Confirmed with Link: PENS/STARS TRADE: Brenden Morrow, 2013 3rd<--> Joe Morrow, 2013 5th + contract talk

[WVP]

It's not rare at all that a trade invigorates an older player, especially when we only need what, 30 good games from him?

I've mentioned my concern of having Bennett on Malkin's LW with Neal and Malkin. Not based on talent, but experience and his role. This gives that line a heavy forechecker, someone to retrieve pucks etc. He should be great when that's what he's asked to focus on.

I think Shero and DB are ok with 14-87-9 as the first line. It's not 2010 anymore, Kunitz and Dupuis are playing at a higher level and that line is dominating shift after shift.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Bennett and Kennedy. What about sliding Matt Cooke to L4 LW and rolling Bennett - Sutter - Kennedy as a two-way line? Just a thought....

 

[Richard]

I haven't seen a single thing yet from anyone here who watches WC games or from Dallas fans, that addresses Morrow's speed / skating. It's a legitimate question.

I've seen a couple games and he looked a little slow but by the sounds of others who watch him a lot, it's maybe worse than we suspect. I'd like to think he'd make a decent Kennedy replacement for a year next season if he's willing to take a pay cut, but maybe even that's not true as the only thing Kennedy does consistently well is skate.

As for the leadership stuff yah it helps but that intangible crap is highly overrated at Morrow's age. Matters a lot more when a player is in his prime.

This deal feels in some ways like the Ponikorovsky trade to me. The guy has certain qualities you like and you hope he improves the team, but there's not much to suggest he's going to make a big impact if you look at the reality of the situation.

To me it boils down to this: we gave up a very valuable prospect for a guy who might not even have another full season left in him. That is always a bad idea, no matter how risky / iffy prospects can be. All trades should be made with future impact in mind as well as current impact. This feels like a trade where future impact was not considered even though I know Shero values Joe Morrow as well / that he's not dumb.

Last but not least, using the scary aspects of this trade as "proof" that "Shero bad", is Full Rossi. Nonsense about not having back-up plans and not signing their favorite pet FA last summer, "Strait debacle" etc. GMAFB already. I sincerely hope the people who try to "connect the dots" in situations like this aren't lawyers; you'd land an innocent person in prison no doubt. We can do without the hyperbole, even in criticizing. This is not a firable offense by any means. A chink in the armor for sure, and worthy of criticism IMO (I've always backed Shero), but let's not get carried away before game 1.

Dallas fans are celebrating (as rightly they should) because they FLEECED US. This will be Shero's worse trade. I have watched a vast majority of Dallas games, up to the twenty mark and have attended two live; my brother is a season ticket holder and moved to Dallas in 1983.

Brandon Morrow is absolutely done. He reminds me of Brian Rolston or Brett Hull in Phx.

I hope Morrow comes in and contributes for a run at the Stanley Cup and we win. Then it will be worth it. Morrow won't be on the Penguins next year, he will either be retired or back in Dallas. I'm almost certain the guys we have are better than anything Morrow could bring to this team.

Lastly, we needed cheaper 4th liners to displace Adams and Glass, who have truly been terrible. Who is Morrow going to replace? Cooke? Kennedy? Bennett? All truly much better players.

It's a stupid deal. Period.

 

[Dying Alive]

I was pretty indifferent on this trade, but man, the Stars think they've robbed us blind which really worries me (I read their thread)

I think they need to feel that way after the whole Goligoski for Neal/Niskanen trade. Not saying they aren't happy with the trade overall but I don't think 'robbed us blind' is accurate by any means, nor can it be said before either player has even so much as reported to the other team. Realistically it's going to be a long while before we know the net result of this trade.

 

[wgknestrick]

Morrow can bring the grinding, physicality, and netfront presence to the Malkin line that it is missing without Chris Kunitz there with Neal and Malkin. None of the wingers in that spot this season (Tangradi, Boychuk, Bennett and Kennedy) have been able to play that role they need. I think calling it a sideways move at this point is maybe jumping the gun.

The sideways move is totally dependent on who he displaces. I give the full rundown in my previous post. Acquiring the guy is not the sideways move itself (since we didn't trade away a current roster player), it's who he "displaces" and the Pens have a choice to make there. I am skeptical that they maximize the impact of this trade and make the right choice...

 

[PensFan68]

Totally disagree. Bennett was bringing a TON to the Malkin line: defensive responsibility, grit along the boards, winning puck battles, and someone who has the vision and creativity and IQ to mesh with Malkin. On top of that, Malkin seemed to trust him more than any other player used on that wing. Bennett's presence turned that line from a -7 to a +... Even with Malkin out of the lineup. His impact has been enormous.



Yea, it's all about being lazyboy recliner GMs (why can't we just say armchair? It's less work. Wait, you used Lazyboy recliners twice. Do you work for them? Holy cow that's a lot of typing)

No Pens fan who has watched Morrow play this year wanted him. No Stars fan wanted him. The Stars didn't want him, and he was their captain. But yea, the scouts like what they saw. Why didn't Dallas' scouts like what they had? Hmmm.

Edit: all of us "negative lazyboy recliner GMs" who aren't rah-rah-ree over this move WANT IT TO WORK. We want the Penguins to win the Cup. We certainly hope that Morrow comes to the Pens and remembers how to hit and skate and do all the stuff that made him such a highly-touted player. I hope it happens. I really do. Nothing would make me happier than to be eating a table full of crow about this.

I watched him quite a bit and have wanted him. Probably not to only one either. His toughness along the boards/in front of the net is going to win alot of people over.

 

[Pens1566]

I'm a little skeptical that Morrow can be a decent forechecker ... I don't think he has the wheels for it anymore.

 

[IcedCapp]

I think Shero and DB are ok with 14-87-9 as the first line. It's not 2010 anymore, Kunitz and Dupuis are playing at a higher level and that line is dominating shift after shift.

I don't want to make this another Dupuis thread, but just quickly:

the past week-ish should pretty much display why everyone who says the 1st-line isn't right feels that way. Are they dominating zone time? Yes. But I think, if we can just look at this objectively, we can accept that Kunitz and Dupuis' production was more of a case of statistical variance than a case of 2 people in their mid-30s entering their goal-scoring prime.

That line could use someone else with a good offensive IQ and puck-carrying skills.

 

[Guins71]

Totally disagree. Bennett was bringing a TON to the Malkin line: defensive responsibility, grit along the boards, winning puck battles, and someone who has the vision and creativity and IQ to mesh with Malkin. On top of that, Malkin seemed to trust him more than any other player used on that wing. Bennett's presence turned that line from a -7 to a +... Even with Malkin out of the lineup. His impact has been enormous.



Yea, it's all about being lazyboy recliner GMs (why can't we just say armchair? It's less work. Wait, you used Lazyboy recliners twice. Do you work for them? Holy cow that's a lot of typing)

No Pens fan who has watched Morrow play this year wanted him. No Stars fan wanted him. The Stars didn't want him, and he was their captain. But yea, the scouts like what they saw. Why didn't Dallas' scouts like what they had? Hmmm.

Edit: all of us "negative lazyboy recliner GMs" who aren't rah-rah-ree over this move WANT IT TO WORK. We want the Penguins to win the Cup. We certainly hope that Morrow comes to the Pens and remembers how to hit and skate and do all the stuff that made him such a highly-touted player. I hope it happens. I really do. Nothing would make me happier than to be eating a table full of crow about this.

Are you more qualified than Shero and his scouts? Dallas didn't like what they had because they are not going anywhere this year and wanted to trade an asset to gain a young one back. It happens in every sport. Those same Dallas scouts traded James Neal.

 

[Dying Alive]

Totally disagree. Bennett was bringing a TON to the Malkin line: defensive responsibility, grit along the boards, winning puck battles, and someone who has the vision and creativity and IQ to mesh with Malkin. On top of that, Malkin seemed to trust him more than any other player used on that wing. Bennett's presence turned that line from a -7 to a +... Even with Malkin out of the lineup. His impact has been enormous.



Yea, it's all about being lazyboy recliner GMs (why can't we just say armchair? It's less work. Wait, you used Lazyboy recliners twice. Do you work for them? Holy cow that's a lot of typing)

No Pens fan who has watched Morrow play this year wanted him. No Stars fan wanted him. The Stars didn't want him, and he was their captain. But yea, the scouts like what they saw. Why didn't Dallas' scouts like what they had? Hmmm.

Edit: all of us "negative lazyboy recliner GMs" who aren't rah-rah-ree over this move WANT IT TO WORK. We want the Penguins to win the Cup. We certainly hope that Morrow comes to the Pens and remembers how to hit and skate and do all the stuff that made him such a highly-touted player. I hope it happens. I really do. Nothing would make me happier than to be eating a table full of crow about this.

I don't think that's entirely true. It may be in your case but I think there are more than a few miserable drama queens around here who would love to see this blow up just so that they could say they were right and Shero was wrong. In fact, I even saw at least one poster say yesterday that they hoped it happened.

 

[PenguinTommy]

If we are adding one more roster player, let's say Iggy, We have to trade TWO roster players somewhere. Unless we send Bennett and Despres down.

So even if we are going to try to get Iggy, we just can't send TWO non-roster players/prospects to Calgary.

It's possible indeed, but I doubt it will happen! I don't think it's that easy to throw away two roster players, like Jeffrey, Kennedy or Bortuzzo.

No GM would trade TWO nhl players for free.. other GMs would know, we HAVE TO trade two players and they won't offer much. It's like Strait scenario ... Shero could not get a 7th rounder for him, because other GMs knew we could not keep him, it was trade or waive.

 

[IHWR]

The difference is the Kunitz and Neal deals were for long term gain also and none of Neal, Niskanen or Kunitz were in a serious delcine.

Right and in both of those trades we dealt actual NHL defensemen who had shown levels of success in the league...not a prospect in his first pro season.

Joe Morrow's a great prospect, but there's still a solid chance that he either doesn't reach his vast potential or doesn't pan out at all. So with that risk included, his value goes down in a trade.

Losing Morrow kinda stinks but the value seems to be about right for this trade. Add in the fact that the Bruins (an Eastern rival and team with arguably the most depth at forward in the conference) were offering up as much as it was speculated should add some validity to the Pens making this deal.

 

[Sypher04]

The sideways move is totally dependent on who he displaces. I give the full rundown in my previous post. Acquiring the guy is not the sideways move itself (since we didn't trade away a current roster player), it's who he "displaces" and the Pens have a choice to make there. I am skeptical that they maximize the impact of this trade and make the right choice...

My post was addressing your list directly. It's pretty clear IMO that he moves into the 2nd line winger role, so ultimately we end up with a deep top 9 regardless. Odds are he displaces either Bennett or Kennedy. But given the role required for that spot Morrow would be filling, I don't think that's sideways for example.

 

[Killswitch7187]

I really don't like this, "Nobody wanted him," mindset. Back two years ago, the Stars and their fans wanted nothing to do with Niskanen.

Am I in love with who we gave up in this trade? Of course not. However, the market dictated the price, and the last thing I would of wanted to see was Boston beat us in the ECF due to their depth. People have been screaming all year on this board to get more depth and toughness on the wing. Shero delivered, and now it's not good enough.

We overpaid, but that doesn't make it a bad trade. I like the addition of Brenden, for it makes us a tougher team to play against come playoff time. His production is on the decline, but he's not coming here to score goals. He's still very effective without the puck, and considering his role is to create space for Geno/Neal, I don't see what's wrong with the fit.

 

[Captain Hook]

No Pens fan who has watched Morrow play this year wanted him. No Stars fan wanted him. The Stars didn't want him, and he was their captain. But yea, the scouts like what they saw. Why didn't Dallas' scouts like what they had? Hmmm.

As has been said, the GM's of the two best teams in the east (Boston and Pittsburgh) both wanted Morrow and were both willing to pay a premium to get him. I also don't think it's fair to say Dallas didn't want him. They didn't waive the guy or trade him for a bag of pucks. They had to do their due diligence and see what they could get for their rental player. If they wouldn't have gotten offered a great deal then Morrow would still likely be in Dallas. I don't think they would have gave their captain away while they're sitting in the #8 spot. It's just that they aren't realistically going to win the Cup so if you get offered a premium for your captain you probably have to take it for the betterment of your franchise long-term.

 

[Sypher04]

Also worth considering, who did Morrow play with in Dallas these days? I'm sure they don't compare to Malkin and Neal offensively. In fact, kinda interesting to note that Morrow's offensive numbers seem to have dropped off rapidly after Neal was traded to Pittsburgh. Perhaps the two played on a line together before the trade?

 

[Shwag33]

I honestly don't see the point. Going to a lot of WBS games this year, I agree that J. Morrow had his issues and had yet to live up to all the hype surrounding him.

But why did the Pens need to do this? We don't need "veteran leadership" anymore. Crosby is now plenty experienced as a captain. We have other vets such as Neal, Dupuis, Kunitz, etc. The team has won 12 in a row and is basically healthy. We're tops in the conference and heavy Cup favorites. Why mess with that?

I hope that B. Morrow's production proves me wrong that this was pointless, but I am not a fan.

Forget the trade... but this is about as wrong as it gets (the bolded). Last years playoffs is exactly the reason we need veteran leadership. The fact that 2 out of 4 philly games this year proves this team as its assembled is very much still capable of going to the looney bin.

 

[Richard]

As has been said, the GM's of the two best teams in the east (Boston and Pittsburgh) both wanted Morrow and were both willing to pay a premium to get him. I also don't think it's fair to say Dallas didn't want him. They didn't waive the guy or trade him for a bag of pucks. They had to do their due diligence and see what they could get for their rental player. If they wouldn't have gotten offered a great deal then Morrow would still likely be in Dallas. I don't think they would have gave their captain away while they're sitting in the #8 spot. It's just that they aren't realistically going to win the Cup so if you get offered a premium for your captain you probably have to take it for the betterment of your franchise long-term.

They know they are in 8th despite of Morrows play, not because of it.

 

[plaidchuck]

If anything this shows there probably won't be many huge deals at the deadline. That being said if prices are this high Kennedy might even be worth more than a chip-in on a deal.


Everyone wants the elusive "winger for Sid" and the modern day version of Claude Lemieux out there for the playoffs, newsflash, they're not out there or aren't available..

 

[wgknestrick]

Are you more qualified than Shero and his scouts? Dallas didn't like what they had because they are not going anywhere this year and wanted to trade an asset to gain a young one back. It happens in every sport. Those same Dallas scouts traded James Neal.

Maybe he is? All I know is that I thought signing Tanner Glass was a HUGE mistake before he even played a single game for the Pens. I also didn't like the Michalek UFA signing either.

The Pens are not infallible. Just because this is their "real" job, doesn't mean they are good at it. Mike Millbury is still in business as a hockey analyst. Does that make him intelligent about hockey?

 

[IcedCapp]

I don't think that's entirely true. It may be in your case but I think there are more than a few miserable drama queens around here who would love to see this blow up just so that they could say they were right and Shero was wrong. In fact, I even saw at least one poster say yesterday that they hoped it happened.

That's extremely dumb IMO. I'm not negative because I didn't want a move made or because Joe Morrow was traded... When Iginla, Clowe, Morrow were said to be available,I made a point if taping those games on the computer and watching them. I went from wanting all three because of their reputations to wanting to avoid Clowe and Morrow. I'm not a gm or a scout. I'm probably wrong. I hope I am. It'll make me happy in all the wrong places.

I really don't like this, "Nobody wanted him," mindset. Back two years ago, the Stars and their fans wanted nothing to do with Niskanen.

Am I in love with who we gave up in this trade? Of course not. However, the market dictated the price, and the last thing I would of wanted to see was Boston beat us in the ECF due to their depth. People have been screaming all year on this board to get more depth and toughness on the wing. Shero delivered, and now it's not good enough.

We overpaid, but that doesn't make it a bad trade. I like the addition of Brenden, for it makes us a tougher team to play against come playoff time. His production is on the decline, but he's not coming here to score goals. He's still very effective without the puck, and considering his role is to create space for Geno/Neal, I don't see what's wrong with the fit.

Big difference between niskanen and morrow

 

[Killswitch7187]

Big difference between niskanen and morrow

Correct. Niskanen was seen as a "throw-in". Morrow, the exact opposite. Still fail to see how Dallas didn't "want" Brenden Morrow any longer.

 

[Captain Hook]

They know they are in 8th despite of Morrows play, not because of it.

It's still very rare for a captain to be moved while his team is still in a playoff spot. You could use that against Morrow but the fact that two top GM's wanted him and wanted him at a steep cost is something that speaks well of Morrow.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Dallas fans are celebrating (as rightly they should) because they FLEECED US. This will be Shero's worse trade. I have watched a vast majority of Dallas games, up to the twenty mark and have attended two live; my brother is a season ticket holder and moved to Dallas in 1983.

Brandon Morrow is absolutely done. He reminds me of Brian Rolston or Brett Hull in Phx.

We won't know if it was a fleecing until Joe Morrow has played at least a season in the NHL. Let's just get that out of the way, no matter how painful it was to trade him (I did not like the trade for the record, and was not on the "get BMorrow" bandwagon).

The fact that you've watched Brendan Morrow a lot gives you some credibility here but there are a number of possible scenarios that play out. The one I suspect Shero is hoping for is Brendan Morrow sees this as one last shot to get a Cup and leaves it all on the ice, doing whatever dirty jobs the team requires of him in the playoffs, maybe chipping in a few deflections on the PP, etc... and that Joe Morrow, while good, was redundant among our prospects on the whole. Obviously his shot was not redundant in any sense, including on the big team.

What really bugs me, especially now that the Iginla price is alleged to be "two prospects and a pick", is why didn't we use Morrow to trade for the much better old guy? The one would could conceivably have a couple years left and still produce at a good rate? He may yet do that, but the idea that Joe Morrow will not be used in that equation, bugs me some.

We'll see. I just want Morrow to make one of our lines tougher to play against in the playoffs and chip in a few clutch goals. 3, 4... whatever he can muster. Whetehr this goes down as Shero's worst trade will depend a lot on Joe Morrow and on how far we go this playoff.

 

[Shwag33]

For the matter of this argument, niskanen and morrow are not totally different.

Dallas talked **** on both of them after and before the trade. Based on what dallas fans said Pens fans were expecting niskanen to be in the AHL.

This tells you, don't trust dallas fans opinions.

 

[WVP]

I don't want to make this another Dupuis thread, but just quickly:

the past week-ish should pretty much display why everyone who says the 1st-line isn't right feels that way. Are they dominating zone time? Yes. But I think, if we can just look at this objectively, we can accept that Kunitz and Dupuis' production was more of a case of statistical variance than a case of 2 people in their mid-30s entering their goal-scoring prime.

That line could use someone else with a good offensive IQ and puck-carrying skills.

Sure, any line could and yes that could result in a few extra goals. I'll go back to my opinion that Malkin's line needed a shot in the arm more than anything, and that if 87's line has the puck below the opposing team's goal line for nearly a period a game that's impacting a lot more than just goals.