Salary Cap: Penguins salary cap and line up thread

[DesertedPenguin]

I will be honest this comes across pretty spoiled statement. The pens have been lucky to have 4 generational stars in the past 30 years. When the Sid and Geno Era end, you may not have an actual cup contending team for 20 or 30 more years. Look at the leafs.

Like will you even watch penguins hockey anymore? It is an honest question.

I watched Dick Tarnstrom and Rico Fata. I'll still watch post-Sid.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I will be honest this comes across pretty spoiled statement. The pens have been lucky to have 4 generational stars in the past 30 years. When the Sid and Geno Era end, you may not have an actual cup contending team for 20 or 30 more years. Look at the leafs.

Like will you even watch penguins hockey anymore? It is an honest question.

That's the disconnect, I guess. Spoiled? It's entertainment. There's zero difference to me between losing in the 1st round (with no chance of improving in the near future--it'd be different if this was 2007 and the core was 20 years old) than some team like Montreal or Buffalo or Arizona. Neither party has a shot at the Cup, but the difference is those teams can improve and stuff. This team's only gonna get worse until they rip the band-aid off and start the rebuild.

I'll love the rebuild. Following and caring about prospects who actually stand to influence this team's Cup chances down the line again? As opposed to these C-tier prospect turds? Sounds awesome. Not having the expectations of a team spending to the cap with hall of fame names in the lineup? In a way, that shit's even more fun than these last few years. Nobody's gonna give a shit about this player's xGF%, or their WAR, or whatever the f*** else pretentious shit that only coaches should care about.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I will be honest this comes across pretty spoiled statement. The pens have been lucky to have 4 generational stars in the past 30 years. When the Sid and Geno Era end, you may not have an actual cup contending team for 20 or 30 more years. Look at the leafs.

Like will you even watch penguins hockey anymore? It is an honest question.

I will make a sign bet that the Penguins will have a team that is more successful than the 2021-2022 team, within the next 5 years.

This is an average team. Plenty of average teams make the playoffs. Like 8-10 teams contend for the Cup and not everyone has the HOF/generational players.

Why do people keep projecting the dark ages redux in a cap-floor league with huge parity? The teams that suck for years and years are mismanaged. It is not anyone's fate to suck for 5 years straight.

 

[Darren McCord]

What GM has done this?

Letting them walk is only bad asset management in the context of "you could have traded them while they were still under contract". Re-signing or not re-signing them has no impact on whether it is bad asset management, because you're just going to use that money elsewhere and have those guys as potential trade chips down the line. You already lost your chance at getting assets back for guys like Malkin, Letang and Rust.

I mean did you honestly think Chicago was gona contend this year? Fleury netted them a 2nd maybe a first.
Marleau resigned with the Sharks and was flipped to us for a 3rd
Kovalchuk was signed then flip for a 3rd at the deadline.
Chicago signed Lehner then flipped him for a 2nd

I mean it happens

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mean did you honestly think Chicago was gona contend this year? Fleury netted them a 2nd maybe a first.
Marleau resigned with the Sharks and was flipped to us for a 3rd
Kovalchuk was signed then flip for a 3rd at the deadline.
Chicago signed Lehner then flipped him for a 2nd

I mean it happens

Are you talking about retaining on 58/71 later on so we can get picks? I guess I get this. Keep the core, buy picks/prospects through retention.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean did you honestly think Chicago was gona contend this year? Fleury netted them a 2nd maybe a first.
Marleau resigned with the Sharks and was flipped to us for a 3rd
Kovalchuk was signed then flip for a 3rd at the deadline.
Chicago signed Lehner then flipped him for a 2nd

I mean it happens

None of those were cases of a player re-signing solely to be used as a trade chip.

Yes, bad teams sign players to then flip at deadlines all of the time. But those deals are almost always 1 year deals and are never players of Malkin's caliber. You don't re-sign guys like Malkin out of a fear of "bad asset management". Asset management should have absolutely zero part in whether you decide to re-sign guys like him.

 

[Darren McCord]

I'll love the rebuild. Following and caring about prospects who actually stand to influence this team's Cup chances down the line again? As opposed to these C-tier prospect turds? Sounds awesome. Not having the expectations of a team spending to the cap with hall of fame names in the lineup? In a way, that shit's even more fun than these last few years. Nobody's gonna give a shit about this player's xGF%, or their WAR, or whatever the f*** else pretentious shit that only coaches should care about.

Ehh ok I mean I dont see how signing Geno effects any of this. Dude said he'd come back cheap. You lose no draft picks over it. Having him maybe bumps you down a few picks in the draft. Draft in the teens for the next two years. Let him and Sid retire together in 2024. Trade Jake for a haul a that deadline and bottom out to finished top 5.

Get a generational player and you already have develop some players over those 2 years from your first. You have your all star goalie in Flower 2.0 by then. So you go win a cup lol. Easy peezy and everyone is happy,

 

[Darren McCord]

None of those were cases of a player re-signing solely to be used as a trade chip.

Yes, bad teams sign players to then flip at deadlines all of the time. But those deals are almost always 1 year deals and are never players of Malkin's caliber. You don't re-sign guys like Malkin out of a fear of "bad asset management". Asset management should have absolutely zero part in whether you decide to re-sign guys like him.

Are you talking about retaining on 58/71 later on so we can get picks? I guess I get this. Keep the core, buy picks/prospects through retention.

It was mainly a reference to letting Rust, Rakell, Geno and Letang all walk. That was more about Rust and Rakell if you aren't keeping Geno and Letang. I would rather Geno stay and you let him and Sid decide what they want to do in 2024 at the deadline when you trade Jake for a haul.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Ehh ok I mean I dont see how signing Geno effects any of this. Dude said he'd come back cheap. You lose no draft picks over it. Having him maybe bumps you down a few picks in the draft. Draft in the teens for the next two years. Let him and Sid retire together in 2024. Trade Jake for a haul a that deadline and bottom out to finished top 5.

Get a generational player and you already have develop some players over those 2 years from your first. You have your all star goalie in Flower 2.0 by then. So you go win a cup lol. Easy peezy and everyone is happy,

But again, Jagr said he'd sign for league minimum as a favor to Mario. Players say shit and turn around and do something else all the time. I don't believe for one second that Geno will sign for anything remotely close to what a 36 year old essential PP specialist with a broken down body, who misses 25 games like clockwork, should realistically be making. This is his retirement deal, and regardless of how much he's made (which is a shitload), this is his last shot to get as much money as he can.

Counter fantasyland; Blow it up this summer, end up with two picks in the top-10 from tanking (keeping our 1st, and moving someone like Jake for a haul), land *the next one* in Bedard and watch hockey fandom lose their minds that the Penguins were gifted another generational talent right after the previous era ended. popcorn.gif

 

[Andy99]

Age 37-38 is the time most really good NHL players should retire unless injury cuts their career off earlier…we honestly should not have resigned Cater…Dustin Brown, Getzlaf are retiring

 

[ChaosAgent]

Age 37-38 is the time most really good NHL players should retire unless injury cuts their career off earlier…we honestly should not have resigned Cater…Dustin Brown, Getzlaf are retiring

I mean, you could extend this logic to Malkin could you not?

 

[Darren McCord]

Counter fantasyland; Blow it up this summer, end up with two picks in the top-10 from tanking (keeping our 1st, and moving someone like Jake for a haul), land *the next one* in Bedard and watch hockey fandom lose their minds that the Penguins were gifted another generational talent right after the previous era ended. popcorn.gif

This only happens if Sid is gone too. Idk man Id rather just watch the 2 players retire here then try to jump start a 5+ year rebuild. Maybe its purely an attachment thing but thats part of the the entertainment too. its all entertainment, the sport, the players and everything wrapped up in it.

So I think we will be stuck in a disagreement there

 

[Andy99]

I mean, you could extend this logic to Malkin could you not?

Yep, he’s 35 though and hasnt played that many years because of injuries and coming over from Russia at age 20. But if he can’t play effectively anymore because of his knee, he should retire…otherwise, he’ll be 36 and probably has 2-3 years left

 

[SEALBound]

lol picks are great but give me a playoff team who picks the next Vasi at #19 than a bottom feeder picking the next Yakupov at #1

Also GM's are dumb and always over pay for names. A 38 Martin St Louis got 2 first.


Lol thats literally how shrew GM's rebuild and gain assets. They sign guys pump up their value and trade them when they are out of the playoffs

Sometimes. It depends on how the team does. You don't resign Malkin, Letang, or Rust under the assumption that you will trade them in 1-2-3 years. Given the fact they are long-term players who have played very well for us, you don't do that to guys. That damages your team's perception on loyalty for all future FAs.

Especially if you still competing like the Penguins are. If you're in the gutter like Tampa was when they traded St. Louis and the guys want "one last shot at the cup", that's a little different.

 

[Darren McCord]

I mean, you could extend this logic to Malkin could you not?

Sign Malkin now and he would fall right into that timeline for retirement tho. He would be be 38 at the end of a 3 year deal.

 

[Darren McCord]

Especially if you still competing like the Penguins are. If you're in the gutter like Tampa was when they traded St. Louis and the guys want "one last shot at the cup", that's a little different.

This is what I was thinking for Malkin and Letang. The comment was geared more towards letting Rust and Rakell walk too.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This only happens if Sid is gone too. Idk man Id rather just watch the 2 players retire here then try to jump start a 5+ year rebuild. Maybe its purely an attachment thing but thats part of the the entertainment too. its all entertainment, the sport, the players and everything wrapped up in it.

So I think we will be stuck in a disagreement there

You'd rather keep watching this already boring, ever-worsening hockey for the sentimental value of getting to watch two guys do the Queen's wave for another three years? Yeesh, I dunno man. That's f***ing bananas to me. Like you said, respectfully agree to disagreee. I know I'm in the extreme minority on this, and I'm fine with that.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yep, he’s 35 though and hasnt played that many years because of injuries and coming over from Russia at age 20. But if he can’t play effectively anymore because of his knee, he should retire…otherwise, he’ll be 36 and probably has 2-3 years left

I think we should keep Malkin but we should take our cues from the class of 2003. No one save one guy (Bergeron) has the same caliber of role they had in their prime.

Thinking Geno is going to carry the 2nd line is foolish. Letting him play alongside Sid could extend his useful life at 5-on-5.

Letang...I dunno. Someone is gonna offer him 5 years. That said he is a more crucial player.

 

[Darren McCord]

You'd rather keep watching this already boring, ever-worsening hockey for the sentimental value of getting to watch two guys do the Queen's wave for another three years? Yeesh, I dunno man. That's f***ing bananas to me. Like you said, respectfully agree to disagreee. I know I'm in the extreme minority on this, and I'm fine with that.

You out to lunch if you think this boring hockey doesnt continue after Malkin and Letang leave if Sullivan stays.

3 guys aren't what's making this team boring. Its the terrible vanilla depth and the coach. Sure they may suck still next year but it doesnt have to be boring. Its the guy who would rather play constantly play simon, erod and Zar.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You out to lunch if you think this boring hockey doesnt continue after Malkin and Letang leave if Sullivan stays.

3 guys aren't what's making this team boring. Its the terrible vanilla depth and the coach. Sure they may suck still next year but it doesnt have to be boring. Its the guy who would rather play constantly play simon, erod and Zar.

I'm not saying we'll instantly be fun to watch. I'm saying we'll be making progress toward *something* as opposed to spinning our tires in the mud and cranking off to the past 15 years of the era as if it hasn't realistically already ended.

I'd rather the team be boring and have zero shot at the Cup while collecting premium prospects in an effort to contend again than to hug my Evgeni Malkin body pillow and pretend the rebuild isn't knocking the door down--all the while still watching a boring team have zero shot at the Cup. (Again, not directly talking about you, just the idea in general that this team *gasp* CANNOT start the rebuild they have so much more to offer and the sentiment of these BFFs being together ~forever~ and legacy etc barf)

 

[Andy99]

I dunno…Get

I think we should keep Malkin but we should take our cues from the class of 2003. No one save one guy (Bergeron) has the same caliber of role they had in their prime.

Thinking Geno is going to carry the 2nd line is foolish. Letting him play alongside Sid could extend his useful life at 5-on-5.

Letang...I dunno. Someone is gonna offer him 5 years. That said he is a more crucial player.

i dunno…Getzlaf was still centering L1 before his injury…I think it depends on the system, but in Sullivan’s system no way could Geno be a regular winger…his system requires wingers with speed…if Sullivan gets replaced, I could see Geno moving to wing fulltime depending on having a 2C replacement

 

[ChaosAgent]

I dunno…Get

i dunno…Getzlaf was still centering L1 before his injury…I think it depends on the system, but in Sullivan’s system no way could Geno be a regular winger…his system requires wingers with speed…if Sullivan gets replaced, I could see Geno moving to wing fulltime depending on having a 2C replacement

Anaheim sucks, though. Is having Geno play a Getzlaf role really a contributor to a winning team? For the record I think Geno would be infinitely better at wing than Getzlaf would.

 

[Darren McCord]

I'm not saying we'll instantly be fun to watch. I'm saying we'll be making progress toward *something* as opposed to spinning our tires in the mud and cranking off to the past 15 years of the era as if it hasn't realistically already ended.

I'd rather the team be boring and have zero shot at the Cup while collecting premium prospects in an effort to contend again than to hug my Evgeni Malkin body pillow and pretend the rebuild isn't knocking the door down--all the while still watching a boring team have zero shot at the Cup. (Again, not directly talking about you, just the idea in general that this team *gasp* CANNOT start the rebuild they have so much more to offer and the sentiment of these BFFs being together ~forever~ and legacy etc barf)

Everyone enjoys their own entertainment. Hockey is nothing more than entertainment and a big ole macho soap opera. Let me have my happy ending. Go watch another team for a few years lol

 

[Andy99]

Anaheim sucks, though. Is having Geno play a Getzlaf role really a contributor to a winning team? For the record I think Geno would be infinitely better at wing than Getzlaf would.

no Sid would be playing the Getzlaf role…Malkin would be Henrique lol…that’s a better center combo…anyway, we don’t have a Zegras forthcoming…that’s really what we need

 

[Victor Z]

You out to lunch if you think this boring hockey doesnt continue after Malkin and Letang leave if Sullivan stays.

3 guys aren't what's making this team boring. Its the terrible vanilla depth and the coach. Sure they may suck still next year but it doesnt have to be boring. Its the guy who would rather play constantly play simon, erod and Zar.

Where is the button or link which reads '+1,000,000 Likes' ?

When it's time for the rebuild, Hextall (if he's even still here) better understand this or he's next on the unemployment line. Hextall better not understand the need to simply toss Sully (if he's even still here) into the garbage, but also the need to NOT keep bringing in proven losers and over-the-hill mediocrities every offseason, and let the damn kids play.

They aren't ALL going to be busts, but many of them are (assuming "many" even get a fair chance) , and so you just grit your teeth and take your lumps while finding out who can play in the NHL and who can't.