Salary Cap: Pens Off Season Thread: Pre Free Agency Shenanigans!

[SEALBound]

Can anyone explain to me how that EDM-DET deal was not cap circumvention.?

Detroit gets Yamamoto and Kostin rights for future considerations(nothing) going back to Edmonton.
Detroit buys out Yamamoto.
Detroit non-tenders Kostin and he becomes UFA.

So Detroit trades nothing to take on 2 years of Yamamoto buyout cap hit. And Edmonton pays nothing to do it. Edmonton just avoided having to pay Yamamoto his 3.1M salary this year or the buyout cap hit. What’s the point except cap circumvention and how is this allowed?

We only see what is reported. Detroit doesn't have the rights to talk to Kostin, or Yamamoto for that matter. It's possible they traded for them for nothing in hope to resign either. Most likely, they wanted Kostin and had to take Yamamoto. But then, you talk to him and find out he wants $2mil? Well...no...so you don't qualify him.

That said, there is nothing against not qualifying them and then signing them during free agency to a pre-determined deal that is less than the current contract or QO.

But if it was "Hey Detroit, take these guys so you can buy them out for us" and that was the plan all along...then yes I have to think that is circumvention in some capacity given that it was for "future considerations" but then again, Detroit willingly did so...not sure what the league would say. Just bizarre that Detroit would do that though.

 

[Ulf5]

Doobie Boss- your instructions for tomorrow.
Light 'em up. Literally and figuratively.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Can anyone explain to me how that EDM-DET deal was not cap circumvention.?

Detroit gets Yamamoto and Kostin rights for future considerations(nothing) going back to Edmonton.
Detroit buys out Yamamoto.
Detroit non-tenders Kostin and he becomes UFA.

So Detroit trades nothing to take on 2 years of Yamamoto buyout cap hit. And Edmonton pays nothing to do it. Edmonton just avoided having to pay Yamamoto his 3.1M salary this year or the buyout cap hit. What’s the point except cap circumvention and how is this allowed?

I think Detroit made that trade with trying to extend Kostin, but they weren't able to come to an agreement and instead decided to not qualify him.

It's definitely bizarre but I think that's what the idea was. Agree to take on Yamamoto's buyout to get Kostin's rights, only for them to not be able to come to an agreement with Kostin.

 

[Andy99]

Sucks about Poehling but at the same time, it opens up the possibility of someone new which, at this point, isn't a bad thing.

Morgan Geekie or Sam Steel (or both), come on down!

Sprongy! Buddy! Welcome back!

Hey Soucy, come join your bud Geekie!

can you imagine the look on Sullivan’s face if Sprong was sprung on him lol? He and Hakstol have a lot in common…I saw this a couple hours ago…

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

it's interesting

can you imagine the look on Sullivan’s face if Sprong was sprung on him lol? He and Hakstol have a lot in common…I saw this a couple hours ago…

Did they not see Kap? Basically... it will be the same thing again. We need to bring a bunch of system players or Sully will just f*** them over.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm saying this as a big Kraken fan who watched how good Sprong was here. Sprong is an incredibly niche player that you need to put in the right role for him to succeed. He's a case of a "top-6 or bust" guy who Dave Hakstol happened to find an amazing role for in the bottom-6. He is an incredibly unique player, he's not a guy you can just throw on your 3rd line and be fine. You need to tailor his usage just the right way for him to be productive for you.

He was amazingly effective in the usage the Kraken gave him, but I bet most teams who will sign him won't use him in the right way. With Sullivan as the coach, I expect the Penguins would have no chance at using him right. Sprong is the forward equivalent of a powerplay specialist defenseman who gets super sheltered at even strength. I don't think a majority of NHL coaches would use him correctly, which is why he has bounced around so much.

Sprong can be a phenomenal asset for your team, it just requires very specific usage. You either need to have an offensive 3rd line where he's the main line driver or throw him on the 4th line and give him heavy offensive usage. I don't think either of those really fits how Sullivan runs the team.

 

[Jacob]

If Geekie’s QO was like 1.4m then I’m guessing his market value is less than that, so maybe like 1.25?

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Geekie’s QO was like 1.4m then I’m guessing his market value is less than that, so maybe like 1.25?

I think he wasn't qualified because of the risk with arbitration, not because of his qualifying offer.

 

[Jacob]

I think he wasn't qualified because of the risk with arbitration, not because of his qualifying offer.

Oh yeah. So he’ll probably get like 2-2.25.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm saying this as a big Kraken fan who watched how good Sprong was here. Sprong is an incredibly niche player that you need to put in the right role for him to succeed. He's a case of a "top-6 or bust" guy who Dave Hakstol happened to find an amazing role for in the bottom-6. He is an incredibly unique player, he's not a guy you can just throw on your 3rd line and be fine. You need to tailor his usage just the right way for him to be productive for you.

He was amazingly effective in the usage the Kraken gave him, but I bet most teams who will sign him won't use him in the right way. With Sullivan as the coach, I expect the Penguins would have no chance at using him right. Sprong is the forward equivalent of a powerplay specialist defenseman who gets super sheltered at even strength. I don't think a majority of NHL coaches would use him correctly, which is why he has bounced around so much.

Sprong can be a phenomenal asset for your team, it just requires very specific usage. You either need to have an offensive 3rd line where he's the main line driver or throw him on the 4th line and give him heavy offensive usage. I don't think either of those really fits how Sullivan runs the team.

I feel like Sprong is just a player in a long line of players that have specific skill sets that help them shine analytically but their on ice play isn’t as beneficial as the picture shows.

I think Marino is another player along these lines.

The offensive and defensive negativity of Marino and Sprong greatly impacts what their specific skill sets show as insane analytic contributions.

 

[SEALBound]

I think if you intend to keep a guy like Granlund who is a playmaker through and through, then you best offset his "pass first, second, third, ... , 87th" mentality with a guy who WILL shoot at any given opportunity (and who has the shot to do it). Sprong is that guy. ERod is that center..

Sully is likely the cockblock here but there is logic in bringing Sprong back.

Jake Sid Rakell
Bunting Malkin Smith
Sprong Granlund Rust
DOC Geekie Nylander

Pettersson Letang
Soucy Petry
POJ Rutta
Smith

Kohkonen-CDS

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like Sprong is just a player in a long line of players that have specific skill sets that help them shine analytically but their on ice play isn’t as beneficial as the picture shows.

I think Marino is another player along these lines.

The offensive and defensive negativity of Marino and Sprong greatly impacts what their specific skill sets show as insane analytic contributions.

I agree to an extent, but Sprong was also really god damn good for the Kraken this year. I think a better way to put it is that their great results ignore that they are flawed players and wouldn't give those great results in "normal" usage. You can get great results if you use them right, but a vast majority of teams won't be able to use him right.

It's definitely a weird comparison because it's comparing a defenseman to a forward, but Sprong reminds me of Cody Franson. In Toronto, Franson was this analytics darling who Toronto made a grave mistake in letting go. He was then out of the NHL like 2 years later despite his analytics still being good. If you use him just right, he'll give you amazing results. If you use him like a "normal" player, he's not going to make your team.

 

[SEALBound]

The boys over on HF Wild are giving some pretty bland reviews on Sam Steel. Sounds like he's pretty vanilla. We may be better off seeing if we can get Pius Suter, Sundqvist, or Morgan Geekie.

 

[Gurglesons]

The boys over on HF Wild are giving some pretty bland reviews on Sam Steel. Sounds like he's pretty vanilla. We may be better off seeing if we can get Pius Suter, Sundqvist, or Morgan Geekie.

Pius Suter is the same way. Geekie is the one we want if possible.

Sundqvist is “young” but he’s the type of player that is a lot older than his age due to injury and how he plays.

 

[Empoleon8771]

LMAO I can't wait to hear Leafs fans say how bad Dubas was

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Spronger really deserves a decent contract this time. 21G 25A 46P in 66 games. +13. Minimal PIMs.
Only averaged 11:25 TOI a game. Takeaway/giveaway count even. Healthy corsi.
He didn't even get particularly good goaltending when he was on the ice.

Sigh. Throw the kid a bone.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't want Sprong back, this coach would just misuse him, just NO!

 

[Jacob]

How much does Comtois get, 1.5? 2?

 

[Gurglesons]

How much does Comtois get, 1.5? 2?

Probably. Worthless at whatever cost he gets.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The boys over on HF Wild are giving some pretty bland reviews on Sam Steel. Sounds like he's pretty vanilla. We may be better off seeing if we can get Pius Suter, Sundqvist, or Morgan Geekie.

Steel produces like 2022-23 Archibald over his career relative to his minutes, but while getting 47% D-zone starts instead of 72% like Archi. Better quality linemates too.
He marginally improved this year after the move to Minnesota, but he's mostly trash.

 

[cygnus47]

How much would duchene cost? Now that would be a nice 3rd line centre option with speed.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I mean... in fantasy land... If he wanted to sign a 1 year for a stupidly low contract, I'd have to do it. I know the risks with the supposed attitude and demeanor problems, but I likely give it a shot.

I mean he still produced last season on a Jets team that was in shambles. If we didn't already have a declining Carter I would say sure (and I am not one that usually is against older players if still producing)

Something just rubs me wrong about Wheeler. Maybe a last resort on the cheap cheap but there are other places I would like to look.

 

[Nakawick]

Duchene Malkin Smith as L2 Or Granlund Duchene Rust as L3 are not bad options.

 

[Jacob]

Samorukov is a free prospect. Still like, undrafted NCAA free agent age.

 

[Gurglesons]

No to Duchene. He’s Brassard 2.0.