Post-Game Talk: Pens vs Leafs: Spanking, Canada's revenge

[Beau Knows]

It is a bit funny to obsess over how bad Dubas apparently is, when your current GM is Treliving.

 

[PaulD]

Dubas doesn't fire coaches - that's his blame buffer.

Babcock ?

 

[PaulD]

It is a bit funny to obsess over how bad Dubas apparently is, when your current GM is Treliving.

So true.
In 9 seasons with the Flames Treviling won a grand total of 3 play off rounds. Went through atleast 5 coaches.
Heard him interviewed on Overdrive couple weeks ago. Unimpressive guy to say the least.

 

[PaulD]

Dubas has never fired a head coach even when it was plainly obvious that it should be done. Keefe bungled through so many playoff series that showed he was over his head and Dubas still kept him on. I don't think he is going to fire Sullivan any time soon. Sorry to break the news. He is very slow acting when it comes to the immediate needs of a team.

Babcock ?

 

[Icarium]

So if we finally get rid of Sullivan Leafs fans will stop bugging us with their tales of what Dubas does or does not do? Yet another reason this needs to happen ASAP.

 

[Pancakes]

I dunno man, feels weird and sad to be obsessively bitching about your team's ex-GM on another team's board. It'd be just as sad for a Pens fan to be obsessively bitching about Shero on the Devils board after years of Shero surrounding generational talent with guys like Chuck Kobasew, Taylor Pyatt, Chris Bourque and Cal O'Reilly and falling on the grenade for an absolute buffoon in Bylsma.

I don't think anybody's stoked with Dubas. If he didn't luck his way into the EK situation, his first off-season would've been dogshit. The reality is this team's at the extreme tail end of the era and it doesn't really matter who the GM was gonna be.

Dubas gets to earn his asinine contract in a couple more years after Sid retires and the tear down/rebuild begins. I'm not overly optimistic but we'll see what happens. Until then, who gives a shit? This team's just circling the drain and hasn't seen the second round since 2018, so in a sense, Dubas probably feels right at home.

It is bizarre shit man. I haven't given even one thought to Shero/JR/Hextall since they all left. Once they're gone I don't give a shit. I can't imagine feeling that jilted by my former gm.

Feel the same way about coaches too. I wanted Bylsma gone and I want Sully gone now too but I don't hate Disco and I don't hate Sully. How could I hate coaches that won cups for us, no matter how flawed they ended up being after that?

Personally I'm fascinated to see what course Dubas will take if (when) the Pens keep circling the drain the rest of this season. I'm sure he had plans of the team being a playoff contender, but what's plan B now that they aren't? Clearly firing Sullivan isn't in plan B sadly (at least...not yet). So whats the plan for the roster? That intrigues me, because there's very little flexibility there with contracts.

Trading Jake is the ballsiest thing he could do, and I'm not sure he has the stones to do it. In the past I was quite against moving him, but if the team is going to miss the playoffs, there's really no reason not to cash in for as many assets as he can get. Dubas talked about "rebuilding on the fly" but that shit ain't happening. The Pens are gonna do this the way every other team has had to do it after a long period of success: tanking. The Devils and Wings had similar runs of success to us and guess what? They weren't able to avoid tanking either.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Dubas has never fired a head coach even when it was plainly obvious that it should be done. Keefe bungled through so many playoff series that showed he was over his head and Dubas still kept him on. I don't think he is going to fire Sullivan any time soon. Sorry to break the news. He is very slow acting when it comes to the immediate needs of a team.

Dubas fired Mike Babcock.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It is bizarre shit man. I haven't given even one thought to Shero/JR/Hextall since they all left. Once they're gone I don't give a shit. I can't imagine feeling that jilted by my former gm.

Feel the same way about coaches too. I wanted Bylsma gone and I want Sully gone now too but I don't hate Disco and I don't hate Sully. How could I hate coaches that won cups for us, no matter how flawed they ended up being after that?

Personally I'm fascinated to see what course Dubas will take if (when) the Pens keep circling the drain the rest of this season. I'm sure he had plans of the team being a playoff contender, but what's plan B now that they aren't? Clearly firing Sullivan isn't in plan B sadly (at least...not yet). So whats the plan for the roster? That intrigues me, because there's very little flexibility there with contracts.

Trading Jake is the ballsiest thing he could do, and I'm not sure he has the stones to do it. In the past I was quite against moving him, but if the team is going to miss the playoffs, there's really no reason not to cash in for as many assets as he can get. Dubas talked about "rebuilding on the fly" but that shit ain't happening. The Pens are gonna do this the way every other team has had to do it after a long period of success: tanking. The Devils and Wings had similar runs of success to us and guess what? They weren't able to avoid tanking either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still annoyed with the mismanagement of JR and Hextall because it's still affecting the team and will be for years (piss poor drafting/development). I just cannot fathom being so rattled by it that I'm going to other team's boards to be like "Hey I have a weirdo irrational disdain of this guy and you guys need to as well!"

 

[HandshakeLine]

It absolutely cannot be three GM's getting the players the coach is asking for. No siree.

Right? It's crazy that 3 different GMs were all working to undermine Mike Sullivan like this.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Thats because we are bitter and jilted. Dubas botched what should have been a dynasty. If i were to write a list of all the good players, prospects and draft capital that were pissed away under Dubas is would make even the worst Leaf hater feel nauseous.

I didn't read anything you wrote, but I'm glad to note I'm finally getting the respect I deserve.

 

[Pancakes]

Don't get me wrong, I'm still annoyed with the mismanagement of JR and Hextall because it's still affecting the team and will be for years (piss poor drafting/development). I just cannot fathom being so rattled by it that I'm going to other team's boards to be like "Hey I have a weirdo irrational disdain of this guy and you guys need to as well!"

I wouldn't say I'm completely unaffected by JR and Hextall's ineptitude but I dunno I don't get truly angry about it any more.

How could I after 3 cups and all the success we've had despite the mismanagement?

Annoyed? Sure. Angry? Eh...not even close. The last time I was angry about the Pens was from 2010-2014 when it looked like Bylsma/Shero were gonna team up to make it so that Sid & Geno only won the 1 cup in their careers. But they've got 3 now. Legacies are secure. Anything from here on out is gravy for them. And I got to see 3 cups in their careers. Not many fans will even see 3 cups in their lifetimes. We're insanely lucky no matter how much we want to bitch about the recent ineptitude.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Honestly, i didn't even know what bylsma was up to until I fell down an AHL rabbit hole on Wikipedia and learned he was coaching there

Lol

JR... He in Vancouver? I dunno.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

I have never been a huge advocate for Dubas, but what is he suppose to do when ownership made stipulations about wanting to still compete along with retaining Sullivan?

Dubas managed to get a Norris-winning defenseman during the offseason. The core is just too old and fatigued at this point. Blame the ownership for the problems that we’re currently seeing. These dumb MF’ers couldn’t even bother to check the proper pronunciation of ‘Dubas’ at their press conference announcing his acquisition.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I have never been a huge advocate for Dubas, but what is he suppose to do when ownership made stipulations about wanting to still compete along with retaining Sullivan?

Dubas managed to get a Norris-winning defenseman during the offseason. The core is just too old and fatigued at this point. Blame the ownership for the problems that we’re currently seeing. These dumb MF’ers couldn’t even bother to check the proper pronunciation of ‘Dubas’ at their press conference announcing his acquisition.

This is fair. Dubas wouldn't have gotten the job if he wasn't smitten with Sullivan and believed in the ownership's vision.

I just think the clapbacks of some posters here to the Toronto people are super cringe. Like IcedCapp's earlier, talking about how all the Leafs fans in the world combined can't get to average IQ. Maybe for Canadian fans, people from Toronto are super obnoxious, above and beyond anything else. But I find it really hard to get worked up about them. It's a passionate fanbase of by far the largest city in Canada; the largest hockey market in the NHL.

And yeah, maybe us getting embarrassed will help our leadership understand changes that need to be made. I find it hard to get "triggered" by Toronto fans talking smack about Dubas.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I didn't read anything you wrote, but I'm glad to note I'm finally getting the respect I deserve.

I was just going to note Dubas squandered a earlier version of the Pens (Toronto) to taking over the much older version and turned a .500 team into yet another .500 team with more expensive toys.

Edit: Doesn't this make Dubas himself sub .500?

 

[Ugene Magic]

One thing I like about Dubas is he talks like a thousand miles an hour to get to his point. Stumbling over his thoughts and responses.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Babcock ?

You know what?...I really forgot about him. My bad.

 

[66-30-33]

One thing I like about Dubas is he talks like a thousand miles an hour to get to his point. Stumbling over his thoughts and responses.

How many words per second? 5? 6?

 

[Ryder71]

Sid isnt playing like hes too old. Team needs a shake up though. Are they cup contenders? No, but they should be a playoff team with the talent at hand.

Sid is one year younger than G, G last year was just over a PPG player, not bad. So Sid essentially at the same point in his life is doing what G did last year. But now Geno and OVie have really dropped off. I'm sure both here and there will have good stretches but not likely sustainable. Sid might still manage decent stats relative to his abilities, but a drop off at some point will be coming.

 

[Ugene Magic]

How many words per second? 5? 6?

No clue, never tried to figure that one out...

But this is the league vs the Pens.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Was Dubas supposed to fix every problem this team has in one offseason? Hell, Rutherford completely misfired in his first offseason here, too.

I think a lot of the gripes come down to impatience and unrealistic expectations.

Anything the core does at this stage of their careers is a bonus. You try to compete with them, but expecting it to actually work out and holding them to the same standard of their primes is just ridiculous.

Same with a coaching change. There's an argument to fire Sullivan. But the "Anyone But Sullivan" crowd is so focused on a short-term fix that they don't care if the short-term fix blows up in their face. The smart move is to wait and get someone who can actually bring sustainable change and new ideas, not just a two-week bump in the standings.

 

[PaulD]

Was Dubas supposed to fix every problem this team has in one offseason? Hell, Rutherford completely misfired in his first offseason here, too.

I think a lot of the gripes come down to impatience and unrealistic expectations.

Anything the core does at this stage of their careers is a bonus. You try to compete with them, but expecting it to actually work out and holding them to the same standard of their primes is just ridiculous.

Same with a coaching change. There's an argument to fire Sullivan. But the "Anyone But Sullivan" crowd is so focused on a short-term fix that they don't care if the short-term fix blows up in their face. The smart move is to wait and get someone who can actually bring sustainable change and new ideas, not just a two-week bump in the standings.

Pens faNs have wanted Sullivan gone for years.......your a little late with your lecture about Sully .

Dubas is another story . But adding the Norris trophy winner and the team gets worse ? How is that ? ......I have no idea.....but I'm not the coach.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Was Dubas supposed to fix every problem this team has in one offseason? Hell, Rutherford completely misfired in his first offseason here, too.

I think a lot of the gripes come down to impatience and unrealistic expectations.

Anything the core does at this stage of their careers is a bonus. You try to compete with them, but expecting it to actually work out and holding them to the same standard of their primes is just ridiculous.

Same with a coaching change. There's an argument to fire Sullivan. But the "Anyone But Sullivan" crowd is so focused on a short-term fix that they don't care if the short-term fix blows up in their face. The smart move is to wait and get someone who can actually bring sustainable change and new ideas, not just a two-week bump in the standings.

Rutherford didn't turn the Pens into the oldest team in the league. Plus, what Rutherford did in 1 calendar year speaks loudly.

So, the question is, what did he really fix?

I see replacements, much the same or worse bottom six and a older 10.0 anchor that is not leading to better team success. Not only that, tying guys down with term.

Once everyone is back off IR and LTIR they shoot right back up well over 30+in age.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Same with a coaching change. There's an argument to fire Sullivan. But the "Anyone But Sullivan" crowd is so focused on a short-term fix that they don't care if the short-term fix blows up in their face. The smart move is to wait and get someone who can actually bring sustainable change and new ideas, not just a two-week bump in the standings.

It's fine if it blows up in their face. They're about to miss the playoffs if they keep Sullivan. Nothing will be lost with the change.
And if it doesn't work out then you just fire him in the summer.

I don't really understand what you're worried about.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It's fine if it blows up in their face. They're about to miss the playoffs if they keep Sullivan. Nothing will be lost with the change.
And if it doesn't work out then you just fire him in the summer.

I don't really understand what you're worried about.

Firing Sullivan now and promoting from within changes nothing.

Firing Sullivan now and hiring from outside means at least a 3-year contract. Firing the replacement in May just a few months into the contract will sour a lot of quality candidates about the job.

Wait until the end of the season to clean house gives you the deepest and best candidate pool to find a good head coach who can actually create change.