things to discredit an individual who probably has very little to do with any of it aside from hiring the staff currently responsible.

 

[McFlash97]

I don't know why PP points suddenly don't matter especially when our PP was the worst in the league last year.

Eberle never needed McDavid's help to score. That's just one thing that separates him and Rattie.

Ty Rattie was not and is not Jordan Eberle, He never was and never will be. He is a good little player with above average hockey IQ who can make quick smart plays, but ultimately falls well short of Jordan Eberle. All of a sudden people are gaga over the pre season scoring champ like he is Eberle's equal in the NHL. Eberle had a down year where he scored 20 goals. That would be a once in a lifetime career high for Rattie essentially bringing the same game. If Rattie scores 20 I will be ecstatic because we finally have a winger that can get to that mark. Currently we have 0 natural wingers that will this year. Stop with the Eberle comparisons. Its a joke,

 

[McGoMcD]

It's funny how these biases come out clearly in posts like this. Do you want to show me the data that directs all of the credit to Keith Gretzky for our improved drafting? I mean, he wasn't even brought into the organization until August 2016--as Assistant GM, mind you--so he wasn't even an integral part of the first two Chiarelli drafts that pulled some notable players out of the later rounds who have reasonable value to the organization.

Personally I wouldn't even give immediate credit to the GM for the improved drafting though it ultimately is his staff doing the job. Same goes for player development, which has been an ongoing problem organizationally since the turn of the century. Just another example of a select few posters with such an unhealthy bias against this individual that they're willing to make up things to discredit an individual who probably has very little to do with any of it aside from hiring the staff currently responsible.

Sure I have a bias. Who was so great that Chia drafted pre Gretz?

I don't have a problem giving Chia credit as a better drafter than previous GM's, he likely is. But it doesn't come close to making up for his horrendous trades. It's all hearsay but it seems Gretz is the guy that makes the key decisions with drafting. I think the quality went up when he came aboard. It is also pretty clear he made key decisions in Boston. Their drafting got much better when he joined that org and remained good while he was their and Chia left. Post Chia leaving he grabbed Debrusk, Carlo, McAvoy. All very good picks.

Good drafting follows Gretzky not Chia, so I will go with that bias story, it does fit the facts so why not.

 

[Soundwave]

Right now it looks to me like they very much blew it on the 2015 and 2016 drafts, past the obvious McLottery pick.

They could have walked out of those drafts with anyone of Barzal, Connor, DeBrincat, Tkachuk, or Sergachev ... all players available at their picks and ranked right in the range they were drafting at.

They chose every single time to go in a different direction.

You can't cry and say you didn't have chances though, they certainly were sitting there right in the Oilers lap.

Had they come out of these two drafts with even one of the above players, and even if they had done every other stupid thing they've done since, they'd still probably be in OK-ish shape.

The 80s Oilers really built their team by hitting gold in the 1979 and 1980 drafts, it wasn't just about being gifted Gretzky, they came out of those two drafts with Messier, Coffey, Kurri, Anderson, and Lowe.

 

[McGoMcD]

Right now it looks to me like they very much blew it on the 2015 and 2016 drafts, past the obvious McLottery pick.

They could have walked out of those drafts with anyone of Barzal, Connor, DeBrincat, Tkachuk, or Sergachev ... all players available at their picks and ranked right in the range they were drafting at.

They chose every single time to go in a different direction.

You can't cry and say you didn't have chances though, they certainly were sitting there right in the Oilers lap.

Had they come out of these two drafts with even one of the above players, and even if they had done every other stupid thing they've done since, they'd still probably be in OK-ish shape.

The 80s Oilers really built their team by hitting gold in the 1979 and 1980 drafts, it wasn't just about being gifted Gretzky, they came out of those two drafts with Messier, Coffey, Kurri, Anderson, and Lowe.

If you logically take out McDavid (he was drafted he was gifted) the 2015 and 2016 drafts are two of the worst in Oilers history. Clearly Pulj and other players can still make it look average, but at this point it would take some minor miracles to call those drafts even average.

 

[belair]

Worst winger depth in the league and no one who can produce up front outside of McDavid. You can pretend it's not a problem, but it is.

Where did I say our lack of depth wasn't a current issue? I'm just not distracted on 'star' players. Average NHL production would suffice from the average NHLers who currently hold the spots on our wings. We haven't even gotten that--though if we do, this team will be a significantly better quality team than it is today.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything since that wasn't the proposal, which was a rookie and prospects for an established, Norris calibre D man in his prime.

The rumored ask for PK Subban was Leon Draisaitl, Oscar Klefbom and the 4th overall pick--our current second line center, top pairing LD and top forward prospect.

Nonsense. When has that ever happened?

The Chicago Blackhawks for one. Do you really think these players don't take their lumps to get to 'star' status? I'd even argue that Duncan Keith was never truly an 'elite' level defenseman and his offense was a significant product of a powerhouse offense--but there's hardly any data to support it. Brent Seabrook was certainly a product of his situation.

Even Kris Letang. The guy is literally the most hot and cold 'star' defenseman out there. And one year, the Pens proved to the league he wasn't a necessary cog to win a championship.

Certain teams will prove there is no set formula to winning these championships. Which is why I dread these conversations--there is no 'right' answer.

That's what we have now and for the foreseeable future, barring a significant leap forward in development.

Just another example of your pessimistic view that I'm not going to bother providing specific examples to persuade you otherwise. I'm not worried about our future prospect or cap situation considering the past several off-seasons have done nothing but improve both for the long-term.

Well, when you put it that way, I guess I should be excited that my yet-to-be-born kid might be able to watch and understand an Oilers playoff run.

Congrats. He or she might appreciate the potential longevity of that team's success versus the footnote of the one that tried to slap a winning team together, spending all of their available cap and prospects on three or four star players who may or may not have been capable to win a championship with an incomplete roster.

FYI, you really need to find a better way to respond. I can't see what you're commenting on, which makes replying to your posts an exhausting task--impossible on mobile.