Confirmed with Link: Penguins sign Tanev for way too long and way too much

Dipsy Doodle

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If he is in our bottom six there is not a player comparable to Perreault that will be playing with him. Perreault is typically a 50PT+ pace player outside of last year.

Bjugstad is 4 years younger than Perreault and his P/G the last 2 years is .51.

Perreault's is .46.

This is not considering that Tanev may see time as a complementary top 6 player, where he would be playing with centers light years better than Perreault. Or that any other linemate we give Tanev in the top 9 will almost certainly be more productive than Lowry.

Or that, most importantly, Tanev was the most productive member of his line at ES last year. Seriously. This idea that he leeched off players who he outproduced is hard to wrap my head around.
 
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Riptide

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It should also be noted that Tanev's 3.5m in free agency lines up fairly well with Calvert's 2.85m and Roussel's 3m the season before (and Roussel got a M-NTC too). In retrospect we should have realised all the hopes he'd come in about 2m were out to lunch...

I tried to tell people. It fell on deaf ears...
 
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Riptide

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I had a knee jerk reaction to this like a lot of people, and rightfully so. I've come around to this signing a lot more with some of you guys posting some promising advanced stats and videos. Lets hope that Tanev can do what he did last year, for at least 5 years of this contract.

Whats good to note is that, if Tanev plays up to his contract. He could become a tradeable asset

On the flip side, if he plays up to the contract we won't want to trade him. I still think the contract was too long (I only saw him getting 4/5 years). But the player at 3.5m isn't an issue. He will very quickly grow to be a fan favorite, even if we have to trade Rust to make it work.
 
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Riptide

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Fixed it.

One was expected (the 3.5m) and the other isn't really a big deal. I don't think finding a team among the other 21 teams in the league will be that much of an issue - even if he is a little overpaid.

As for the contract structure (not talking the term or the M-NTC)... it sucks. That actually doesn't do us any favors, nor would it help us trade him down the line if needed.
yr1: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr2: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr3: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr4: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr5: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr6: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
 

TooManyHumans

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One was expected (the 3.5m) and the other isn't really a big deal. I don't think finding a team among the other 21 teams in the league will be that much of an issue - even if he is a little overpaid.

As for the contract structure (not talking the term or the M-NTC)... it sucks. That actually doesn't do us any favors, nor would it help us trade him down the line if needed.
yr1: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr2: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr3: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr4: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr5: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
yr6: 1m SB, 2.5m salary
I'm not even upset about it. I'm glad we got the player. But I don't understand the need for the term, AAV, or limited NTC.
 
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Riptide

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I'm not even upset about it. I'm glad we got the player. But I don't understand the need for the term, AAV, or limited NTC.

I just don't understand it. The bonuses sure, as that makes him harder to buy out down the road and is guaranteed money. But you could still structure it like we did with JJ (which was smart) so that it pays a lot of money up front, and makes him easier to trade down the line because he's owed less dollars. AND the players usually like this because it means more money in their pockets sooner (which has all sorts of advantages). So to do that is a win/win for both parties. And to not do it on a contract this long with a depth guy that is more likely to be moved at some point then not, just seems very short sighted.

I mean something like: 5m, 5m, 3.5m, 2.5m, 2.5mm 2.5m (21m) still gives him the same amount of money, but it would be easier to trade him after year 3 with only 7.5m in cash being owed then the 10.5m his current contract pays him after yr 3. Like I said... it's a little thing... but it's little things like this that can make your life a lot easier down the line. And while we as fans only really care about the cap hits, GMs have real budgets that they have to adhere to, and thus the dollars do matter to some clubs.

People talk about unforced errors... contract length aside, not front loading this contract was an unforced error. If you're going to give Tanev a 6 yr deal, you front load the hell out of it as a way to hedge down the line if you need to move him.
 

SHOOTANDSCORE

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I just don't understand it. The bonuses sure, as that makes him harder to buy out down the road and is guaranteed money. But you could still structure it like we did with JJ (which was smart) so that it pays a lot of money up front, and makes him easier to trade down the line because he's owed less dollars. AND the players usually like this because it means more money in their pockets sooner (which has all sorts of advantages). So to do that is a win/win for both parties. And to not do it on a contract this long with a depth guy that is more likely to be moved at some point then not, just seems very short sighted.

I mean something like: 5m, 5m, 3.5m, 2.5m, 2.5mm 2.5m (21m) still gives him the same amount of money, but it would be easier to trade him after year 3 with only 7.5m in cash being owed then the 10.5m his current contract pays him after yr 3. Like I said... it's a little thing... but it's little things like this that can make your life a lot easier down the line. And while we as fans only really care about the cap hits, GMs have real budgets that they have to adhere to, and thus the dollars do matter to some clubs.

People talk about unforced errors... contract length aside, not front loading this contract was an unforced error. If you're going to give Tanev a 6 yr deal, you front load the hell out of it as a way to hedge down the line if you need to move him.
Good post.

I thought they just didn't have the structure yet and filled in the average. This may actually be the worst part of this contract.
 

Riptide

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Good post.

I thought they just didn't have the structure yet and filled in the average. This may actually be the worst part of this contract.

I mean maybe (hopefully)... but they filled in the info for the limited NTC... and the bonus structure... so I somehow doubt that's the case.
 
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ziggyjoe212

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Tanev in all likely is a better player than Hagelin, and he's making $500k less than Hags made as Penguin. He will more than likely outscore Hags, too.

While I still don't agree with the contract, this helps me put it into perspective. Everyone loved Hags and most people didn't complain about paying him $4 mil for 10 goals.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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Tanev in all likely is a better player than Hagelin, and he's making $500k less than Hags made as Penguin. He will more than likely outscore Hags, too.

While I still don't agree with the contract, this helps me put it into perspective. Everyone loved Hags and most people didn't complain about paying him $4 mil for 10 goals.

Tbf, there was a bunch of whining about Hagelin's contract, and he also happened to be a possession king who made our best players startlingly better, which makes things very easy to forgive.
 

K Fleur

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The mindset of giving out the ridiculous term on this contract fully encapsulates JR and his generation.

Create problems for the future that you won’t have to worry about.
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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Tanev in all likely is a better player than Hagelin, and he's making $500k less than Hags made as Penguin. He will more than likely outscore Hags, too.

While I still don't agree with the contract, this helps me put it into perspective. Everyone loved Hags and most people didn't complain about paying him $4 mil for 10 goals.

The jury is out on that. Hags was a proven commodity...Tanev not so much
 

Gurglesons

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Tanev in all likely is a better player than Hagelin, and he's making $500k less than Hags made as Penguin. He will more than likely outscore Hags, too.

While I still don't agree with the contract, this helps me put it into perspective. Everyone loved Hags and most people didn't complain about paying him $4 mil for 10 goals.

When Hagelin was traded to us his previous seasons were 35, 33, 24 (in 48 lockout) and 38. I don’t see in what world Tanev is “likely” a better player than Hagelin. Unless you’re referring to Hagelin last year which many people had a problem with.

Nothing in Tanev’s game screams Hagelin aside from people saying he’s fast and tenacious. Hags was a proven top nine player on a NYR Cup Run team.

Tanev had decent 4th line numbers are a solid Winnipeg squad in 17-18 and then had decent 3rd line numbers on a Winnipeg squad that was a disappointment this year.
 

ziggyjoe212

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When Hagelin was traded to us his previous seasons were 35, 33, 24 (in 48 lockout) and 38. I don’t see in what world Tanev is “likely” a better player than Hagelin. Unless you’re referring to Hagelin last year which many people had a problem with.

Nothing in Tanev’s game screams Hagelin aside from people saying he’s fast and tenacious. Hags was a proven top nine player on a NYR Cup Run team.

Tanev had decent 4th line numbers are a solid Winnipeg squad in 17-18 and then had decent 3rd line numbers on a Winnipeg squad that was a disappointment this year.

Hags hasn't scored over 10 goals since 2016. It's pretty clear that he is not the same player that he was in NYR or during the HBK days.

I am comparing Tanev to today's Hagelin, not the one from 2016. The one that just signed a $2.75m contract. While his deal is far more reasonable, it shows that the going rate for good 3rd liners is higher than we all think.
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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Hags hasn't scored over 10 goals since 2016. It's pretty clear that he is not the same player that he was in NYR or during the HBK days.

I am comparing Tanev to today's Hagelin, not the one from 2016.

If you are using today's Hags as a measuring stick, couldn't a really fast guy from the AHL do almost as well for about 1/10th of the price?
 

ziggyjoe212

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If you are using today's Hags as a measuring stick, couldn't a really fast guy from the AHL do almost as well for about 1/10th of the price?
Despite being an offensive black hole, I think Hags brings more to the table than your average AHL/NHL tweener. There's a reason he's a 10 year NHL vet. I'm not knocking him at all, he's a great 3rd liner. I'm just saying Tanev is likely to be better than the current version of Hagelin. The same guy who just signed a contract for almost $3m per year.
 
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Peat

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If you are using today's Hags as a measuring stick, couldn't a really fast guy from the AHL do almost as well for about 1/10th of the price?

Find me a really fast AHL guy who can have the best results with Malkin over a three year period.

I think people vastly underestimate the role that Hagelin's hockey IQ played in this, and how well he understood a role as a 3rd wheel. To use an example - Rust is nearly as fast, and has far better hands, but simply will never be the complimentary player Hagelin is. And neither will most of the other fast AHL guys.
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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Find me a really fast AHL guy who can have the best results with Malkin over a three year period.

I think people vastly underestimate the role that Hagelin's hockey IQ played in this, and how well he understood a role as a 3rd wheel. To use an example - Rust is nearly as fast, and has far better hands, but simply will never be the complimentary player Hagelin is. And neither will most of the other fast AHL guys.

Yup that was Hags 2 years ago. The Hags of today (which is apparently the measuring stick) isn't that same dude. That's why he was shipped out of here, because he DIDN"T create that space for Geno early last year

You'll never find me knocking Hags during those couple years with us...he was fantastic and I'm glad we got to watch him. I know people laugh at "intangibles" but Hags had those things you can't measure by his speed. Today he doesn't have it anymore...it happens to every player
 
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