Confirmed with Link: Pens trade 1st (No. 31) + Oskar Sundqvist for Ryan Reaves and Blues 2nd (No. 51)|Pt.2

[StutzlesTapeJob]

i LOVE the "Reaves is a useless goon who will just have staged fights" comments. Either you haven't really seen him play and the impact his checking can have, or you have and you are a "puck watcher".

I am not saying he is some all-star. But Tom Sestito or the like, he is not. I just like to think this community has a higher level of hockey appreciation.

Once next season starts, and people see RR game in and out, i think they will realize he fills a meaningful hockey void on this team. Not as a pugilist, but as someone who can really turn momentum and thrive in heavier chippier games.

I laugh that people dont recall in just this past cup run how Sully would edit the lineup with Arch and Wilson, and say, we needed more guys who could bang and thrive on the boards. We tended to win those games, because physical play and response is part of hockey. RR is better cut out to play that role.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

i LOVE the "Reaves is a useless goon who will just have staged fights" comments. Either you haven't really seen him play and the impact his checking can have, or you have and you are a "puck watcher".

I am not saying he is some all-star. But Tom Sestito or the like, he is not. I just like to think this community has a higher level of hockey appreciation.

Once next season starts, and people see RR game in and out, i think they will realize he fills a meaningful hockey void on this team. Not as a pugilist, but as someone who can really turn momentum and thrive in heavier chippier games.

I laugh that people dont recall in just this past cup run how Sully would edit the lineup with Arch and Wilson, and say, we needed more guys who could bang and thrive on the boards. We tended to win those games, because physical play and response is part of hockey. RR is better cut out to play that role.

Bravo! Everyone is going to love Reaves. I think he was a great addition and will make us much harder to play against. He is a forechecking machine and with someone like Wilson on the other side it is going to be a fun line to watch. Sundqvist was waiver eligible and most likely not making this team out of camp. Love the deal even with the 20 picks down. Sometimes getting the best player for what they do is going to overcost. The Blues would of kept him unless they got overpayment for him. So if you wanted Reaves you had to pay up and I am fine with that. Instead of putting a bandaid on the problem you get the best solution in the toughest guy on skates that can actually play a normal shift while still providing 200+ hits and good forechecking.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm basing my opinion on not being all that bothered to see him traded on his call-ups, and never seeing all that much potential in him. With the other call-ups (Guentzel, Wilson, Archibald), they did something at some point during the call-up that stood out as guys with better than 4th line potential. Sundqvist never looked any better than what we had in Carter Rowney.

To be honest, the only part of the trade that gave me pause was the 1st round pick. If this had been Reaves for Sundqvist straight up, would anyone even care?

Yes I would care. Maybe Sunny doesn't pan out but I think he has a lot of tools to like. I guess we will see if he can put them together

 

[Harvey Birdman]

I was really high on Sundqvist myself issue is he didn't develop fast enough and his waiver status caught up with him. So do you waive him and loose him for nothing, or package him up and get a player than can help the roster now?

 

[Shady Machine]

I was really high on Sundqvist myself issue is he didn't develop fast enough and his waiver status caught up with him. So do you waive him and loose him for nothing, or package him up and get a player than can help the roster now?

Or you could play him as 4C or 13ty forward. There wasn't a reason to lose him to waivers IMO

 

[DesertPenguin]

Bravo! Everyone is going to love Reaves. I think he was a great addition and will make us much harder to play against. He is a forechecking machine and with someone like Wilson on the other side it is going to be a fun line to watch. Sundqvist was waiver eligible and most likely not making this team out of camp. Love the deal even with the 20 picks down. Sometimes getting the best player for what they do is going to overcost. The Blues would of kept him unless they got overpayment for him. So if you wanted Reaves you had to pay up and I am fine with that. Instead of putting a bandaid on the problem you get the best solution in the toughest guy on skates that can actually play a normal shift while still providing 200+ hits and good forechecking.

I really liked Sundqvist for our 4th line next year. He was putting up goals in WBS before the injury, playing an NHL level defensive game and would have added some size to the lineup. Losing him bugs me way more than the pick swap.

That said, you're right. Stl wanted to keep Reaves so much that they protected him in the draft and exposed Perron. We can debate whether Perron is still worth the 1st round pick we paid for him a while back, but he is a valuable piece. If the deal was Sundqvist and the pick swap for Perron, no one would really bat an eye value wise, and Stl deemed Reaves more valuable than Perron. He was the guy we wanted and we paid the price to get him.

I have no problem with having Reaves on the team, and he will help out in the games that get ugly. We played plenty of those in the regular season and the playoffs, and had no one who could really answer when teams were throwing hits. Scott Wilson being our most intimidating hitter against Ottawa and Nashville was a problem. This solves that.

The real problem now is all of us clearly see the holes at 3C, 4C and on D, and this trade not only took assets away to fill those holes but actually made it worse by dealing away Sundqvist. GMJR has his work cut out for him over the next week or so filling those holes, but if he comes out on the other side with what we need I won't be too upset about the Reaves deal.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Or you could play him as 4C or 13ty forward. There wasn't a reason to lose him to waivers IMO

And while I agree he should have at least been tried at a minimum during training camp/preseason to see if he could figure out how to fit himself in the roster. But I also understand if GMJR and crew looked at him, his progression, and his waiver status and evaluated him as an improbable to crack the line up why they did this move.

I can see both sides of these even being as hopeful as I was for Sundqvist to make the team at some point. It's best to look at both sides of moves like this and be as unbiased as one can.

 

[Pens1566]

i LOVE the "Reaves is a useless goon who will just have staged fights" comments. Either you haven't really seen him play and the impact his checking can have, or you have and you are a "puck watcher".

I am not saying he is some all-star. But Tom Sestito or the like, he is not. I just like to think this community has a higher level of hockey appreciation.

Once next season starts, and people see RR game in and out, i think they will realize he fills a meaningful hockey void on this team. Not as a pugilist, but as someone who can really turn momentum and thrive in heavier chippier games.

I laugh that people dont recall in just this past cup run how Sully would edit the lineup with Arch and Wilson, and say, we needed more guys who could bang and thrive on the boards. We tended to win those games, because physical play and response is part of hockey. RR is better cut out to play that role.

I do too! Especially since no one is actually saying that, they're magical!!!11!!!!!1!!

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The problem I have with Sundqvist's involvement is simply that it smacks of questionable asset management. I get the waiver concerns (though I don't see why he wouldn't be capable of a 4C/13F role come October) and I get that the team may have soured on his offensive upside (he really didn't show anything more than Rowney when given a chance)...but just like with the Bucs dealing two good prospects on the verge of busting last year, I think it's absurd to think that every other team has an up to the minute scouting report when the red flags aren't blatantly obvious yet. The turn from valuable asset to throw-in was almost immediate, and even if it winds up playing out as perhaps the Penguins expected (McGuire & Ramirez have been lousy in Toronto's system so the Bucs were probably right to give up on them) it still smacks of paying a price to do one specific thing - for the Bucs that was get rid of Francisco Liriano's contract, for the Pens it was seemingly being hyper-focused on acquiring one specific player.

I do have to admit I do somewhat enjoy seeing the difference in reactions to those two trades, which goes to show how big the difference can be between a management group that has earned the benefit of the doubt and one that hasn't. I get it.

 

[SCPens]

Or you could play him as 4C or 13ty forward. There wasn't a reason to lose him to waivers IMO

But that's the issue, he wasn't the 13th forward anymore. He's been passed on the depth chart by Rowney. And once Jimmy gets his 3C figured out, Archy looks to be the 13th forward due to his waiver eligibility. Sundqvist would have been the 14th forward out of camp....if that. So unfortunately there WAS a reason to lose him to waivers.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Guess I may be in the minority but I was more annoyed by the pick than Sundqvist. I think they need way more promising C and D prospects in the pipeline and sooner than later. Saying they still go their man 20 picks later is total speculation.

Since it's apparently all the rage these days, I would've rather given them something like a 2nd next year and a 3rd in 2019 or something. That's still a reasonable offer when you're also throwing in Sundqvist.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I really liked Sundqvist for our 4th line next year. He was putting up goals in WBS before the injury, playing an NHL level defensive game and would have added some size to the lineup. Losing him bugs me way more than the pick swap.

That said, you're right. Stl wanted to keep Reaves so much that they protected him in the draft and exposed Perron. We can debate whether Perron is still worth the 1st round pick we paid for him a while back, but he is a valuable piece. If the deal was Sundqvist and the pick swap for Perron, no one would really bat an eye value wise, and Stl deemed Reaves more valuable than Perron. He was the guy we wanted and we paid the price to get him.

I have no problem with having Reaves on the team, and he will help out in the games that get ugly. We played plenty of those in the regular season and the playoffs, and had no one who could really answer when teams were throwing hits. Scott Wilson being our most intimidating hitter against Ottawa and Nashville was a problem. This solves that.

The real problem now is all of us clearly see the holes at 3C, 4C and on D, and this trade not only took assets away to fill those holes but actually made it worse by dealing away Sundqvist. GMJR has his work cut out for him over the next week or so filling those holes, but if he comes out on the other side with what we need I won't be too upset about the Reaves deal.

STL maybe knew we would pay alot before they sent in their protected list.

 

[Peat]

I was really high on Sundqvist myself issue is he didn't develop fast enough and his waiver status caught up with him. So do you waive him and loose him for nothing, or package him up and get a player than can help the roster now?

I agree with you there. He could have been a decent player here but we had too much depth to keep him here as waivers approached. But I think he was a decent trade chip and might have had more value there than we got.

Point to consider - St Louis didn't want to lose Reaves. Sundqvist was the main part of the deal. So I'm guessing St Louis reckon that Sundqvist is a good add and given what Sexton said, a lot of teams in the league were thinking the same thing.

Hence the overpayment thing.

 

[SCPens]

Guess I may be in the minority but I was more annoyed by the pick than Sundqvist. I think they need way more promising C and D prospects in the pipeline and sooner than later. Saying they still go their man 20 picks later is total speculation.

Since it's apparently all the rage these days, I would've rather given them something like a 2nd next year and a 3rd in 2019 or something. That's still a reasonable offer when you're also throwing in Sundqvist.

But a 2nd next year and a 3rd in 2019 probably doesn't get you within sniffing distance of Reaves. The Pens are looking to win NOW, Ryan Reaves adds to the now. Draft picks and apparently Sundqvist don't. I'm not for trading every pick, far from it actually, but moving down 20 spots for an immediate roster acquisition and apparently still getting the guy they wanted at pick 51 shouldn't be inspiring this many tears.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

That analogy doesn't really work. The referees are the police, they sin bin people that break the rules, they are out there to keep the peace. Enforcers are like vigilantes that take revenge for innocent people getting hurt by beating up other vigilantes or innocent bystanders. Having enforcers is only useful if there are literally no refs and no rules.

All he's going to do is increase the likelihood of us getting scored on and put us on the PK after we've already had a player get hurt.

NHL refs in today's game are like crooked police who have been paid off by the mob to look the other way.

I'm not the biggest fan of enforcers, but if the mob commits a crime against you, the solution in this scenario isn't to ask the police for assistance.

 

[Shady Machine]

And while I agree he should have at least been tried at a minimum during training camp/preseason to see if he could figure out how to fit himself in the roster. But I also understand if GMJR and crew looked at him, his progression, and his waiver status and evaluated him as an improbable to crack the line up why they did this move.

I can see both sides of these even being as hopeful as I was for Sundqvist to make the team at some point. It's best to look at both sides of moves like this and be as unbiased as one can.

Yup I can see both sides too, which is why after my initial reaction I've been fairly reasonable. I think it was an overpayment and I don't really agree that Reaves makes this team better, but I understand the logic behind the trade.

 

[Shady Machine]

But that's the issue, he wasn't the 13th forward anymore. He's been passed on the depth chart by Rowney. And once Jimmy gets his 3C figured out, Archy looks to be the 13th forward due to his waiver eligibility. Sundqvist would have been the 14th forward out of camp....if that. So unfortunately there WAS a reason to lose him to waivers.

He was passed by Rowney this year. I don't necessarily think that's the case in 17-18 or beyond.

 

[Shady Machine]

But a 2nd next year and a 3rd in 2019 probably doesn't get you within sniffing distance of Reaves. The Pens are looking to win NOW, Ryan Reaves adds to the now. Draft picks and apparently Sundqvist don't. I'm not for trading every pick, far from it actually, but moving down 20 spots for an immediate roster acquisition and apparently still getting the guy they wanted at pick 51 shouldn't be inspiring this many tears.

What makes Ryan Reaves add to winning now vs what we already have in the bottom 6? The physicality is a nice element but not one we needed to win back to back cups and other than the centers likely moving on (Cullen and Bones) everyone else is still around. So it's not current bottom 6 plus Reaves in lineup, it's Reaves in lineup and one of Wilson, Kunitz, Kuhn, Archie, Rowney out

 

[Fordy]

uhhh this last year was a miracle people

they didn't coast to the cup and prove that physicality is irrelevant or something

sid could have been paralyzed

almost every scare along the way came as result of being outmatched physically

 

[Shady Machine]

uhhh this last year was a miracle people

they didn't coast to the cup and prove that physicality is irrelevant or something

sid could have been paralyzed

almost every scare along the way came as result of being outmatched physically

Okay and? Are you suggesting that Reaves prevents Niskanen from cross checking Sid in the head?

 

[SCPens]

He was passed by Rowney this year. I don't necessarily think that's the case in 17-18 or beyond.

Well I fail to see how you can come to that conclusion, if management felt so highly about him why would they include him in a trade for a worthless 4th line goon? C'mon now, he WAS passed on the depth chart by Rowney and there are other centres down on the farm that may have passed him too.

 

[SCPens]

What makes Ryan Reaves add to winning now vs what we already have in the bottom 6? The physicality is a nice element but not one we needed to win back to back cups and other than the centers likely moving on (Cullen and Bones) everyone else is still around. So it's not current bottom 6 plus Reaves in lineup, it's Reaves in lineup and one of Wilson, Kunitz, Kuhn, Archie, Rowney out

Did you just get here? I'm sure there's well over 100 pages here that'll answer that question for you.

 

[SCPens]

Okay and? Are you suggesting that Reaves prevents Niskanen from cross checking Sid in the head?

Who knows what may have happened to Sid had Reaves been with the Pens that series? Are you saying without any hesitation that he STILL would have been cross checked in the head?

 

[Fordy]

Okay and? Are you suggesting that Reaves prevents Niskanen from cross checking Sid in the head?

i don't know if he does or not but he definitely sends some of it back the other way and is one of the few players that can singularly help to even out the discrepancy

 

[AjaxTelamon]

What makes Ryan Reaves add to winning now vs what we already have in the bottom 6? The physicality is a nice element but not one we needed to win back to back cups and other than the centers likely moving on (Cullen and Bones) everyone else is still around. So it's not current bottom 6 plus Reaves in lineup, it's Reaves in lineup and one of Wilson, Kunitz, Kuhn, Archie, Rowney out

Well, he's faster than anyone you mentioned, and he's a lot tougher to play against, especially in a seven game series. And he has fresh legs and is in tremendous shape. Next year will be every bit the war of attrition this year was. He helps with that.

The fact that he works as hard as anyone is great too. When I see people say he doesn't fit what Sullivan wants, I don't understand that stuff. All MS has to do is make sure he plays between the whistles. Which he does pretty well already. To have as many hits as he did, and only a couple of interference penalties is impressive.