Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Sabres | loss | we didn’t get tased, we got trampled

[Andy99]

People are just way too touchy about something that is frankly cut and dry. The leaders on this team have not been good enough during this streak, and their play erodes our structure rather than builds it. It's really this simple and it doesn't mean they are coach killers, bad leaders, or any of the other hysteria flying around twitter, or whatever. There's no reason to make excuses or point fingers elsewhere or explain it away as 'this is how they've always played coach around it' bullshit no it's not lol. Just be better. We all know what they are like when they are at the top of their games, and this is not even close.

Sullivan is also to blame for looking for any reason to reunite GCR, over-playing Letang and Dumo when they hemorrhage shots and goals against, continuing to guve Kappy and Carter sweaters and ice time for zero return, etc.

Two things can be true at once.

To that I reply, you are one of the people expecting perfection from them at their age…yes, it’s RW but this is one of his better articles lol…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - The better players aren't the problem

www.hockeybuzz.com

 

[Pancakes]

To that I reply, you are one of the people expecting perfection from them at their age…yes, it’s RW but this is one of his better articles lol…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - The better players aren't the problem

www.hockeybuzz.com

The better players aren't the problem he says as our top unit flails around on the PP night after night.

I mean if you want to argue they aren't too bad at 5v5, sure, but between the inopportune turnovers and the dreadful PP work our top players absolutely are a problem. Every single one of them.

 

[DearDiary]

A lot of the discussion is around Sullivan, but I would like to go back to where this streak of poor play started. The Pens dominated the Oilers in the 1st period, early in the 2nd period Petry injured McDavid by shoving him into the post. Immediately afterwards the Pens stopped playing hard, they stopped any kind of physical play. Every game since then the Pens players have put in a questionable effort and the amount of risky plays has increased.

The Pens didn't just get worse, they are simply not playing as hard and melting down when the other team puts the peddle down. I really think the Oilers 2nd and 3rd period is in the heads of the players and coach's, I'm sure all the teams they've faced since then have reviewed that game. Every team they've faced since has played with confidence, as if they know the Pens won't push hard and will have defensive breakdowns with a lead.

I won't have an opinion on Sullivan or the players until the losing streak is over and they put together some wins. I want to see how they respond and learn from this mess

 

[cygnus47]

Blaming the players at this point is silly. This is a team of almost exclusively proven veterans that have long careers that show when they're motivated and held accountable they have no problems playing great two-way hockey. The fact that they're not playing for each other, not defending well, getting all the details wrong and weak mentally is all on the way they're prepared by the coaching staff. These players know all of the little tricks and traps of the NHL, they're just not appropriately motivated. It's not the players job to be accountable all on their own, it's on the coach.

If its not Sully's job to motivate the players and create strategies and systems that work, what the hell IS his job?

 

[ChaosAgent]

To that I reply, you are one of the people expecting perfection from them at their age…yes, it’s RW but this is one of his better articles lol…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - The better players aren't the problem

www.hockeybuzz.com

So many words to just sort descend based on xGF%.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

The better players aren't the problem he says as our top unit flails around on the PP night after night.

I mean if you want to argue they aren't too bad at 5v5, sure, but between the inopportune turnovers and the dreadful PP work our top players absolutely are a problem. Every single one of them.

Such a bad article. Guetzel, Sid, Geno, and Rust have at least 2-3 failed passes right to the opposing teams stick that immediately led to a GOAL. I think Geno and Guetz were last night.

It's as lame as saying our Goaltending is the real issue or Kap or Petry.

Name one facet of the game where we have played well since Oilers Period 2. None. They look like 5 of us from HF Boards playing hockey vs. pros.

Literally, every facet of the Penguins play is really bad... it's crazy but we've fallen apart like this before. Hopefully, we pull out of this nose dive soon.

I wanted to amend this... I think POJ, Rakell, and Zucker are playing decently and in position but the rest of this team is a shit show.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The Petry badgering seems really silly to me..

He’s been mediocre but he’s also been a player with Montreal in a totally 180 system for nearly a decade. And sully is using him as like a defensive specialist when we have one of those playing really well in Rutta.

Sully is miscasting a player you say?

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Let's make it a little more for keeps. Who ever loses has to give up their first born.

I love this plan. My first born is in college right now, likely will be in college forever. I'd love for you to take over tuition/room & board.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I don't think it's a case of Sullivan not being seen as a good coach. It's more a case of questioning whether he's the coach for this club, at this point in time. So the idea that people want him gone because he's an idiot who has no clue how to coach is a bit faulty. It's no different than the Islanders parting ways with Trotz or the Bruins parting ways with Cassidy. Doesn't mean both of them are morons.

Having said that, I think that's a really flawed way for an organization to run a club. You don't just look at whether or not Coach X would be sought after around the league if he was available, you assess whether he's still getting the most out of your specific club. And I question whether that's happening anymore.

I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong. Ownership does seem to love him based on the extension. I'm saying it's a questionable way to run things to get rid of a GM (who is in charge of roster building) instead of a coach (who is in charge of getting said roster to play to their capabilities) when the current product seems to be failing on the latter side and not because of the former.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. I'm not advocating for or against Sully/Hextall in this conversation; rather, just speculating on what I think will or won't happen.

 

[LOGiK]

I love this plan. My first born is in college right now, likely will be in college forever. I'd love for you to take over tuition/room & board.

A 'Tommy Boy' graduate?
"just a shade under a decade..."

 

[ChaosAgent]

Such a bad article. Guetzel, Sid, Geno, and Rust have at least 2-3 failed passes right to the opposing teams stick that immediately led to a GOAL. I think Geno and Guetz were last night.

It's as lame as saying our Goaltending is the real issue or Kap or Petry.

Name one facet of the game where we have played well since Oilers Period 2. None. They look like 5 of us from HF Boards playing hockey vs. pros.

Literally, every facet of the Penguins play is really bad... it's crazy but we've fallen apart like this before. Hopefully, we pull out of this nose dive soon.

I wanted to amend this... I think POJ, Rakell, and Zucker are playing decently and in position but the rest of this team is a shit show.

I'm hating xGF% and I think the theme of this year is gonna be "their xGF% is so good how are they so bad!"

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Reminds me of the "We had the 7th best record in hockey, how is this possible" thing back when the Habs beat the Pens in the play-in.

 

[Andy99]

The better players aren't the problem he says as our top unit flails around on the PP night after night.

I mean if you want to argue they aren't too bad at 5v5, sure, but between the inopportune turnovers and the dreadful PP work our top players absolutely are a problem. Every single one of them.

I mean yeah, the PP is dreadful and they make turnovers…and that’s nothing that hasn’t been a constant and that we haven’t been bitching about for years lol…nothing new about it that should be leading to a losing streak…the biggest issue with the PP imo is Letang…if he was off it, we’d have a better goal %…

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

A 'Tommy Boy' graduate?
"just a shade under a decade..."

“Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f***ing Peace Corps.”

-Future U.S. Senator John "Bluto" Blutarsky

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mean yeah, the PP is dreadful and they make turnovers…and that’s nothing that hasn’t been a constant and that we haven’t been bitching about for years lol…nothing new about it that should be leading to a losing streak…the biggest issue with the PP imo is Letang…if he was off it, we’d have a better goal %…

Well Letang does have the lowest ES xGF%, so this checks out.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

To that I reply, you are one of the people expecting perfection from them at their age…yes, it’s RW but this is one of his better articles lol…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - The better players aren't the problem

www.hockeybuzz.com

There's a chasm as wide as the grand canyon between perfection and what they did against Buffalo. Age doesn't make you stand around and watch while others battle for the puck, and it doesn't make you turn the puck over a million times in dangerous areas of the ice and on the PP. So many excuses for their lack of discipline and focus. They need to be better, no reason to sugarcoat

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Every coach at some point becomes the wrong coach for the team. Doesn’t mean they’re bad coaches. But a bad fit at some point. Styles either evolve or stay stagnant. The problem with Sullivan is he thinks his style isn’t the problem. Yet each playoffs since the cups, it has been.

Sully became Bylsma at one point and by that I mean - he thinks he isn’t the problem, but everyone else is at executing his plan which has been stale for 6 seasons. Yet he can win during the season enough to make the playoffs. Which makes revenue but when you invest in an old core like this it’s about cups not just making it.

Keeping Sullivan maybe just makes it for the pens. But the version of him that won, has been long gone or rather, has not evolved at all to grow with the direction of the game.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ryan Wilson’s rudimentary understanding of stats shines brightly when he criticizes Poehling and McGinn for their xGF%. They are getting absolutely buried by Sullivan in terms of usage of course their numbers are going to suck.

Every coach at some point becomes the wrong coach for the team. Doesn’t mean they’re bad coaches. But a bad fit at some point. Styles either evolve or stay stagnant. The problem with Sullivan is he thinks his style isn’t the problem. Yet each playoffs since the cups, it has been.

Yeah it’s simple. He was justified in some of his decisions in 18-19 and 19-20, but a lot of them have just become increasingly stubborn I know better. The comments on Rust with Sid and Dumo up top say all they need to.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Ryan Wilson’s rudimentary understanding of stats shines brightly when he criticizes Poehling and McGinn for their xGF%. They are getting absolutely buried by Sullivan in terms of usage of course their numbers are going to suck.



Yeah it’s simple. He was justified in some of his decisions in 18-19 and 19-20, but a lot of them have just become increasingly stubborn I know better. The comments on Rust with Sid and Dumo up top say all they need to.

Every other coach sees the pens and probably wonders why Dumoulin is on the top pair and why a 35yr old Letang is playing so much still after getting Petry.

There is no way Dumoulin should be averaging as many minutes as he has. He should be playing the minutes between Pettersson and POJ.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What’s the biggest changes he makes when healthy?

Swap in Ruhwedel. Move Rust and Rakell to different lines. Maybe move up Heinen at times. Just no other ideas.

 

[Andy99]

There's a chasm as wide as the grand canyon between perfection and what they did against Buffalo. Age doesn't make you stand around and watch while others battle for the puck, and it doesn't make you turn the puck over a million times in dangerous areas of the ice and on the PP. So many excuses for their lack of discipline and focus. They need to be better, no reason to sugarcoat

Man, I have no idea how you watched this team for so many years…they’ve always puck watched, turned the puck over w regularity, especially on bad ice, and made mental mistakes… nothing new there except they’re older and think they can still get away w it…what is new is that goaltending is not bailing them out lol

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

The Kraken may whoop us again on Saturday.

Sprong hatty incoming....

 

[ChaosAgent]

Man, I have no idea how you watched this team for so many years…they’ve always puck watched, turned the puck over w regularity, especially on bad ice, and made mental mistakes… nothing new there except they’re older and think they can still get away w it…what is new is that goaltending is not bailing them out lol

I don't see how Sullivan fixes it. Or really, how most coaches would fix it.

Unless it's sending a message to Sid or Letang. Crater their minutes or (especially in Sid's case) take away his toys #59 and #17. Here's Drew O'Connor and Ryan Poehling. Play with effort again.

Otherwise we really do need an injury to one of Sid/Geno/Letang for us to have a chance at finding our structure again.

 

[Darren McCord]

I don't see how Sullivan fixes it. Or really, how most coaches would fix it.

Unless it's sending a message to Sid or Letang. Crater their minutes or (especially in Sid's case) take away his toys #59 and #17. Here's Drew O'Connor and Ryan Poehling. Play with effort again.

Otherwise we really do need an injury to one of Sid/Geno/Letang for us to have a chance at finding our structure again.

Change the system and tell the dmen not to pinch all the time. Dumo should never been pinching yet he always is. You can change the system. Sullivans game plan does not work any more. Then pens change the Nhl in 2016 but they cant play that style anymore.

 

[Andy99]

I don't see how Sullivan fixes it. Or really, how most coaches would fix it.

Unless it's sending a message to Sid or Letang. Crater their minutes or (especially in Sid's case) take away his toys #59 and #17. Here's Drew O'Connor and Ryan Poehling. Play with effort again.

Otherwise we really do need an injury to one of Sid/Geno/Letang for us to have a chance at finding our structure again.

Yeah, suicide for the coach to do that lol as our top players score 95% of the goals…he’s not…he needs to change the system…players are too comfortable in it and it really hasn’t been effective lately…if he has their respect at all, that works too…if not, he’ll rightly be fired

The Kraken may whoop us again on Saturday.

Sprong hatty incoming....

Well at least we play the Caps after that lol…that should stop the bleeding for a couple days