Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Ploff time

[MayorofWBS]

How do we max return on Dumo? Do we sell in the off-season or do we need to wait to the TDL?

Depending on how things go with our UFAs, I would consider retention with Dumo for a better off-season return now.

 

[Andy99]

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - The final hurrah?

hockeybuzz.com

 

[Gurglesons]

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - The final hurrah?

hockeybuzz.com

Wow Andy. Very positive article from you.

 

[Pens x]

I actually thought Kasperi Kapanen was the same person as Tyler Kennedy, since they both have a fantastic ability to shoot the puck right into the center of the goalie's chest.

A lot of Pens players seem to do that. It’s the old Sully system of shoot from a mile away and hope a fan is shining a laser pointer in the goalies’ eyes.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I know folks have posted heat maps before about shot location, but does anyone know of heat maps that track shot location in terms of where the shot is aimed? I feel as though the Pens rarely seem to try to elevate the puck and as a result, a lot of the chances are saved because they're shooting it right at the goalie's leg pads when he's already down in the butterfly or stretched out, whereas if they lifted the puck about a foot or more off the ice they'd put it into the net.

Maybe it's just perception, but it just seems like when other teams are scoring, a lot of it is top shelf stuff. Whereas the Pens seem to rely on goalies leaving the 5-hole open or not being square to the shot and leaving space down low beside the pad.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Oh come on now, that's not even a fair comparison line to line. That said...while I will tell anyone that listens that HBK is multiple levels above CSK in terms of talent and scoring, I'm not sure I would be so quick as to say the impact that each line had relative to the cup wins, was THAT much different. I think people really underestimate how vital CSK was to the 08 and 09 runs. That was a monster defensive line, a great possession line, and was as ideal of a pivot line as you could ask for. That said, it didn't necessarily need the scoring prowess that HBK needed as Sid and Geno were in their true prime.

As the old trope goes: sometimes the best defense is a good offense (meaning the other team doesn't have the puck if you do)

 

[jmelm]

A lot of Pens players seem to do that. It’s the old Sully system of shoot from a mile away and hope a fan is shining a laser pointer in the goalies’ eyes.

If these guys aren’t natural goal scorers who can pick the corners or 6 hole or wherever, I don’t know why they don’t shoot for the pads for a rebound MUCH more often.

I think the Pens strategy these playoffs have to be to shoot on or even near the net at every single opportunity unless the perfect pass is there. Getting rebound garbage goals or pucks deflecting off bodies/skates/etc. is the only way we have a chance to outscore FLA if we play them, or score on a hot goalie like Shesterkin if we play NYR.

 

[Gurglesons]

If these guys aren’t natural goal scorers who can pick the corners or 6 hole or wherever, I don’t know why they don’t shoot for the pads for a rebound MUCH more often.

I think the Pens strategy these playoffs have to be to shoot on or even near the net at every single opportunity unless the perfect pass is there. Getting rebound garbage goals or pucks deflecting off bodies/skates/etc. is the only way we have a chance to outscore FLA if we play them, or score on a hot goalie like Shesterkin if we play NYR.

It’s pretty obvious our entire game is based off of this.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

If these guys aren’t natural goal scorers who can pick the corners or 6 hole or wherever, I don’t know why they don’t shoot for the pads for a rebound MUCH more often.

I think the Pens strategy these playoffs have to be to shoot on or even near the net at every single opportunity unless the perfect pass is there. Getting rebound garbage goals or pucks deflecting off bodies/skates/etc. is the only way we have a chance to outscore FLA if we play them, or score on a hot goalie like Shesterkin if we play NYR.

This is pretty much hockey 101 especially in the playoffs. You want bad bounces and garbage goals. Put the puck on the net......periot

 

[SEALBound]

If these guys aren’t natural goal scorers who can pick the corners or 6 hole or wherever, I don’t know why they don’t shoot for the pads for a rebound MUCH more often.

I think the Pens strategy these playoffs have to be to shoot on or even near the net at every single opportunity unless the perfect pass is there. Getting rebound garbage goals or pucks deflecting off bodies/skates/etc. is the only way we have a chance to outscore FLA if we play them, or score on a hot goalie like Shesterkin if we play NYR.

I couldn't agree more unfortunately this is diametrically opposed to the philosophy of nearly all Penguins forwards and dmen sans ERod and Freidman.

 

[ChaosAgent]

If these guys aren’t natural goal scorers who can pick the corners or 6 hole or wherever, I don’t know why they don’t shoot for the pads for a rebound MUCH more often.

I think the Pens strategy these playoffs have to be to shoot on or even near the net at every single opportunity unless the perfect pass is there. Getting rebound garbage goals or pucks deflecting off bodies/skates/etc. is the only way we have a chance to outscore FLA if we play them, or score on a hot goalie like Shesterkin if we play NYR.

100% agree. Shots break defenses. Get rebounds and you may get better chances.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What forwards on this team are driving the net for rebounds and tips effectively?

I would argue that this team is already running a system that funnels pucks to the net from up top and instructs it's shooters to simply hit the net low and hard but doesn't have the actual personnel to do it properly. That's what I largely see... maybe I'm mistaken. Obviously there are also plenty of instances of this team hitting the zone with speed and pulling up for no good reason. But it's largely with the intent of hitting the late man like Dumo or something to toss some unscreened prayer.

 

[ChaosAgent]

What forwards on this team are driving the net for rebounds and tips effectively?

I would argue that this team is already running a system that funnels pucks to the net from up top and instructs it's shooters to simply hit the net low and hard but doesn't have the actual personnel to do it properly. That's what I largely see... maybe I'm mistaken. Obviously there are also plenty of instances of this team hitting the zone with speed and pulling up for no good reason. But it's largely with the intent of hitting the late man like Dumo or something to toss some unscreened prayer.

Maybe once the late man is hit...crash the bloody net. Stop muddying around trying to be the 2nd late man to make the even prettier play for the even more impotent chance.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Maybe once the late man is hit...crash the bloody net. Stop muddying around trying to be the 2nd late man to make the even prettier play for the even more impotent chance.

Easy to say. But I think there are maybe like 3 forwards on this team that can fight through traffic to actually do it with any tangible results. Most of these guys could be fought off by Goligoski going through a rough bout of the flu. I see guys like Guentzel try and get put directly on his ass every time. It's generally a small finesse-based group at forward with approximately all the same skills.

The team has a very confused strategy versus it's personnel IMO.

 

[Gurglesons]

What forwards on this team are driving the net for rebounds and tips effectively?

I would argue that this team is already running a system that funnels pucks to the net from up top and instructs it's shooters to simply hit the net low and hard but doesn't have the actual personnel to do it properly. That's what I largely see... maybe I'm mistaken. Obviously there are also plenty of instances of this team hitting the zone with speed and pulling up for no good reason. But it's largely with the intent of hitting the late man like Dumo or something to toss some unscreened prayer.

Yeah. This is our system. The issue is none of our D can do it and most of our forwards are just standing there instead of actually effectively tipping the puck.

 

[SEALBound]

What forwards on this team are driving the net for rebounds and tips effectively?

I would argue that this team is already running a system that funnels pucks to the net from up top and instructs it's shooters to simply hit the net low and hard but doesn't have the actual personnel to do it properly. That's what I largely see... maybe I'm mistaken. Obviously there are also plenty of instances of this team hitting the zone with speed and pulling up for no good reason. But it's largely with the intent of hitting the late man like Dumo or something to toss some unscreened prayer.

We do have players willing to do it. Guentzel gets plenty, Sid goes to the net enough, Rust sometimes, Zucker is willing, I think guys like Kapanen and Rakell are willing, ERod is willing. So I don't think we are light on guys willing to do it but when the majority of shots off the rush come from the initial entry player pulling up, letting the defense settle in, hitting the trailer while everyone is stagnant, it doesn't leave a lot of room for others to crash the net.

I hate watching Sid pull up, hit Pettersson, and then watch Petts put a wet noodle wrister right into the crest of the sunscreen goalie.

I think the only time you can do that is if you already have numbers in zone. 1 guys pulls up, 2 can crash the net, 1 can take the pass, and the 5th man hangs back just in case. 1st guy that pulls up should also immediately cover for the guys coming in getting the pass.

But rarely do we do that. Coverage lapses are common of that play too which is aggervating. And there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Rangers are watching tapes on us, ready to shut that shit down and counter. As much as Sullivan needs to coach and adapt, the players need to work on not being predictable.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What forwards on this team are driving the net for rebounds and tips effectively?

I would argue that this team is already running a system that funnels pucks to the net from up top and instructs it's shooters to simply hit the net low and hard but doesn't have the actual personnel to do it properly. That's what I largely see... maybe I'm mistaken. Obviously there are also plenty of instances of this team hitting the zone with speed and pulling up for no good reason. But it's largely with the intent of hitting the late man like Dumo or something to toss some unscreened prayer.

I'm absolutely shocked that a system designed around feeding shooters like Dumoulin, Marino, Pettersson and Ruhwedel to fire rockets from the point, so that guys like E-Rod, Kapanen, and the rest of the perimeter brigade can tip/deflection/drive home rebounds isn't resulting in more goals!

 

[Gurglesons]

We do have players willing to do it. Guentzel gets plenty, Sid goes to the net enough, Rust sometimes, Zucker is willing, I think guys like Kapanen and Rakell are willing, ERod is willing. So I don't think we are light on guys willing to do it but when the majority of shots off the rush come from the initial entry player pulling up, letting the defense settle in, hitting the trailer while everyone is stagnant, it doesn't leave a lot of room for others to crash the net.

I hate watching Sid pull up, hit Pettersson, and then watch Petts put a wet noodle wrister right into the crest of the sunscreen goalie.

I think the only time you can do that is if you already have numbers in zone. 1 guys pulls up, 2 can crash the net, 1 can take the pass, and the 5th man hangs back just in case. 1st guy that pulls up should also immediately cover for the guys coming in getting the pass.

But rarely do we do that. Coverage lapses are common of that play too which is aggervating. And there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Rangers are watching tapes on us, ready to shut that shit down and counter. As much as Sullivan needs to coach and adapt, the players need to work on not being predictable.

Pettersson never does this. He is consistently doing slap passes that are 80 feet wide.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The forwards aren't creative enough to be unpredictable. And I would posit that the coach and most NHL coaches WANT predictable, anyway. I'm not trying to blame everything on Sullivan but this is his team with his stamp on it. If he was really that upset the team wouldn't look about the same every year, IMO. Either that or nobody is listening to him.

I largely agree with the rest of what you and Gurgs are saying though.

 

[Gurglesons]

The forwards aren't creative enough to be unpredictable. And I would posit that the coach and most NHL coaches WANT predictable, anyway. I'm not trying to blame everything on Sullivan but this is his team with his stamp on it. If he was really that upset the team wouldn't look about the same every year, IMO. Either that or nobody is listening to him.

I largely agree with the rest of what you and Gurgs are saying though.

I think there is 100% an argument that Sullivan is responsible for this.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Pettersson never does this. He is consistently doing slap passes that are 80 feet wide.

Are we sure that's what he's attempting and in reality he's just got a really inaccurate shot?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think there is 100% an argument that Sullivan is responsible for this.

I agree but I'm trying to be even-handed.

 

[SEALBound]

The forwards aren't creative enough to be unpredictable. And I would posit that the coach and most NHL coaches WANT predictable, anyway. I'm not trying to blame everything on Sullivan but this is his team with his stamp on it. If he was really that upset the team wouldn't look about the same every year, IMO. Either that or nobody is listening to him.

I largely agree with the rest of what you and Gurgs are saying though.

You can't be predictable enough to the point where it's easy to watch tapes on the team and develop an easy strategy to combat it. That's us currently.

I think it's on Sullivan to an extent but I also think we have 4 wings (2 top 6) that defer to Sid and Geno because they are the legacy centers. It's fine for Sid because he was Jake but I think it gets tough for the wings with Geno. That said, Sid has become way too predictable in what he will do. The problem for the other team tends to be, he's still very, VERY good at it. So it works from the manner of - Sid is going to do this...but you still have to stop him. Mike Tyson could choreograph every punch he'd throw in advance and show me film and tapes...but I still wouldn't be able to beat him.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

We do have players willing to do it. Guentzel gets plenty, Sid goes to the net enough, Rust sometimes, Zucker is willing, I think guys like Kapanen and Rakell are willing, ERod is willing. So I don't think we are light on guys willing to do it but when the majority of shots off the rush come from the initial entry player pulling up, letting the defense settle in, hitting the trailer while everyone is stagnant, it doesn't leave a lot of room for others to crash the net.

I hate watching Sid pull up, hit Pettersson, and then watch Petts put a wet noodle wrister right into the crest of the sunscreen goalie.

I think the only time you can do that is if you already have numbers in zone. 1 guys pulls up, 2 can crash the net, 1 can take the pass, and the 5th man hangs back just in case. 1st guy that pulls up should also immediately cover for the guys coming in getting the pass.

But rarely do we do that. Coverage lapses are common of that play too which is aggervating. And there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Rangers are watching tapes on us, ready to shut that shit down and counter. As much as Sullivan needs to coach and adapt, the players need to work on not being predictable.

Kapanen and Rodrigues do not go to the net. In fact, that's why Rodrigues can't score anymore. The majority of his goals have been scored from the slot or the dots. Teams figured that out, and since he won't go to the net, he's not scoring. Most of Kapanen's goals are mapped away from the net, too.

The only guys who aggressively go to the net are Guentzel, Rakell and Zucker. Crosby and Rust make a lot of plays near the net, but they more often go to the side of the cage or behind the net. Malkin goes in occasionally when he's feeling his game.

Carter, McGinn and Blueger could stand to go to the net as screens and deflectors more often.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Kapanen and Rodrigues do not go to the net. In fact, that's why Rodrigues can't score anymore. The majority of his goals have been scored from the slot or the dots. Teams figured that out, and since he won't go to the net, he's not scoring. Most of Kapanen's goals are mapped away from the net, too.

The only guys who aggressively go to the net are Guentzel, Rakell and Zucker. Crosby and Rust make a lot of plays near the net, but they more often go to the side of the cage or behind the net. Malkin goes in occasionally when he's feeling his game.

Carter, McGinn and Blueger could stand to go to the net as screens and deflectors more often.

And I think that's why we've been having so much trouble scoring, particularly in the playoffs. Very few of our players will consistently go to the net, and the rare few who do are all on the small-ish side. Rakell's the only guy who will go to the net often who also happens to have decent size.