Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Ploff time

[Pittsburgh1776]

I've posted the stats multiple times. It doesnt matter who's the linemates a line with #71 is a defensive liability. I mean simply look at the plus/minus.


Tell you what. If #71 is a plus player this playoff series I'll leave the messageboard forever. If he's a minus player you leave the messageboard forever. Deal?

Nah, there's an ignore button for that.

You blame Malkin for all plus/minus but when you analyze each goal the vast majority weren't his fault. Plus minus can be meaningful but it doesn't replace the eye test. The eye test tells me that Malkin did a lot of running around in the d zone with Kapanen and/or Carter. Carter is an anchor. Had like 2 plus games in 6 weeks. He is very slow.

That second line will be good, and I think putting Rust there would be ok as well but it's nice to have Rakell's size on the boards and in front of the net.

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2022

The fact that a person can compare Marleau to Malkin with a straight face is obscene.

 

[BobCole]

As usual, after two weeks of bad play - this time from Rust - you guys are talking about him like he's Craig Adams. Rust has has proven that he can produce as basically a PPG player next to Sid for 3 consecutive seasons. Pray tell, who else could we confidently say would match that production next to Sid? What will that player cost?

I'm not saying you keep Rust at any cost (esp. considering the situation w/ Geno & Letang), but you guys are talking about him like he's totally replaceable. He isn't.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Man... dunking on a pushing-36 year old player's +/- rating coming off a catastrophic knee injury while managing a PPG pace and 20 goals in half a season.

Check and mate! It tracks too because he was obviously the only guy on the ice for all those goals so he must be solely responsible. Devastating logic. I like that everyone generally handwaves +/- in almost all circumstances because it's a flawed statistic... until it suits their narrative.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Touching back on the pre-exit exit interviews; I just don't think anyone knows what's gonna happen yet. How the playoffs go will probably weigh heavily on the decision from all sides--Geno's camp, Letang's camp, and the FO.



Some unreal disrespect to DOC. jmelm's gonna write the league offices a nasty letter.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The fact that a person can compare Marleau to Malkin with a straight face is obscene.

I am saying a $7M/year contract is fair given a comp of a player who was sought after in FA and a hockey legend.

Your fanboyism of Geno is so insufferable, dude. I just offered a number that's probably higher than what Hextall and FSG just offered him. Jesus Christ.

 

[ChaosAgent]

As usual, after two weeks of bad play - this time from Rust - you guys are talking about him like he's Craig Adams. Rust has has proven that he can produce as basically a PPG player next to Sid for 3 consecutive seasons. Pray tell, who else could we confidently say would match that production next to Sid? What will that player cost?

I'm not saying you keep Rust at any cost (esp. considering the situation w/ Geno & Letang), but you guys are talking about him like he's totally replaceable. He isn't.

I'm just saying, on the margin it hurts his market. I'm talking maybe $1M/year or $5-7M over the life of his contract. Maybe don't exaggerate what I actually said? The last month hasn't been good for him with free agency looming. Is that wrong?

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I am saying a $7M/year contract is fair given a comp of a player who was sought after in FA and a hockey legend.

Your fanboyism of Geno is so insufferable, dude. I just offered a number that's probably higher than what Hextall and FSG just offered him. Jesus Christ.

Your posts on this topic and player are just off the wall, it's impossible to take them seriously. Marleau's a hockey legend? In what league? I mean, if you get that status from longevity then sure.

It's definitely higher than what was offered, that's why a contract isn't signed. Malkin's market is around 8 at least. 7M is not what any agent would call a fair price at 2-3 years.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Your posts on this topic and player are just off the wall, it's impossible to take them seriously. Marleau's a hockey legend? In what league? I mean, if you get that status from longevity then sure.

It's definitely higher than what was offered, that's why a contract isn't signed. Malkin's market is around 8 at least. 7M is not what any agent would call a fair price at 2-3 years.

"Hey the Marleau contract is a favorable data point for Geno."

"HOW DARE YOU EVEN MENTION MARLEAU AND GENO IN THE SAME SENTENCE YOU ARE SO UNHINGED GENO IS GREAT THIS IS THE SAME AS NOT HAVING HIM AS A TOP 100 PLAYER; YOU NEVER APPRECIATED HIM AND YOU DON'T DESERVE HIM YOU ARE OFF THE WALL, HE WIPES HIS ASS WITH MARLEAU'S CAREER AND EVERYBODY WHO IS SMART KNOWS IT. THE DISRESPECT IN THIS ENTIRE ORGANIZATION IS JUST SO..."...breaks down in tears

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Yeah you just don't understand defensive coverage. You're "coverage" is by excuses.


Imagine sitting behind a computer and continually making excuses for a guy who makes 9.5 Million.

I notice that you didn't actually respond to what was said. If you watch the video you would know. Not perfect but not as bad as that stat suggests. If the org wants to move on, they'll have their reasons and that's business. But it's hard to listen to this kind of stuff from people that just seem to enjoy taking a shit on some of the best players to ever play for this team. You don't stop at reasoned criticism, you go way overboard. Free speech and all that but it's my right to call it crap too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

How about 2 primary assists 5 on 5 all year? Getting outscored by Brian Boyle 5 on 5?

The solution is pretty clear. Someone better.

Wow. I stand corrected. What an amazing rejoinder. "Somebody better." How could I have doubted you?

 

[ChaosAgent]

There's no reason to get your undies in a bunch for pointing out that a Marleau comparison has nothing to do with Malkin's market.

I LOVE YOU GENO I REMEMBER THE HAT TRICK AND THE WAY YOU STARED AT ROLOSON, IT WAS GREAT BECAUSE YOU WERE CARRYING THE TEAM AND SHOWING YOU WERE EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS SID; THEN SID CAME BACK AND WE LOST AND EVERYONE BLAMED YOU. THEN YOU SCORED ON THE 4-ON-4 WITH NEALSY AND IT WAS YOUR LEAGUE AND THE BEST TIME OF MY LIFE.
GENO EVERY TEAM WOULD WANT YOU AT YOUR $9.5M SALARY WE ARE JUST TOO BLIND TO SEE IT BECAUSE WE SADDLE YOU WITH (Bad Linemates) AS OPPOSED TO THE OBVIOUS SOLUTION OF (Good Linemates). I KNOW SULLY JUST DOES THIS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T APPRECIATE YOU CAUSE OF XENOPHOBIA

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hey it's a nice day outside buddy maybe go have some air.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You take what any person says and put a 1000% of spin and exaggeration on it and then respond as if they actually said any of it. Why don't you just respond to what they actually said? Seems like a lot of work to create so many strawmen.

Okay, Stan.

Who's a comp for Geno's next contract? What's a better one than Marleau with the Leafs?
You think it's Ovechkin - he of the 50 goals and the soon-to-be-merch-bonanza of challenging Gretzky's all-time record?

How about you stop getting incensed that someone put Geno's name in the same sentence as another (Hall of Fame) player. And name a comp. Now.

And yes, I know this is how you feel. You like Geno over Sid, you have debated fans on the merits of Malkin for a decade which has hardened your stance and you still feel like Geno is in the top 2-3% of all players in the league if he wasn't disrespected in choice of linemates by his coach prioritizing Crosby (incorrectly). You can call it all a Strawman, but then state what your position actually is.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Okay, Stan.

Who's a comp for Geno's next contract? What's a better one than Marleau with the Leafs?
You think it's Ovechkin - he of the 50 goals and the soon-to-be-merch-bonanza of challenging Gretzky's all-time record?

How about you stop getting incensed that someone put Geno's name in the same sentence as another (Hall of Fame) player. And name a comp. Now.

And yes, I know this is how you feel. You like Geno over Sid, you have debated fans on the merits of Malkin for a decade which has hardened your stance and you still feel like Geno is in the top 2-3% of all players in the league if he wasn't disrespected in choice of linemates by his coach prioritizing Crosby (incorrectly). You can call it all a Strawman, but then state what your position actually is.

I think this is my last post to you in this thread. That's the other thing about you, you don't pay attention to anyone's posts or background but you demand their explanations for their opinions at the drop of a hat. How about no?

I've said pretty clearly his market is about 8 or 8.5. You can ask @Empoleon8771, his number would probably be similar. Malkin's no longer in the top 2-3%, but he's still a very good center. No one paying attention thinks the Pens will give him market value, he would need to take around 7.5 to stay here. Under 7, as rumors have suggested? Absurd and would be an indication the team wants to move on.

I like the stars pretty much equally, Malkin by a couple hairs because he is much more like Beliveau.

You don't have an idea of what you're talking about in most of your posts but you throw crap at the wall until something sticks

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think this is my last post to you in this thread. That's the other thing about you, you don't pay attention to anyone's posts or background but you demand their explanations for their opinions at the drop of a hat. How about no?

I've said pretty clearly his market is about 8 or 8.5. You can ask @Empoleon8771, his number would probably be similar. Malkin's no longer in the top 2-3%, but he's still a very good center. No one paying attention thinks the Pens will give him market value, he would need to take around 7.5 to stay here. Under 7, as rumors have suggested? Absurd and would be an indication the team wants to move on.

I like the stars pretty much equally, Malkin by a couple hairs because he is much more like Beliveau.

You don't have an idea of what you're talking about in most of your posts but you throw crap at the wall until something sticks

Why is his market $8-$8.5M. Based on what exactly?

To be honest I don't care about your opinion of me as a poster. 90% of your thoughts on the Pens are about Malkin and everything is secondary. I don't doubt that you started as a fan of the team but your fandom has morphed into player-fandom and will take some time to morph back. Your thoughts on the other 21 players are mostly irrelevant because you don't actually care, aside from how they help or don't help Malkin.

I would be happy for Malkin to come back next year and I'm not the one throwing a hissyfit for putting his name in the same sentence as another HOFer in Marleau.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Wow. I stand corrected. What an amazing rejoinder. "Somebody better." How could I have doubted you?

Dude, we have the choice of Nathan MacKinnon, Auston Matthews or Leon Draisaitl, if only we moved on from Malkin. Why wouldn't you want someone better?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Dude, we have the choice of Nathan MacKinnon, Auston Matthews or Leon Draisaitl, if only we moved on from Malkin. Why wouldn't you want someone better?

The whole answer is just a Jeff Carter and Magical Cap Space away, StK!

Also this thread is that video where a crow goads the two cats into fighting each other rn. Guess who the crow is?

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

At the end of the day nobody knows what's going to happen but the rumors suggest the team is strongly considering moving on. I disagree as long as we aren't breaking the bank, but if this is the direction they choose they better have a plan in place to replace the players who walk. Jeff Carter isn't that plan. His performance in the second half is enough to make me cringe at 2 more years of this.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think this is my last post to you in this thread. That's the other thing about you, you don't pay attention to anyone's posts or background but you demand their explanations for their opinions at the drop of a hat. How about no?

I've said pretty clearly his market is about 8 or 8.5. You can ask @Empoleon8771, his number would probably be similar. Malkin's no longer in the top 2-3%, but he's still a very good center. No one paying attention thinks the Pens will give him market value, he would need to take around 7.5 to stay here. Under 7, as rumors have suggested? Absurd and would be an indication the team wants to move on.

I like the stars pretty much equally, Malkin by a couple hairs because he is much more like Beliveau.

You don't have an idea of what you're talking about in most of your posts but you throw crap at the wall until something sticks

Yeah you're right, I have "fair" for Malkin being $8 million a year for 3 years. You have 1Cs like Duchene, Zibanejad and Johansen going for that price, and I think Malkin is comparable to those guys when they signed their contracts.

Malkin is an average 1C at this point and $8 million a year is average 1C money.

 

[Darren McCord]

Okay, Stan.

Who's a comp for Geno's next contract? What's a better one than Marleau with the Leafs?
You think it's Ovechkin - he of the 50 goals and the soon-to-be-merch-bonanza of challenging Gretzky's all-time record?

How about you stop getting incensed that someone put Geno's name in the same sentence as another (Hall of Fame) player. And name a comp. Now.

And yes, I know this is how you feel. You like Geno over Sid, you have debated fans on the merits of Malkin for a decade which has hardened your stance and you still feel like Geno is in the top 2-3% of all players in the league if he wasn't disrespected in choice of linemates by his coach prioritizing Crosby (incorrectly). You can call it all a Strawman, but then state what your position actually is.

I do not think Marleau is getting into the Hall of Fame.

And I think Marleau is an ok comparable but I think Pavelski is a bit better to Malkin. Malkin and Pavs are both coming off much better seasons than Marleau did.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

The Trib says today that indications are that the org has told both Letang and Malkin that they will not get the same numbers they had on their last contracts, let alone a raise. It's hard to evaluate any of this since Pitt media is so bad, but I have to think some birdie in the org is leaking some stuff.

I could see one or all three walking to be honest.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The Trib says today that indications are that the org has told both Letang and Malkin that they will not get the same numbers they had on their last contracts, let alone a raise. It's hard to evaluate any of this since Pitt media is so bad, but I have to think some birdie in the org is leaking some stuff.

I could see one or all three walking to be honest.

In Malkin's case that isn't at all surprising and in fact I have a hard time believing his camp would even disagree. He's a 7-8M dollar player at this point. Not nearly 10.

In Letang's... that's probably a "so long and thanks for all the fish."

Could see both walking at this point but for slightly different reasons.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

In Malkin's case that isn't at all surprising and in fact I have a hard time believing his camp would even disagree. He's a 7-8M dollar player at this point. Not nearly 10.

In Letang's... that's probably a "so long and thanks for all the fish."

Could see both walking at this point but for slightly different reasons.

Yes, Malkin's ceiling is around 8 and much more would not make sense. If he hadn't had the recent injury and surgery and had played out the rest of 2021 like he was trending when he got hurt, I think you are looking at maybe 9 at the highest. But not now.

I thought last summer it would be around 7.5 for him to stay here, maybe a little more. Hard to believe the org would offer him not just below 7 but apparently below 6.7 according to Madden. Consider the source but there is a reason the deal isn't signed.

I wonder about Letang. Doesn't seem like the guy who wants to go play out his remaining years on the golf course. I'm sure he's asking for the world but if we aren't even offering a raise on his last contract? Either Hextall is a hard negotiator or we are ok with him walking too.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

In Letang's case, I think losing in the 1st round kinda cements in his (and everyone else's) mind that the window is absolutely slammed shut and ain't opening again this era. Does he stay and plod around the rink for some feel good, ride off into the sunset together hockey while leaving a buncha money on the table, or does he chase that big, final contract?

In Geno's, another 1st round exit and I think it'll come down to whether he thinks he can realistically find a place to chase one final Cup to be the only Russian with 4. If the amount of money he'd have to leave on the table to go to a Cup front runner is too high, he probably just sticks around for like $8 million AAV to hang out with his dude Sid.

Either way, I really don't think this FO/organization is gonna turn their nose up at either guy. They'll offer what they feel is fair, probably much more than I'd offer in either case, and it'll be up to these guys what to do with their final few years in the league.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Yes, Malkin's ceiling is around 8 and much more would not make sense. If he hadn't had the recent injury and surgery and had played out the rest of 2021 like he was trending when he got hurt, I think you are looking at maybe 9 at the highest. But not now.

I thought last summer it would be around 7.5 for him to stay here, maybe a little more. Hard to believe the org would offer him not just below 7 but apparently below 6.7 according to Madden. Consider the source but there is a reason the deal isn't signed.

I wonder about Letang. Doesn't seem like the guy who wants to go play out his remaining years on the golf course. I'm sure he's asking for the world but if we aren't even offering a raise on his last contract? Either Hextall is a hard negotiator or we are ok with him walking too.

I just Madden about as much as I trust my right toe to tell me the weather.

Wouldnt shock me at all if Geno's deal is agreed but not written. But they are waiting for the off season to avoid distractions between that and the Ukraine situation.